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Ran across this tweet yesterday that I thought was interesting. Has Russell Wilson ever used the phrase “kicked out” re: Tom O’Brien before? http://t.
[See the full post at: Over time, Wilson reveals more about situation with TOB]* Russell Wilson chose to play minor league baseball and did not participate in spring practice despite the coaches (reasonably) setting a parameter that whomever was going to be QB in the fall needed to be in spring practice and working out with the team in the summer.
The fundamental issue is that TOB changed the rules on Wilson. Wilson played for the N.C. State baseball team from 2008-2010 and played summer ball in at least 2009-2010, yet he was still the starting QB at State each of those years, and a damn good one at that.
In 2008, Wilson played baseball for State in the spring (64 game season), and he was State’s starting QB that fall and was 1st team All ACC.
In 2009, Wilson played baseball for State in the spring (56 game season) and summer ball for the Gastonia Grizzlies of the Coastal Plain League (seasons typically 27-30 games). He was State’s starting QB that fall and was one of the best QBs in the country..
In 2010, Wilson played baseball for State in the spring (62 game season) and played 32 games in Class A ball in the summer. He was State’s starting QB that fall and was one of the best QBs in the country.
In 2011, he played 61 games in Class A ball across spring and summer. He was Wisconsin’s starting QB that fall and was one of the best QBs in the country.
But, Wilson wanted to have his cake and eat it, too by playing minor league baseball while seemingly expecting the coaches (whose livelihood and income are based on their football performance, not Russell Wilson’s baseball career) to sit around and wait for him.
He expected them to do what they had done throughout his career at State to that point. How is that unreasonable?
If the coaches had ‘held the spot’ for Wilson, the set of options in front of us INCLUDED a highly probably situation where Wilson NEVER PLAYED FOOTBALL AGAIN AND MIKE GLENNON TRANSFERRED. How would that have sat with all the people who criticize the decision in hindsight?
I am one who criticized the decision at the time, not just in hindsight. Of course, it looks a lot worse in hindsight, I’ll grant you that.
With Wilson in 2011, State could have won the ACC. If that meant Glennon leaving and the team suffering at QB in 2012, so be it. It would have been well worth it.
You act like TOB was forced into the decision. I completely disagree. TOB had supposedly built the team up over time to be poised for top level success in 2011 and 2012. I think he arrogantly thought he didn’t need Wilson on the team any more to achieve top level success, in part because he had another Matt Ryan on the bench and in part because he supposedly had a loaded team. We all know how that turned out. Glennon was not Matt Ryan, and the team TOB had built didn’t live up to the hype. But it might have lived up to the hype in 2011 with Wilson under center.
Your article facts may be accurate but the caliber of QB Wilson was DEMANDS priority for him to come back with welcome arms no matter the circumstances. The guy’s game did not suffer one bit from missing spring/summer practices and he would have done just fine. D*ck head O’Brien and his sweet little baby Bible were salivating for the opportunity to move “their” quarterback into the system. People can argue the facts, opinions from TOB’s point of view and the typical State fans point of view. As much as I can humbly agree your points (the author) I know in the back of my head no other program in america would have ran off, yes ran off a high caliber QB like Wilson other than TOB and NC State. This is still a conversation for a reason…besides, playing with Glennon or playing with a 4th stringer…..we didn’t win sh*t either way really.
Tau837 hits the nail on the head, nothing else needs to be said…”I think he arrogantly thought he didn’t need Wilson”….exactly right.
I understand both sides of the coin to an extent. Bottom line is RW was an STAR QB, Student, and representative of NCSU. He was a great 2 sport athlete that enjoyed being here because he could do both well. So yeah he does deserve a little more flexibility making a “life” decision as someone who was still just a young man. I know TOB was trying to make the right decision for the future with the unknown of RW even coming back. Either way, everyone and their brother knows TOB wanted a Glennon style QB. Heck RW last season under TOB was a little tough because TOB tried to keep him in the pocket way too much. Not taking anything away from Glennon (who is a great QB) but RW was not a typical QB for TOB’s game. Problem was RW was good enough to make the offense match him and not the other way around.
Slice it how you want but TOB’s decision NOT to be more flexible than “normal” did cost him. So I guess TOB was fair but sometimes you need to weigh other factors (again RW was an exceptional student athlete and 2 sport player) such as the ability for a kid to make up his mind. Glennon may have transferred in the end but I don’t think he Glennon was calling the shots here. TOB wanted a pocket passer anyway and he liked Giraffe’s better than the Cheetah.
Water under the bridge…Most all of us would have loved to see RW call his last college destination Raleigh. My guess is now so would have TOB.
Bad decision or not, hindsight or not, it’s pointless to play the what if game at this point in time.
Maybe we win the ACC in ’11 with Wilson? OK.
But just maybe the overall results in ’11 would have been worse without Glennon’s arm in the miracle UMd comeback win? Or maybe Wilson has an off day and doesn’t beat Clemson?
I’m not in a position to second guess the situation or which of them was the wrongerer of the two. But to me, the difference of playing college ball for State vs playing A ball (poorly) is a potentially significant one.
The whole issue has become a classic time machine episode in which one change could seriously —- up the future. RW has a reason to be bitter but would he vote to change what went down. Wisconsin did more to raise his profile in one year than playing for 3 years at State. That “what if” 4th year would have had to be a monster year to match the Rose Bowl. One round or pick earlier or later in the NFL draft and who knows the outcome. Glennon got to play for the staff that recruited him and with the players he grew accustomed to over 3 years. How does he vote? Transfer to an entirely new school and football program and maybe be drafted higher. I think MG stands pat. How does TOB vote? Who cares? If TOB got fired one year earlier or one year later then we might not have DD.
I am a biased and selfish State fan and so I will be ever fascinated by the what if results of a fourth year led by Wilson. I suspect that the players around RW and the defense in particular would have let him down in the end. IIRC, 3 or 4 games where the defense was awful. I am happy for Wilson and Glennon as they both made it to the next level.
Thanks for the summer baseball history as I have never seen that information presented in that format.
I’m in total agreement with the article in regard to this issue. I’ve heard there are some damning facts in regard to TOB’s behavior, but it still doesn’t change the basic facts. Russell was not tearing up the world at the time he departed the program. His most promising season was the tail-end of his freshman year, and a number of eggs were laid on the field during the next two years. It was obvious that missing spring practice while chasing some secondary dream was not in the football programs best interest. No way in hell did he appear to be on the track that has played out, and I don’t believe if he’d have stayed in the program, it would have played out the same, regardless.
Unfortunately, the wild card in this situation was the ridiculously high position in the MLB draft; which was in no way warranted, but offered at least some shot of a career in athletics where it appeared, real time, it wasn’t going to happen.
I’m a much bigger fan of RW that TOB, but it’s in spite of this, not because of it. For those who think somehow State’s season would have mirrored Wisky’s otherwise are the delusional ones here. Where ever TOB may reside these days, Russell should be blowing a kiss every day in that direction due to the way this thing broke out for him.
For us, well we’re simply NC State.
So…nobody disputes that Russell Wilson had NOT committed to play football until the summer before the 2011 season?
Tau — you ask “what changed” after we let him play baseball the previous three seasons?
I think the answer is pretty clear — what changed was Wilson’s commitment to come back to the football program and play quarterback the following fall. He was on campus at State (not getting paid) his first three years and he was committed to come back. In the spring of 2011 he was off campus making money in minor league ball AND had NOT COMMITTED TO COME BACK TO SCHOOL.
Again….someone correct me if that fact is not true. But, the guy had not committed to even play football in 2011. How do you effectively kick Glennon off the team for the next TWO years for a guy that isn’t even committed to play?
Yea, I can see both sides, but if we were able to put ourselves back in the situation, I think you have to role the dice on Glennon. It’s very possible the exact opposite could have happened. Glennon leaves for a program that fits him perfectly, he plays immediately and racks up two incredible years. Goes on to win a SuperBowl ring. Wilson comes back after no spring practice and we’re okay. Wilson’s a backup on someone’s roster right now with a lot of potential.
It’s all mute at this point, anyway.
Hillary Clinton – “AT THIS POINT WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE ANYWAY”. Or something like that. I got the hollowing part right anyway.
Russell was not tearing up the world at the time he departed the program. His most promising season was the tail-end of his freshman year, and a number of eggs were laid on the field during the next two years.
Wilson was 1st team All ACC as a redshirt freshman in 2008. He played well but a big part of that was lack of other strong candidates.
In 2009, he led the ACC in TD passes and was #4 in the nation in that category. He also completed an NCAA record streak of passes without an interception that dated back to his freshman season, and was 3rd in the ACC in passing efficiency. He also was 4th in passing yards in 2nd in total offense.
In 2010, he led the ACC in passing yards, total offense, and TD passes, while also finishing 7th in the conference with 9 rushing TDs (!).
Of course he wasn’t great in every game, but you are giving him way too little credit here.
In 2009, the team was 3-1 in games in which the defense allowed fewer than 30 points and 2-6 in games in which the defense allowed 30+. Not really Wilson’s fault. Similar story in 2010, when the team was 0-3 in games in which the defense allowed 30+ points and 9-1 in the other games.
For those who think somehow State’s season would have mirrored Wisky’s otherwise are the delusional ones here.
I haven’t seen anyone suggest State in 2011 would have “mirrored” Wisconsin’s 2011 season. I have suggested that State could have won the ACC with Wilson. State was 8-5 (4-4) in 2011 with Glennon starting, and Wilson was a better QB. Looking back at the game scores from that season, Wilson could have been the difference in the Wake and BC games, probably not in the Cincy and FSU games, which were blowouts. Could he have been the difference in the Georgia Tech game in addition to BC and Wake? If so, State would have been in the ACC championship game. No one can know for sure how it would have worked out, but it is possible State could have won the ACC with Wilson.
So…nobody disputes that Russell Wilson had NOT committed to play football until the summer before the 2011 season?
Tau — you ask “what changed” after we let him play baseball the previous three seasons?
I think the answer is pretty clear — what changed was Wilson’s commitment to come back to the football program and play quarterback the following fall.
I disagree this is clear. We don’t know what he told TOB or when. We don’t even know how much TOB asked/pressed him for a commitment. IMO TOB got what he wanted and used Wilson’s “lack of commitment” as cover for it.
We do know that TOB announced Wilson was released from his scholarship on April 29, 2011. Does that indicate that TOB waited as long as he could and tried everything he could to bring Wilson back? I don’t think so.
He was on campus at State (not getting paid) his first three years and he was committed to come back. In the spring of 2011 he was off campus making money in minor league ball
Wilson got drafted in June of 2010, and the Rockies paid him a $200K signing bonus, then he played 32 games in Class A. So he was “making money in minor league ball” in 2010, yet he came back and played QB for State in fall 2010, and played really well in doing it. You seem to be trying to emphasize that “playing minor league ball” or “making money” changed from 2010 to 2011, but it didn’t.
AND had NOT COMMITTED TO COME BACK TO SCHOOL.
Again….someone correct me if that fact is not true. But, the guy had not committed to even play football in 2011.
You are just repeating yourself. You already said this stuff earlier in the same post, as I addressed above.
You also seem to be KIND OF UPSET ABOUT IT.
How do you effectively kick Glennon off the team for the next TWO years for a guy that isn’t even committed to play?
That would be Glennon’s choice. TOB was chartered with making the best choice for the football program, and IMO he didn’t. Simple as that.
At the end of the 2011 campaigne, TOB was asked,and I quote:
“Coach. Do you think Russell Wilson will return?”
O’Brien: ” I don’t see why he would. He has nothing more to prove here.”
That, folks, hit me the moment it was uttered. Period…End of story.
Tau, all things being equal, I would have loved to have Russell back his senior year, however it didn’t happen and I’m not sure there were any obvious losers in the deal. The 2010 team finished 9-4, won a bowl game, the 2011 went 8-5 and won and won a bowl game. At the time I thought that Russell may have made the difference in the Wake game, but nothing else. Also, the Pack Nation was pretty stoked going into the 2012 season off the momentum of the previous season. Didn’t work out so well, but should not revise reality of the moment.
Russell’s last season could have been a special year, but he pretty much got outplayed by such luminaries as Tyrod Taylor, Dominique Davis, Kyle Parker, and Danny O’Brien, the latter being the annual choke to UMd in the march to the ACC championship. Russell couldn’t shake the NCS curse of mediocrity anymore than Philip or anyone else could when it came to winning the really big game.
I have no ill will against Russell, and I root for his success in the future, and throw out all the trumped stats you want, but I had no problem with this decision at the time and I have none with it now.
Actually, it made us the laughing stock of the nation to this day. We’re the ones who ran RW off. Still hear it all the time.
Wilson is the most overrated QB in the NFL. Revisionist history that he was worth gambling to give up Glennon for two years. He wasn’t even the best QB in the ACC during his tenure. The average fan has horrendous analytical judgement. Hindsight bias – exacerbated only because he has a super bowl ring – plays a large role. Anyone remember him blowing the game at Maryland? We could have made the ACC championship had we only beat a bad Maryland team.
this…”ran off”…rant will reverberate with recruits.
I doubt it. The fanbase is pretty vocal about loving Wilson, and O’Brien isn’t our coach anymore so….
Gosh, I’ve never thought, or heard, or read about this topic – NOT.
Please drop this dead horse topic, NC State fans.
DEAD HORSE!
“WTNY, thank you for The moment of Sanity…this stuff is so old news. We all (supposedly) love our Wolfpack but these posts seem to spend a lot of time on ridiculous “what if” scenarios. Folks – grow up, type something that has some meaning and some relevance, and drop old news. Nobody’s interested. Really.
I remember RW splitting time with spring practice and baseball while at State, one year leaving early from the Spring game. That wasn’t the case in 2011. That said, I think things worked out well for him and he knows it. He still has a sore spot for TOB however and that is understandable.
I like RW and enjoyed watching him play – still do. But this argument is ridiculous…. Even RW didn’t know if he was coming back to college at all when it was time for the coaching staff to put in an offense. RW was waiting for his batting average to come up. Had he hit better, he never would have come back to college at all. No one kicked him out of Raleigh. The only quasi-argument in this thread is that TOB should have known he would play BB until ultimately choosing to yet again be one of the “best QBs in the country”. If that’s the case then RW should have ALSO known by that time that TOB wouldn’t make exceptions for anyone – including him. RW is certainly way more likable than TOB but that doesn’t mean he is always right. In any event, it worked out for him – if it hadn’t then no reporter would be asking him those questions.
But, correct me if I have my timeline and factset incorrect:
Incorrect and incomplete. I’ve posted specifics several times, some simply choose to ignore or not believe.
Whatever, to each their own. But whatever the story you choose to believe, if you assume everything you read or hear in the media is the true story and the whole story, sorry, you’re a fool.
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