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Roo’s writeup reminded me that I was watching the game, but actually missed the shot the first time around. As usual my “feed” was delayed, and I had the ESPN gamecast open in another window so I could see the score and read the description of what happened before I could see it. The initial play-by-play said that BJ scored the winning bucket, to which I thought “the hell?”.
So I kept my eyes on Anya during the inbound and completely missed Mav get the pass and make the bucket. đ
Funny pictures. Quite entertaining. Levity is a good thing.
Happy for the team that they got a win at home on Senior (Cat) night. It was nice that they got to celebrate together in what has been a very frustrating season (and I’m sure for them more than any fan).
As for the game itself, we needed a last second miracle, broken play (at least according to Mav himself he didn’t do what the play was, and it was for Barber), to beat the worst team in the last 30 years of the ACC at home. I think that sums it up.
The question is whether people think that game and this season are representative of the program. I think the whole thing boils down to record and our finishes in the ACC have gone 4th, 4th, 7th and now 13th. Looks like a trend to me.
That is a debate that will continue to rage on in the offseason with both camps making their case. It won’t matter as NC State is too risk averse to proactively manage this.
I think Yow “hate” is a combination of:
– Lack of progress in the revenue sports
– Predictable improvement in the non-revenue sports, which fans don’t really care about.
– The Reynolds project
– Gott’a raise / extension as well as the ones the football coordinators got after the “magical” 3 game winning streak
– Natural reflection after 5 years about where we stand
– the fact she’s been on the job 5 years. Almost all high profile leaders will have doubters at that point.
Makes sense to me.I don’t believe that good coaches “won’t work for her.” Any coach making 500k would jump at the chance to triple or quadruple that, regardless of boss. They all by nature pretty much have the ego and confidence to think they can handle an AD change. Let’s also be honest. If you make 3/4 times more than your boss, you’ve got way more juice than they do and you both know it.
As for the letter that was one of the biggest PR gaffes that I have seen at this level and profile in some time. It was so bad that I checked the email headers verifying its authenticity. It was awful and only signaled that things were terribly of the tracks. It tells me that Gott wasn’t a candidate at that time, that Yow probably feels like he bailed her out, and that those two or linked for the duration of her time here.
It tells me that Gott wasnât a candidate at that time, that Yow probably feels like he bailed her out, and that those two or linked for the duration of her time here
Bingo. The raise, the Reynolds project (a hall of fame for a school who hasn’t won anything in 30 years) and the letter are enough to give me pause about her decision making. And there is NO hope Gott is going anywhere any time soon. He is, proverbially, fat and happy.
The question is whether people think that game and this season are representative of the program. I think the whole thing boils down to record and our finishes in the ACC have gone 4th, 4th, 7th and now 13th.
I think there is another 7th place last year. Nonetheless there is a clear trend as the program has become completely Gott’s. He has done a decent job but I don’t think he has done anything especially noteworthy. There are definitely things he needs to improve on but he does not seem to either realize it or care (see point above). The hope when Gott was hired was 1) he learned and improved during his time off and 2) he would be able to recruit better players here. I just don’t see either of those things. Nor does it appear he is building a program. Every year we seem to start from scratch. Slow start and then the team improves and squeaks into the tournament. Then we have this year. What a dumpster fire. I don’t understand how any coach can let a year like this happen. We are bottom dwellers. This is all Gott’s team, his recruits, his coaching, his system.
He’s not going anywhere but we see his ceiling and we see his floor. Slightly higher ceiling than HWSNBN and lower floor.
As for the letter that was one of the biggest PR gaffes that I have seen at this level and profile in some time…It was awful and only signaled that things were terribly of the tracks. It tells me that Gott wasnât a candidate at that time, that Yow probably feels like he bailed her out, and that those two or linked for the duration of her time here.
I strongly agree with most of this and it pretty-well summarizes my feelings and why I don’t want to see Yow run another BB search. The last BB search was so bad (just being better than Fowler is not nearly good enough) that I don’t want to watch another one.
But I won’t go so far as to say that she will coast into retirement with Gott if he has more years like this one. This year was so bad that I really don’t think that she will sit around and watch this level of suck continue through 2019.
When I googled “debbie yow contract” to get the correct contract duration, I found an article from N&O in 2015 when she got an extension/raise:
There was more to the job and reaching that goal than she originally thought, Yow said Friday, but she was also proud of where the program is.
Seven of N.C. Stateâs 23 varsity teams have produced top-25 finishes thus far this academic year and the Wolfpack ranks No. 26 in the latest Directorâs Cup standings. Not that Yow is ready to claim any kind of victory.
âI feel like weâre still a work in progress,â Yow said. âWe donât know where weâll finish this year, but itâs going to be better and weâre making progress.â
And to Chancellor Randy Woodsonâs approval, the progress in the athletics department has not come at a cost on the academic side. N.C. State has posted its highest scores in both the Academic Progress Report and the Federal Graduate Rate.
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/article18772455.html#storylink=cpy
I think that it’s beyond doubt that Yow has brought mostly positive changes to NC State. But the last BB coaching search was not one of her high points.
Side note to all of this…Woodson’s current contract runs through 2019 too.
http://www.wral.com/foundation-funded-bonus-makes-woodson-unc-s-highest-paid-executive/15034140/
It does. But her contract is VERY unlikely to go beyond 2019.
Again, IF MG is terminated, it would be in March 2017. Who in their right mind is going to sign up for a situation where their boss will definitely change in 2 years?
Yes, they will definitely be making more money…but who’s to say where said coach will be in the rebuild process? New ADs come in with their own ideas, and their own lists of people in mind for key jobs. Or even beyond that…said coach and AD could just not like one another. Is Woodson going to be able to convince an Archie Miller-ish candidate that he will have de facto approval rights over the successor AD?
BJD – AD’s don’t have much pull compared to a successful coach. And I think your point is that after 2 years, a coach won’t have had time to develop his program – and that’s fair.
However, again, I would be worried about hiring a coach who is worried about that. AD’s come and go. This isn’t professional sports where the owner’s regularly force out successful candidates. There is a power gap and the AD can screw up more things than they can fix.
. Who in their right mind is going to sign up for a situation where their boss will definitely change in 2 years?
I could argue this from either side. For a successful coach, it doesn’t really matter who the AD is. And no coach is going to last long with mediocrity (unless Fowler finds another job) so it may not be a big deal. But it is important to know who you are working for and the unknown could easily complicate the coaching search.
But I just don’t see Woodson or Yow putting up with this level of suck for three more years.
. Who in their right mind is going to sign up for a situation where their boss will definitely change in 2 years?
I could argue this from either side. For a successful coach, it doesnât really matter who the AD is. And no coach is going to last long with mediocrity (unless Fowler finds another job) so it may not be a big deal. But it is important to know who you are working for and the unknown could easily complicate the coaching search.
But I just donât see Woodson or Yow putting up with this level of suck for three more years.
Because it won’t stay at this level of suck. It will be a more palatable level of suck. It will be a defendable level of suck.
But we will still have ZERO titles of any kind.It’s one of those “thumb on the scales” things. When a candidate has similar opportunities (or a tough decision as to whether to stay put), the AD uncertainty is a tiebreaker that most certainly would NOT work in our favor. It’s just a bad f-cking idea, not proper management.
I still believe that NC State has a lot to offer, and can be a truly special place for the right coach. But note the “can be” and note the cold reality of recent experience. We can’t expect the top dogs to fall at our feet and ignore warning signs. We have to SELL NC State, and we have to make sure we put our own best foot forward.
Otherwise, we will just sign onto another mistake.
So what do we do? Sign in until we hire a new AD? Do we force Yow to resign?
I am a big believer that you can over think and over complicate things. Like others on this site, I think our adminstration needs to operate under the assumption that next year’s decision won’t be an easy one that will be cheeredd by the media.
The right time to make a move if we have a good candidate like Arch locked up is now. They’ll get 3 full seasons where the AD and the Chancellor aren’t going anywhere. That’s an eternity in college sports.
Many of these guys aren’t thinking more than a year or so out anyways because change is so constant. There was some recent stat that a ridiculous percent of D1 basketball players that stay 4 years won’t end up playing for the coach that they signed with. Why should they? All they really need as a head man is that one big contract ($2M over 4-5 years) and they’re set for life.
What needs to be done is painfully obvious. I don’t think NC State has the intestinal fortitude to do it. I also think that Yow’s a Gott fan and won’t make that move for personal reasons.
So what do we do?
Now? Nothing. Gott has done more than enough to show some patience for one bad year. Other than the basketball coaching search, I’m not aware of any missteps on Yow’s part. Don’t forget that Woodson rejected a committee’s recommendation to replace Fowler and contacted Yow directly. There is no reason to think that he will replace Debbie without real justification….not just our speculation.
Miss the NCAAT next year and no improvement in recruiting? Time to make a change.
But State will undoubtedly end up somewhere in the gray area with no easy path forward.
Heâs not going anywhere but we see his ceiling and we see his floor. Slightly higher ceiling than HWSNBN and lower floor.
Lower floor? In Herb’s 5th season, State was 13-16 and 5-12 in the ACC.
No VA – I don’t think you make a change this year. But like I said, I expect us to go to the tourney, probably seeded somewhere between a 7-11 seed.
We could have great talent and depth. Unfortunately, if history is any indicator, we won’t use that talent to get after it on defense or throw a ton of different player combinations at our opposition.
But make no mistake, the team will be capable of having a great year in conference and making a deep run in the tournament. If it does neither of those things or if defections reduce our talent level to where the bubble represents another great coaching effort, then well…
No VA â I donât think you make a change this year. But like I said, I expect us to go to the tourney, probably seeded somewhere between a 7-11 seed.
We could have great talent and depth. Unfortunately, if history is any indicator, we wonât use that talent to get after it on defense or throw a ton of different player combinations at our opposition.But make no mistake, the team will be capable of having a great year in conference and making a deep run in the tournament. If it does neither of those things or if defections reduce our talent level to where the bubble represents another great coaching effort, then wellâŚ
I dont see where people are getting this. We are a 5 win team and we are losing the best player from it. Keeping the same players essentially, adding nobody in the frontcourt that is already pretty bad and only adding an injured 5 star pg, which is notoriously the hardest position to learn. Yeah I know we get Dorn and hopefully Henderson back but call me skeptical in their ability to contribute to make next years team a lock to make the tourney.
Chop’s vision represents my best-case scenario. Then 92owen lists all the reasons that the actual season could fall far short of that. It wouldn’t shock me if next year’s team fell short of the NCAAT again.
If they don’t then gott should be fired. And not they don’t that would actually be an easy decision. It would also be an easy decision if we had a great regular season and a good NCAA tournament.
Like I said, I don’t expect an easy decision.
No VA â I donât think you make a change this year. But like I said, I expect us to go to the tourney, probably seeded somewhere between a 7-11 seed.
We could have great talent and depth. Unfortunately, if history is any indicator, we wonât use that talent to get after it on defense or throw a ton of different player combinations at our opposition.But make no mistake, the team will be capable of having a great year in conference and making a deep run in the tournament. If it does neither of those things or if defections reduce our talent level to where the bubble represents another great coaching effort, then wellâŚ
I dont see where people are getting this. We are a 5 win team and we are losing the best player from it. Keeping the same players essentially, adding nobody in the frontcourt that is already pretty bad and only adding an injured 5 star pg, which is notoriously the hardest position to learn. Yeah I know we get Dorn and hopefully Henderson back but call me skeptical in their ability to contribute to make next years team a lock to make the tourney.
You say you don’t see where it is coming from, then you provide the answer. Adding Smith, Dorn, and Henderson and losing only Cat would provide a nice rotation:
PG – Smith, Dorn
SG – Henderson, Dorn
SF – Cody, Caleb, Rowan
PF – Abu, Freeman, Cody
C – Anya, FreemanWe go from 1 guard to 3 guards in the rotation, giving us 3 guards, 3 wings, and 3 bigs. We have 6 upperclassmen and just 1 freshman in a rotation of 9 players. And that rotation does not account for Kirk, in the event that he improves enough to see the floor.
Yes, someone unexpected (i.e., someone besides Cat) could leave, but it is also true that there could be late addition(s) to the roster, either via additional recruit(s) or senior/juco transfer(s).
The above is a likely scenario, and it’s a good one. Barring injuries like Henderson’s this year, that roster should be a lock for a NCAA tournament bid, and shouldn’t be on the bubble getting there.
What Tau said. Plus I kinda think that even Cat doesn’t know he’s gone like so many do.
The kid has matured, and with relaxed rules of declaration, he’s going to be armed with more knowledge to decide than anyone since the time of man.
…Well since underclassman departure, anyway.
Let me say something before this thread has completely devolved into useless drivel and baseless accusations.
Why should this one be any different?
Your opinions are bad.
?
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