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Remind me of what Gott has done so terribly wrong.
Next hires sometimes suck worse than their replacements. What if Archie didn’t make the tournament his first year in Raleigh? What then? There’d be too much broken glass around my house.
I’ll take his teams in Raleigh over any imaginary team in Raleigh.
I don’t disagree with you, but by the same token, that’s the same logic that lead to us being stuck with the Herbivore for 10 years.
After winning a national championship, ole Roy ended up in the
NIT the next season 09/10, and lost, with a team of inexperienced players, so at least Gott made the NCAA tourney, and who knows what could have been, if not for the collapse at the FT line with our 16 point lead. Even Louisville struggled to pull away from the St Louis team until the end.^ There will never be unanimous opinions on Gottfried but if we frame the argument to….well….we admit Gott is OKAY, but wouldn’t you rather have Archie??? That dude can recruit AND coach!! I think framing discussion that way is much more palatable to the average fan.
But really the opinions of the masses are negligible. I doubt Yow has the courage or foresight to make a splash that breaks social norms.
After reviewing Gott’s contract I’m convinced money should not be a deciding factor.
I think Gottfried could get a decent coaching job in a different conference (if he tried which he is legally obligated to do). Ironically he’d be an upgrade at just about any SEC school.
We aren’t parting ways with Gott after 3 NCAAs in three years. This was Yow’s hire and she’ll stick to her guns, for better or for worse. We will most certainly miss out on Archie (we already missed with Greg Marshall).
Gott is a fine coach and it looks like he’s going to put together pretty good teams each year. But I do get the sense we’re headed for some Herb debates quite soon, as other potential coaching candidates and peer schools soar past us.
Marquette and Ben Howland mutually interested. Link
Former UCLA coach Ben Howland spoke with Marquette officials this weekend about the school’s opening for a men’s basketball coach, multiple sources told CBSSports.com.
No offer has been extended. But Marquette is definitely interested — as CBSSports.com reported Friday.
Meantime, sources told CBSSports.com that Howland is eager to return to coaching, and that he holds the Marquette program in high regard. A return to the Big East at a school that cares deeply about basketball intrigues Howland, multiple sources told CBSSports.com.
Howland coached at Pittsburgh before UCLA.
He has made nine NCAA Tournaments, including three Final Fours, in his past 12 years as a head coach. Still, UCLA fired Howland last March — making him the first coach in history to ever be removed immediately after winning a regular-season title in a power conference.
Buzz Williams left Marquette for Virginia Tech on Friday.
The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and ESPN.com are both also reporting mutual interest between Marquette and Howland. A decision, one way or another, is expected this week.
OK….just to clarify. RE Coach G’s Contract.
His contract runs from April 4 until April 4. Therefore, a NEW calendar starts on April 4. Therefore, if he was terminated on April 4, 2014, his buyout or payout would be 3.0 Million ($750K BASE times 4 remaining years).
His Supplemental Salary is incorrect in the contract. He got a “raise” in Sept, 2012. Here is the OFFICAL excerpt from the Dr. Yow’s Press Release dated 9/21/2012.
” “Coach Gottfried and his family have been a welcome addition to the Wolfpack Family,” said director of athletics Deborah Yow. “His competitive and recruiting success has accelerated our vision of excellence in an impressive way. With his work ethic, attention to academics and sound coaching, we believe the future is bright for men’s basketball.” Gottfried’s annual salary remains at $750,000. His supplemental compensation was increased from $450,000 to $1.2 million, which moves him from ninth to third among the 12 ACC men’s basketball head coaches in annual guaranteed compensation. The term of his contract remains unchanged through April of 2018, after having been automatically extended two years by virtue of the Pack’s Sweet 16 appearance last March.
Under Gottfried’s guidance, the Wolfpack earned its first NCAA Tournament berth since 2006 and first Sweet 16 appearance since 2005. NC State’s 24 victories were the most by a Pack squad since 1988 and nine ACC wins marked the most in league play since 2006, tying the Pack for fourth in the final conference standings. Gottfried’s win total was second only to the legendary Everett Case’s 26 victories for Wolfpack coaches in their first season. The wins and his .667 winning percentage were among the nation’s best among first-year coaches.
“I’m very thankful to the board of trustees, chancellor Woodson and Debbie Yow,” said Gottfried. “I’m very excited about the future of NC State basketball and being a part of the Wolfpack Nation ”Gott’s record is
2012 – 24 – 13 & ACC 9 – 7
2013 – 24 – 11 & ACC 11 – 7
2014 – 22 – 14 & ACC 9 – 9
Total 70 – 38 (64.8%) & ACC 29 – 23 (55.8%) At Alabama he was
Total 210 – 131 (61.6%) & SEC 82 – 82 (50.3%)As to “making up the REVENUE”…..if you look at the 2013/14 Ticket brochure, the “average” upper would be around $360. Therefore, you would need 2100 MORE season tickets sold.
In 2013, the average attendance was around 75% (see the link….I did the math on a calculator…not in Excel)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_NC_State_Wolfpack_men’s_basketball_teamI can NOT get a handle on the TOTAL Season Tickets sold from the data….as I do not know if this is the “scanned” or sold tickets.
BUT, it would take a sizeable BUMP in ticket sales just to break even on Gott’s buyout. THAT is why the WPC and the AD do NOT threaten the high rollers who buy the lower levels and never bother to attend except for special games…..the ushers quietly bring down the 3rd level to the end zones to “improve” the looks of the place.
SO would a NEW coach bring in MORE fans? I do NOT know….if you look at the numbers in 2013 BEFORE we had some issues, CJ and Zo’s “draw” was NOT that great.
All this discussion of “What shoulda, coulda, woulda” seems to be off topic.
The idea of Shaka at WFU is intriguing….but bring Amaker in to coach “scholars” that can REALLY play BB so that he is in a better position to inherit Mikey’s job is something that makes a LOT of sense….and offers endless possibilities for speculation.
Archie would be a FOOL to jump this year. He needs two to three years of NCAA experience….THEN he can write his own ticket.
Remember Gott’s FIRST NCAA run at State. I was at Columbus and St. Louis and the fan spirit was as HIGH as I have ever seen it….well maybe not quite in 1974 and 1983….but it was GREAT.
GO PACK….
Archie would be a FOOL to jump this year.
That makes zero sense.
Shaka went to Kenyon (very good small liberal arts school) and graduated magna cum. His wife is a scholar and author. The guy is no dummy. Wake is a very good fit.
By the way, this marks the 6th year in a row Rick Barnes has missed the Sweet 16. Missed it altogether last year. Average.
Gott and staff are doing a terrific job. This season could have been a disaster yet it ended with an ACC POY and NCAA bid.
For perspective – the team Gott inherited was last in the ACC with a losing overall record. In 3 years he and his staff have done very well. Most impressed with player development – look at guys like Freeman and Washington.
Archie is doing well. Still a limited data set for analysis, but who thought he wouldn’t be a fine coach? On a similar note – keep an eye out for Levi Watkins.
Looks like we didn’t miss out on Turgeon. Marshall is great, that could have easily happened here. No worries – don’t think he would have done the same here. And if they lose to Kentucky today and flame out next year it is back to reality for Wichita. Do think he is great. Same w Beilein.
Shaka won’t go to Wake – lateral move at this point. Lesson learned is that luring good coaches away is tough since the rise of the mid-majors ($).
Shaka won’t go to Wake – lateral move at this point.
A10 to Tobacco Road isn’t lateral. Ask Buzz Williams (to Va Tech from the new Big East).
I’m guessing Amaker or Howland to Wake. Can’t see Shaka or Miller there. We want Wake better, but we don’t want to them too good. Good hire by VT. Not sure I’d want Buzz at State, but he may do well there. Not sure about BC.
Fire Gott?? C’MON MAN!! 3 straight NCAA tournaments. ACC POY. Semi final in ACC tournament. And BTW, we were predicted to finish 10th this year.
He ran with 2 transfers, 4 freshmen, 2 sophomores and a senior that averaged probably less than 3 mins a game in his college career. It was supposed to be our rebuilding year, I don’t see any other coaches in the nation can do it any better than Gott with this squad. We can’t write him off because one bad game, and to be honest, I think the coaches did the best they can. Missing FTs are on the players. My heart was broken after that game, I was sad that our season is over, but future is bright, WFN.Like I said in another thread, the coaching carousel season is going to be painful for me to watch if GT, WF and BC make coaching hires comparable to VPI. There are so many good to great candidates out there and they will likely make substantial improvement before their first practice. The more good coaches I see in this tourney the more it makes my heart ache to think we may have Herb2.0 (and I hate putting that on Gottfried, but that’s what I see). I can already see the divisiveness in the fan base starting to emerge.
I have never said that I want to fire GOTT and look for another coach. But I don’t think it’s crazy that many of us see this as his ceiling either. He did do a pretty good job with the youth that we have this year. But not much defense and lack of fundamentals are not something that is likely to change. He has been a head coach for a good amount of time now that it is reasonable to expect the same out of him based on his previous coaching style/abilities.
With that said, I also don’t think it’s crazy to want one of our own (who looks to be an excellent coach – just listen to him interview) back here coaching us as, what we would hope, a lifetime coach. GOTT is not that guy, but Archie could be. I agree that Yow wouldn’t do it, because GOTT was her guy (or at least 5th or 6th guy on the list) and because it goes against the social norm, but I would be most pleased if we could land Archie. Again, I don’t want to fire GOTT and look for another coach. I would be happy to fire GOTT only if it was because we were hiring Archie.
Marquette and Wake Forest have both reached out and expressed interest to VCU coach Shaka Smart, multiple sources told ESPN.
Coaches look around for “upgrade” jobs all the time. No reason why we shouldn’t keep our ears open for “upgrade” coaches. This is a big business, and that’s how big business works.
^ Good point. Upgrading is different than firing. I haven’t seen a single post mention Gott should be fired b/c he’s God awful like Lowe. It’s more like….uhhh….he ain’t Herb or Lowe, but he wasn’t quite what we hoped for….could we do better? Oh wait, there is an alumnus who appears to be a home run hire.
The “raise” Gott received in Supplemental salary is not payable upon termination – wisely done by Yow. Frankly he’s overly compensated (3rd highest paid coach pre-expansion).
My point stands that we could fire him for much cheaper than the “headline” payout. I would also expect him to land on his feet in a SEC job. If he doesn’t job-search (like post-Alabama where he went into broadcasting a.k.a. traveling around country and chilling in hotels….doing whatever it is you do w/ that lifestyle…..) then he’s not obligated to receive the buyout.
^ Mad props to Yow. That is an important clause that I would be surprised if it is vanilla language.
Ironically it would be incredibly cheap (maybe free??) to fire a “decent” coach than an awful coach.
Agreed we should be open to opportunities to upgrade but we also should be very wary. To my way of thinking now is not the time while others might disagree. All I know is this is not your Robinson teams, your Sendek teams or your Lowe teams.
Maybe we could trade up or just maybe that effort puts us in a situation like WF with Bzzz …Archie is not a no-brainier grand slam hire. Reasonable people can disagree on him being an upgrade. I have a certain level of conviction about him from a brief window.
If you have elite expectations for State basketball as I do, you may be more willing to gamble. Anyone believing Gott will turn us into an elite program hasn’t watched the same 3 seasons I have.
I wholeheartedly agree Gott’s an upgrade over Herb.
What people seem to forget about the Herb debate is that it started after FIVE seasons of mediocrity. The fact that he subsequently went to 5 tourneys is not really relevant. The divided fanbase is a result of those first five years, nothing that happened in the second five could have changed that, short of a title. Gott has started his tenure with three straight tourney appearances, 70 wins, a sweet 16, an ACC POY, etc. That is why reasonable folks like myself have a hard time understanding those that already are looking to move on. I am not convinced that we have reached the ceiling of what he is capable of, and I find the criticisms about defense and coaching styles to be pretty petty. We were an improved defensive team this year, and will be more improved next year now that these freshman bigs have a season under their belts. Last year and the year before, there was criticism about Gott’s short bench. This year we ran nine deep. So who is to say that these things are set in stone? Is there room for improvement, of course, and I’m sure that Gottfried knows that. Does Archie seem to be a promising coach catching fire at a small school? Sure. So did Herb. If Archie is smart, and I think he is, he’ll use his success to get a raise and stay where he is to try and build up a program so that when it comes time for him to move, he’ll have his choice of big time programs, not just jumping at the first big name program that throws money at him. If we have a vacancy at that time, we’ll make a play for him. But we don’t have a vacancy now, and I don’t think we should create one based on one good tournament run by a former player.
Good points all around in this thread. One can indeed reasonably disagree whether Arch is a sure-fire upgrade, and worth the risk of an out-of-the-box aggressive move. Other people whose sourcing I trust think Miller would still be available to us in a couple of years (the Dayton extension is GOOD for us that way, IMHO – and if Arch wants to come here, he very likely has an out clause in the contract for our job – he certainly would have leverage to negotiate that with Dayton, which he may not have had with a power conference job). So…more time to evaluate Arch and MG, as I do think it’s fair to say the book isn’t fully written with either.
I also definitely agree that MG is an improvement over HWSNBN. A “B” grade over 3 years is vastly preferable to a “B-” over 10. Esepcially since we don’t play a junk system that limits our tourney ceiling.
If you have elite expectations for State basketball as I do, you may be more willing to gamble. Anyone believing Gott will turn us into an elite program hasn’t watched the same 3 seasons I have.
You and I do not always agree but we certainly do agree on this statement.
I am not convinced that we have reached the ceiling of what he is capable of, and I find the criticisms about defense and coaching styles to be pretty petty
I can agree that we are not sure what Gott’s ceiling is though it is safe to say if he does not change what he has been doing then we are looking at his ceiling which leads into the discussion on defense. It is not petty because IMO that is the one thing that can change his ceiling. Until his teams learn to play decent fundamental defense we will forever be faced with years like this. I am not asking for UVA defense just acceptable defense.
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