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Grey: I honestly find your defense of DD as or more tiring than you find my posts. Yow delivered you a Christmas gift of 3+ more years of DD. I don’t really care one way or another because the inputs of our football program add up to about 7-5 to 9-3, and that’s what we’re getting. I care much more about men’s basketball where we do have the inputs to do something far more than we have over the past 20 years.
I am willing to admit that some things are good and some things are bad. In the spirit of continuous improvement, given we’ve got more time I would hope we seek to get better. To hear you talk, we didn’t even need to hire that 10th coach. DD has it all covered. We just need some better players. Shrugs.
I like the Roof hire. I’m in a minority that I have no real issue with Hux. I don’t love our version of 4-2-5, but hopefully Roof can shore the passing defense up like he did at GT this year. I do wonder if this signals something about Hux and I’m not the only person asking that.
As for Special teams, there have been interactions on another site with a former kicker of ours. He has outlined many issues with coaching relative to how the place kicking is being instructed (multiple kickers doing the same incorrect things, holders, etc.). Maybe a better place kicker solves it because maybe he just ignores what is coached, so maybe Jimmy does fix it. My gut says when multiple players make the same mistakes, you may want to look at who is telling them to do that. For a team that isn’t going to “out talent” the opposition, Special teams is a way to make a difference. It looks to me like we under invest there.
And yes, for some of us who thought that if DD were relieved of his duties (and I fully believe the last two years came down to week 12), we felt that Kitchings would be a good hire. We’ve heard from a lot of places that Kitchings is a great recruiter and really connects with people. That line of thinking is an acknowledgment that many things are going well, but if a change had to be made not to throw the good out with the bad. As you say none of us really know the exact decisions made by which coach, but we do know that DD is responsible for the sum of them, and is the one who tells the refs what time outs to call, whether to challenge, etc.. So I cannot tell you if Des or Drink or the phantom sports analytics person is the source, but I can tell you that DD is the responsible party, and then is the one that often blames the players, refs, laptops, etc. when they don’t work out.
I forgot to mention culture. I agree with you that culture is critically important and probably the biggest job of the person in charge. What I would say is that I have been in a number of cultures. Give me the one where the leader takes personal responsibility when the road gets bumpy, and not blames subordinates and external factors.
A great example of this is Keatts after the UNCG loss. That was a real stinker. He said that he wasn’t going to make excuses about not having a player. He’a continually said he’s pleased with the effort of the kids. He’a not said the obvious (we need better players), blames youth, whined about the hand he was dealt, called out the 1/2 empty PNC, etc.. he’s just rolled up his sleeves and worked. Keatts may or may not win big here, but his is the culture that I like (at least from what a casual fan can see).
one thing I’d add Grey, Roof’s defenses have consistently ranked very high both in conference and nationwide. When you’re talking to a potential recruit it means a lot if that kid knows he’ll be playing on a defense that is recognized to be one of the best. I have no doubt that was probably one of the reasons Chubb decided to come back for his senior year, and now that will pay off for him on draft day, and paycheck day.
I am trying to follow so are you saying that Chubb came back to school this year because of Roof coming to state next year?
No, Chubb came back because lots of sources picked State to have a really good defense this year. We did lose some pretty good coverage guys though (not great mind you) and that was more telling than anything. In spite of that Chubb had a banner year and will get the job with the bucks to go with it. I wish we could find 10 more of him.
Smarter than the average bear
Grey: I honestly find your defense of DD as or more tiring than you find my posts.
Rye, I don’t find your posts tiring but I do find it interesting that on a site where darn near every post criticizes DD, you find my post defending DD tiring. What you call defending, I call clarifying. Mostly I try to point out how the coaching of our team works structure and delegation wise. I know, I know, you don’t want to hear it.
but I can tell you that DD is the responsible party, and then is the one that often blames the players, refs, laptops, etc. when they don’t work out.
Thanks for letting me know DD is the responsible party. That’s a little condescending, don’t you think? Your interpretation of what DD says at the pressers says more about you than him. I have heard veiled complaints about refs — you can’t complain or be critical without paying a big fine — but I never heard DD blame a loss on refereeing. What would be an accurate statement is YOU claim he OFTEN blames players, refs, laptops, etc. when they don’t work out — what ever “when they don’t work out” means.
Grey: I honestly find your defense of DD as or more tiring than you find my posts.
Rye, I don’t find your posts tiring but I do find it interesting that on a site where darn near every post criticizes DD, you find my post defending DD tiring. What you call defending, I call clarifying. Mostly I try to point out how the coaching of our team works structure and delegation wise. I know, I know, you don’t want to hear it.
but I can tell you that DD is the responsible party, and then is the one that often blames the players, refs, laptops, etc. when they don’t work out.
Thanks for letting me know DD is the responsible party. That’s a little condescending, don’t you think? Your interpretation of what DD says at the pressers says more about YOU than him. I have heard veiled complaints about refs — you can’t complain or be critical without paying a big fine — but I never heard DD blame a loss on refereeing. What would be an accurate statement is YOU claim he OFTEN blames players, refs, laptops, etc.
Doeren comes out for the second half of his first game and is amazed to see a large percentage of the seats empty. After the game he tells the fans something to the effect, “We need your support, please try to be back in your seats for the start of the 3rd quarter.” A straight forward request. He didn’t know he was talking to thin-skinned, back stabbers who would cut him down at the first opportunity. Take it as a request, he11 no, not this group of fans. “He called us out” is the cry. Shame on him. How dare he make such a request. Doesn’t he know we need our beer. Screw the team, screw the game, getting that buzz up to pregame level is what’s important.
It’s been game on every since. Any opportunity to make him wrong is fair game. Mention laptops on our opponents sideline? He’s blaming laptops for losing. Mention some obvious no-calls? He’s blaming refs for losing the game. In your and many minds Doeren is doing or saying something wrong, waiting to happen. Notice how quick you were to go to that in a discussion about special teams. Couldn’t help yourself.
Let’s not forget that DD gave up an extra million to stay here. He has an excellent set on incoming recruits, 4star QB AND LB. What do you want? Saben has a job.
Special Teams Stats:
Pack Opps
KICK RETURNS: #32 Yards-711 48-970
PUNT RETURNS: #15 Yards-203 18-237
KICK RETURN AVERAGE 22.2 20.2
PUNT RETURN AVERAGE 13.5 13.2Looking at the records we see that our kick return average is 2 yards more than our opponents.
We also see our punt return average is slightly better, nearly the same as our opponents.We hired an experienced coach to coach 2 problem areas on our defense — nickels and safeties. What do we do? Complain about Special Teams and how we should have hired a special teams coach. The records/stats don’t agree.
Our kickers do well in practice according to that lying Head Coach of ours. An ex-kicker sees all the kicking mechanics problems or supposedly claims on another message board that a good special teams coach could fix our kicking problems. We’re suppose to believe the second hand claims from an anonymous message board. Please. Not the best source of information and knowledge about kicking IMO.
Shorty of hiring Tricky Nicky I think we have a decent set of a coaching staff. Perfect – no? But not so bad and I see moving forward. As I posted before the season that moving forward is the key.
Hopefully, our kicking issues may clear up next season with the recruitment of Chris Dunn from Lexington. From what I read he was rated by kicking guru, Chris Sailer, as the number 5 placekicker nationally in the 2018 class.
He was also picked to play in the Carolinas Shrine Bowl as well as the Offense-Defense All American Bowl 12-30-17 in New Orleans.
Hopefully, our kicking issues may clear up next season with the recruitment of Chris Dunn from Lexington. From what I read he was rated by kicking guru, Chris Sailer, as the number 5 placekicker nationally in the 2018 class.
Dunn was rated by Sailer as the number 1 placekicker nationally in the 2017 class. — Chris’s Jr year. Chris has never lost a competition — even earning a first time ever perfect score in a national competition in Las Vegas. Why the drop? Dunn stayed off the kicking competition circuit this year to strengthen his leg, practice kicking of the turf, kicking for height at the line of scrimmage, and KO that are high and come down between the 5 yd line and goal line.
He may not work out. We won’t know until we see him kick under pressure, off the turf in front of 50,000 screaming fans but I’ll take a chance on the formerly ranked number 1 kicker.
ASU along with 4 other teams blocked 6 kicks in 2017 — first in Div. 1. NC State only blocked 5 kicks — good for 6th place. Not bad for the worst special team Rye can remember.
Special Teams Stats:
KICK RETURNS: #32-711 Yards Opps 48-970
PUNT RETURNS: #15-203 Yards Opps 18-237
KICK RETURN AVERAGE 22.2 Opps 20.2
PUNT RETURN AVERAGE 13.5 Opps 13.2I thought some stats and rankings might dispel the notion that our special teams are atrocious or horrible or other negative descriptions. Stats and facts will just be tiring to some.
I have asserted that bigger, faster, stronger, better blocking and tackling athletes would improve our Special Teams. Some think what we need is better coaching. I disagree. BTW we are recruiting bigger, faster, stronger, better blocking and tackling athletes. Should help all our teams.
A great example of this is Keatts after the UNCG loss. That was a real stinker. He said that he wasn’t going to make excuses about not having a player. He’a continually said he’s pleased with the effort of the kids. He’a not said the obvious (we need better players), blames youth, whined about the hand he was dealt, called out the 1/2 empty PNC, etc..
“He said that he wasn’t going to make excuses about not having a player.” Saying this is making excuses for not having a player. If he wasn’t implying it was an excuse, why say he wasn’t going to use it as an excuse.”
“He’a continually said he’s pleased with the effort of the kids.” This is coach speak 101. You aren’t claiming it an exclusive with Keatts are you?
“He’a not said the obvious (we need better players), blames youth, whined about the hand he was dealt, called out the 1/2 empty PNC, etc..” This statement is fundamental dishonesty. Doeren hasn’t said we need better players, I have. You disagree with that? Nor has he “whined” about the hand he has dealt. Easy to make unsubstantiated claims. Anybody can do it.
Coaches have to talk at pressers. Coach says that we have a young team, youngest team, veteran team, experienced team, whatever. When it’s a young team, Rye cites that as “blaming players.” Rye, coaches, and they all do it, are just filling space talking about their team. Nobody is blaming anybody. Except you.
I think we can all agree that Keats came in more skilled with the press on this level. Over time DD has developed that aspect. I’m happy so far with both – that does not mean either is the second coming (or not yet) but both are a damn sight better than who they replaced.
I think we can all agree that Keats came in more skilled with the press on this level. Over time DD has developed that aspect. I’m happy so far with both – that does not mean either is the second coming (or not yet) but both are a damn sight better than who they replaced.
Well said and 100% accurate. We needed a coach with a plan to develop a P-5 football program that challenges for championships. It’s slower than any of us would have liked but it seems to be getting there. 8-4 with a good chance to go to 9-4 with a good recruiting class coming in. Better than a sharp stick in the eye.
Speaking of assistants…. appears that the great white North has worn out another welcome…this guy is coming close to committing professional suicide. It will be interesting to see if he can stick somewhere long enough to get the gig he understandably covets. At this route, he may be better off being the top dog to prove his smarts
Daily Advertiser: Orgeron still frosty toward Canada, who may be replaced by Ensminger after Citrus Bowl. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwkIGTpTo
We’ll probably never know what it was with Doeren and Canada but it was something. The most likely rumor that I heard had to do with him, Canada, ticking off HS coaches. That is a recruiting death sentence and reason for Doeren to let him go.
As I have posted before one of the major thinks DD must do is have solid assistants (for the college game). That means teaching, being innovative and also having good relations with HS coaches. In the end those will be the tell. To date I think he has upgraded but as turnover happens (assistants leaving or let go) he must upgrade the program.
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