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Talent alone doesn’t win games but let’s go there since you brought it up. How many successes with bringing in talent will it take for Gottfried to win? 3? 5? 10? What level of talent are we talking about here? Immediate impact 5 stars (top 10)? I seriously would like to know because everyone raves about the STAHS he’s brought in but it hasn’t been enough. How many will it take to win and what will it take to bring them in in order to win? He’s not a fresh face anymore, recruits have a recent history on him to make decisions.
Exactly my thoughts. I keep hearing that Gottfried is a great recruiter. What have we got to show for it? We are in year 5 and things aren’t looking so good.
I’ve been happy with Gott’s tenure here to this point with the exception being the seemingly high attrition rate of his teams each year. We’ve got a phenom PG coming in next year. I’d say if you can’t “see an upward trajectory” from this point then that means you’re just not looking for one.
Let’s take a shot in the dark and say Barber leaves after this season and Gottfried doesn’t land any more immediate impact players. I know, I’m really stretching the limits of reality on this. Just ask Cat what it’s like to be a phenom PG, alone, on this team.
Just ask Cat what it’s like to be a phenom PG, alone, on this team.
Right now, I’d venture he’s loving it. More so than at any other point in his NC State career.
pakfanistan, actually I have +18 data points to infer from, he’s simply only had 3 jobs. Nice try though.
Oh, because you said career, and then talked about it like this,
He either hasn’t been around long enough and gets out while up or he peaked and declined until fired.
Which pretty clearly references Murray St. and Alabama, so I naturally made the connection to the number of jobs he’s had.
And then you said,
. He starts out average and progressively gets worse season after season
He got better each year at Murray St. He was up and down at Alabama, he’s bookended the last four years with S16s here….
I just can’t make your assertions match up with “18” data points.
We are not going to change your mind if you that’s your opinion. I don’t care how many f”cking data points you have. I am going by what he has done since he has been at NCSU. Now that doesn’t carry much either because we all know past performance doesn’t guarantee future performance. Good or bad. Yeah you can infer and project but that means you have to make some assumptions.
I prefer to see the season play out and good or bad make my assertions. Not in December.
We are not going to change your mind if you that’s your opinion. I don’t care how many f”cking data points you have. I am going by what he has done since he has been at NCSU. Now that doesn’t carry much either because we all know past performance doesn’t guarantee future performance. Good or bad. Yeah you can infer and project but that means you have to make some assumptions.
I prefer to see the season play out and good or bad make my assertions. Not in December.
No reason not to talk about the team’s performance now. That’s what this board was set up to do.
You know full well what I mean. Don’t be thick. I mean all this Gott has already peaked, We have to start looking for new coach, You think Miller will come?, etc.
pakfanistan, actually I have +18 data points to infer from, he’s simply only had 3 jobs. Nice try though.
Oh, because you said career, and then talked about it like this,
He either hasn’t been around long enough and gets out while up or he peaked and declined until fired.
Which pretty clearly references Murray St. and Alabama, so I naturally made the connection to the number of jobs he’s had.
And what exactly else are we supposed to look at when evaluating a coach? I noticed you didn’t dispute anything that I said was factual, just the manner in which I said it.
And then you said,
. He starts out average and progressively gets worse season after season
He got better each year at Murray St. He was up and down at Alabama, he’s bookended the last four years with S16s here….
I just can’t make your assertions match up with “18” data points.
Congratulations on winning the Award for quoting someone completely out of context. You can pick up your award in the women’s restroom next to the mail room.
If you read the previous sentence I was talking about his defense. Not only that you cut off the last part of the sentence you were quoting that shows I referred to W/L results following the decline of defense. As you already pointed out there were only 2 previous jobs prior to State, one of which he left after just a few years, and the other was an extended stay at Alabama. I assumed people could follow my thoughts without having to spell out every single detail, I was wrong.
If this season continues to be terribad, then it puts lots of pressure on next season. It is what it is.
Many of us don’t have the pitchforks out because MG has shown flashes of spark that we haven’t seen in a coach since V. That said…just flashes. Nothing has ignited. And might not ever. So, the second part is indeed VERY germane, do we think NC State is in a good place right now to be in the market for a coaching search (when we have a “B+” in hand)?
Right now, I say “hell no.” If this season really goes down the toilet, we don’t get any more impact talent to go alongside Smith next season, and we suck again, sure I will re-calculate. But I’m not going to take each of those chains in the link as a given, that just seems foolish. And we would have to do some MAJOR groundwork PRIOR to starting a coaching search (our AD is too close to retirement to make the next hire, IMHO), so it’s a larger undertaking that requires a fuckton of effort and a fuckton of money and a fuckton of dominoes to slot right in order to improve our situation.
So…I’m not going to suggest blowing things up because I’m annoyed, even though I surely am. MG’s not to the level of HWSNBN, Amato, or TOB. He’s still working extremely hard, and creatively. He’s not burning bridges or alienating people that would create a “clear and present danger” if something isn’t done to staunch the bleeding immediately.
I don’t care how many f”cking data points you have.
This is why I come to SFN, for the intellectual discussions.
If this season continues to be terribad, then it puts lots of pressure on next season. It is what it is.
Here is where I am at with the program. Cat is gone after this year, 100% adios. Thats written in stone. If history holds true we will probably lose at least one of either Abu, Anya or the twins. Thats how its worked so far. We have Dorn coming but excuse me if I dont put a ton of hope on a UNCC transfer.
Dennis smith has already told the coaches he is one and done regardless. So we are now relying on a freshman to carry the team from the word go, not to mention its going to take some time for him to get his sea legs. So I see 2016 as a bubble team at best with no other recruits on the horizon and 2017 as the total rebuild. A la Coach DD 3 years ago.
years ago. This is Gotts program, this is what he has built in 5 years time. Add to the fact that his teams have never been fundamentally sound enough to beat other squads straight up and we have a recipe for disaster.Now you know how Yow is going to spin this. NCAA 4 years with 2 sweet 16’s. Thats the cred she is going to lean on to try and calm the masses. Some will agree with her but others like myself will look at where he is finishing in the conference and how his teams play throughout the entire year.
And in the meantime, our homegrown alum that is killing it in Dayton will be snatched up by a bigger program and he will be out of the mix the next time a search happens just like his big brother. Just think if Fowler wasnt so much of a retard we could have had S Miller as our coach. He wanted to coach, he begged for an interview and we all know the rest of the story.
You know full well what I mean. Don’t be thick. I mean all this Gott has already peaked, We have to start looking for new coach, You think Miller will come?, etc.
So you just want anyone who disagrees with your opinion to just shut up.
Hardly a mature notion.Cat is gone after this year, 100% adios. Thats written in stone.I keep reading people saying this. Is there any particular reason to believe this? Like, is there inside information about Cat that he’s already decided? Cause just from the outside looking in, it’s far from a foregone conclusion to me. He’s not anywhere close to a first round draft pick at this point, and maybe not even a second rounder. If he really wants an NBA career, he’d be better off trying to have a Jerian Grant-esque senior year and winning scouts over.
Are we really ready to blow up the place? I’ve seen some good thing and some bad things but I have seen nothing that comes near matching Sloan or V. Troubled I am but not ready to start again from the Les level (and yes Les took one for the school and that is something I’ll always appreciate).
If this year turns into a dumpster fire maybe I recalculate but so far I see a team I like to watch.To me it’s pretty clear that Trevor Lacey leaving last year was unexpected even by Gott. That’s the one thing about Gott that has me worried is his players leaving early and/or transferring. In my opinion that has been without a doubt the BIGGEST factor that has dampened his results here, and especially this season. Not the defense, not the X’s and O’s on offense, not the recruiting, not the friendship between Yow and Gott.
He was fully expecting Lacey to be here this year and I can guarantee you we’d be having talks of how high of a seed we could get in the NCAA tournament rather than bickering about his records at Bama and Murray State.
Cat is gone after this year, 100% adios. Thats written in stone.I keep reading people saying this. Is there any particular reason to believe this? Like, is there inside information about Cat that he’s already decided? Cause just from the outside looking in, it’s far from a foregone conclusion to me. He’s not anywhere close to a first round draft pick at this point, and maybe not even a second rounder. If he really wants an NBA career, he’d be better off trying to have a Jerian Grant-esque senior year and winning scouts over.
He was brutally close to leaving last year. He has a little girl that he has made comments to others that he “needs to support”
I think all thinks considered at the rate he is playing now he will probably feel he is a first round at best and at worst can easily go to Europe. There is no way he is back next year.
To me it’s pretty clear that Trevor Lacey leaving last year was unexpected even by Gott. That’s the one thing about Gott that has me worried is his players leaving early and/or transferring. In my opinion that has been without a doubt the BIGGEST factor that has dampened his results here, and especially this season. Not the defense, not the X’s and O’s on offense, not the recruiting, not the friendship between Yow and Gott.
He was fully expecting Lacey to be here this year and I can guarantee you we’d be having talks of how high of a seed we could get in the NCAA tournament rather than bickering about his records at Bama and Murray State.
We were a bubble team last year? How can you say we would be talking about seeds?
Also, +1 to everything BJD said.. not to mention we’d certainly lose the highest rated PG in NC State history next season if we were so dumb as to fire Gott after this year.
I do not think we are a good basketball team this year. Can Gott work his magic and get us in again? Very doubtful this season. The ACC is absolutely loaded. We’re going to lose, A LOT, in conference. And right now all we have is a win over LSU, who has totally tanked. So yea, in trouble this year.
Which makes next year critically important. Go two years without wearing the dancing shoes and your program becomes much more difficult to sell.
I don’t know whether Yow would pull the trigger so close to retirement. In fact, these turn of events could actually accelerate her decision.
We have to let the season play out and see who leaves.
Who said anything about blowing up the program? I hate to break peoples bubbles but firing a coach is not akin to 1991 and self sanctioning the program into oblivion. Guess what? Other schools have done this phenomenal thing called upgrading by being proactive before. Just as there’s no guarantee we hire the “next great coach” there’s no guarantee the next guy is going to be the second coming of Les or Sid. No one said anything about firing on a whim either. Smart AD’s have a short list already prepared in case they need to fire or replace a coach who has left. Do we have a smart AD? I have no earthly idea but replacing coaches is part of her job description too.
How many times have wise members on this site said you never make a coaching decision based on incoming recruits?
We were a bubble team last year? How can you say we would be talking about seeds?
Almost didn’t even answer this because it’s a ridiculous question, but I will just for you in case you honestly don’t understand. We would have Cat playing at this level (a level that is BETTER than last year) and we would have an actual 2 guard in Lacey who would also very likely be playing even better than last year which would take even more pressure off Cat. This improvement that you dismiss would be due having Lacey back another year experienced.
We were a bubble team last year? How can you say we would be talking about seeds?
Almost didn’t even answer this because it’s a ridiculous question, but I will just for you in case you honestly don’t understand. We would have Cat playing at this level (a level that is BETTER than last year) and we would have an actual 2 guard in Lacey who would also very likely be playing even better than last year which would take even more pressure off Cat. This improvement that you dismiss would be due having Lacey back another year experienced.
But yet history has shown, especially here at NCSU that Gotts teams no matter how talented live on the bubble.
Not to mention we were a #8 seed… if you call that being on the bubble.
But yet history has shown, especially here at NCSU that Gotts teams no matter how talented live on the bubble.
Two of the 4 trips we’ve been a #8 seed, so I don’t know what history you’re looking at.
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