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Judging from the number of transfers we have, it seems to me that nobody wants to play for NC State anymore.
I wouldn’t get too excited yet. Gott fell flat in Leslie’s last year when we were predicted to compete in the ACC. His rep as a good coach took a huge hit.
It would be a huge step forward if he shows he can field a solid team that can play defense and runs something on offense other than one man dribbling and another running the baseline.
I will hold my breath, but I think we have seen the future with Gott. Hope I am wrong and he becomes a good coach to complement his recruiting.
Gottfried averted a bare-roster-induced disaster next year. That is true. I think the concern is that we have little margin for error/injury.
A potential best case for NC State would be for the team to contend for an ACC title, win the ACC Tournament, and go deep in the NCAA Tournament. That might bring UCLA calling.
Please note I said the best case for NC State. The short and long term interests of the University and its athletics program are what take priority, not the individual interests of administrators and coaches who are there to serve NC State and its shareholder-fans. Show me a business that fails to understand that and I will show you failure.
Gottfried averted a bare-roster-induced disaster next year. That is true. I think the concern is that we have little margin for error/injury.
Frankly we have always had this problem because we don’t keep a full roster. We have been very fortunate to have only one major injury in five years.
Had the statement placing the blame for transfers out solely on the coaching staff, without any comments regarding the transfers in, been left out of the article I would have been fine with it. The constant drum beat that assigns 100% of the blame for transfers out but never credit for transfers in gets really old
I read this on another thread and feel it’s appropriate here.
Tip for the day: When it’s always someone else, then maybe, just maybe, it’s actually you.So the people who are saying that the transfers are all on Gott need to look at the players. Is that what you are saying? If so, I don’t agree. I think that each one of theses situations was unique, with multiple relationships and factors combining to bring about the departure. Sometimes it was players who realized they weren’t in the right place, sometimes it was mismanaged relationships by the coaching staff, sometimes it was other stuff.
Had the statement placing the blame for transfers out solely on the coaching staff, without any comments regarding the transfers in, been left out of the article I would have been fine with it. The constant drum beat that assigns 100% of the blame for transfers out but never credit for transfers in gets really old
I read this on another thread and feel it’s appropriate here.
Tip for the day: When it’s always someone else, then maybe, just maybe, it’s actually you.So the people who are saying that the transfers are all on Gott need to look at the players. Is that what you are saying? If so, I don’t agree. I think that each one of theses situations was unique, with multiple relationships and factors combining to bring about the departure. Sometimes it was players who realized they weren’t in the right place, sometimes it was mismanaged relationships by the coaching staff, sometimes it was other stuff.
I am saying there is one common denominator in all of the early departures.
I don’t care about transfers. If that was the only issue, it wouldn’t be a problem. Having a season like last year wasn’t due to transfers. You can make a case that Gott has won the transfer battle by upgrading, but you can certainly argue the opposite. We haven’t always been able to recruit and fill out rosters when there have been transfers, leaving inadequate depth, regardless of the quality. Hence last year. 1 eligible uninjured scholarship guard on the roster. One.
We should be better this year for the simple reason that we have more guards. Better on offense, better on defense. I don’t expect anything more than a mid-ACC regular season finish, some wins against quality opponents, some letdowns and losses to mediocre opponents, and a dangerous but underseeded team due to the mediocre season.
I don’t care about transfers.
Me either. I care about winning something significant.
Transfers-out work against that goal. Transfers-in help move towards that goal. Early-exits hurt. Good recruiting helps, missed opportunities hurt. State has something in most of those categories every year…so focusing on one aspect to the exclusion of the others adds nothing meaningful to the conversation.
So is Gott building something in Raleigh? The answer today is probably not. But at least his scrambling has moved State out of the bottom of the conference (most years) and may do so again next year.
Just imagine how the last five years could have looked if State could’ve kept:
Let me guess: Two Sweet 16’s, two other NCAAT appearances, and one missed NCAAT.
I care about winning something significant.
This. This. This.
Today’s game is different. Everybody keeps talking about the “epidemic” of transfers and the “tragedy” of one-and-dones. These things are viewed through the “bad-for-the-game” lens by some because both create instability and interfere with coaches’ ability to control the outcome. I don’t see these things as “tragic” or “bad for the game” or any other pejorative description that is applied. I see these things as simple evolution aligned with the current rules and practices. It will get more intense (not less) unless something substantial changes.
IMO Gott has earned his keep (and then some) so far. He has embraced the transfer culture and established his program as a safe haven for talented wanderers. He is absolutely unafraid to compete with anybody for the services of the one-and-done crowd, and I applaud that. I give him high marks for competing, for raising the perception of the program, and for overall recruiting. He’s chosen a path and a model, and he must now learn to work with the consequences: high turnover, rebuilding chemistry every year, etc.
There’s only one missing ingredient: F’in WIN SOMETHING. He gets no high mark in this area from me, and I share Va’s concern that he may not be the guy. He has worked roster management wonders, but now it’s time to see if he can follow up on the execution. He needs to win something. Let’s just say based on history I have high hopes and moderate expectations. If he fulfills the moderate expectations, the off season may be a defining moment for our program’s future.
EDIT I’m curious, Va: what do you consider “significant”? My version includes regular season mythical championship, tournament championship, plus any NCAA advancement beyond sweet 16 (his current ceiling, it seems).
Comments/questions on the OP:
1. Henderson is listed as a 2G/Wing, Dorn is listed simply as a 2G. Won’t Dorn or Henderson back up DSJ? Is Dorn not capable of playing the wing?
2. “I can’t imagine there is other option but to try to take Gibson Johnson a forward from Salt Lake Community College.” This is written as if it is undesirable to take Johnson. Why?
3. “…the coaching staff’s inability to retain solid upperclassmen contributors continues to set State apart from the elite programs…” But State isn’t an elite program, so why are you comparing to those programs? How does State’s outgoing transfer rate compare to the non-elite programs? That would be a better barometer IMO. As others have noted, it would also be a better barometer to account for the incoming transfers as well. Among non-elite programs, I expect Gott’s record is okay when accounting for both incoming and outgoing transfers.
Tau – speaking for myself – I think it’s just very difficult to forget Gott’s decade at Alabama and his inability to capitalize on the opportunity of his 2nd year.
He deserves credit – and even if Yurt didn’t sign – the opportunity to coach these kids for next year.
The questions for Gott are really 2 fold:
1) will things fall apart here the way they fell apart at Alabama.
2) if they don’t – can he establish State as an elite program again.He definitely has the moxie – and in he definitely doesn’t prevent his kids (a la herb Sendek) from doing good things on the basketball court through micromanagement.
Next year is critical. It’s pretty obvious to me that if we had accomplished more in Gott’s tenure, we wouldnt have missed on some of these bigger fish to the sharks.
As we found ourselves in year 2 and year 4, Gott has assembled a roster that is talented enough to win a national championship.
I certainly don’t expect one. I think a great coach would either finish in the ACC top 4 ( not tied), the ACC championship or better than the NCAA sweet 16.
Looks like we added this guy…
Who, I’m personally excited about despite his atrocious squat technique. He’s a preferred walk-on, but had an offer from OK St. Even if he never plays (which he will), if he can push the starters in workouts and practice (which he will) it’s a win.
I like all kinds of Kool-aid. Grape, fruit punch, berry, pink lemonade etc. It taste the same every year and starts off delicious then taste cheap and too sweet by the end. Swear it off each time but get lured back in to drinking the same $hitty drink every year. Go Pack!
None of the transfers have improved their position for the future or transferred and had great success. The guys who have transferred have all been guys who think they deserve to be stars but are simply not that good.
None of the transfers have improved their position for the future or transferred and had great success. The guys who have transferred have all been guys who think they deserve to be stars but are simply not that good.
lol
Can everybody PLEASE just quit with the ESPN “Pardon the Interruption” bullshit and just start making comments that provide FORWARD LOOKING value? Wipe the slate clean as to who said what first. It is killing dialogue here. ON BOTH SIDES.
BJD: Agreed. I’m currently in my zen state with respect to Gott. My hope for this year is that we get Yurt cleared, Abu and Anya back (looking good there), Nard red shirts (long term health is way more important than basketball), DSJ and Henderson come back healthy, we see a heavy dose of Amoeba zone and the return to a semblance of a structured offense.
Do these things and we should see a Top 25 team, a secured ACC Tournmanet double bye (which is essential for finally winning something), a good NCAA seed (4-5), and an Elite 8. If all those good things happen, that should be the reasonable expectation given the current “new” state of college basketball.
Lets embrace those expectations. No more excuse mongering, lowering expectations, etc..
Id be curious as to the odds on Terry Henderson getting a sixth year of eligibility. When you talk about spacing and distribution in terms of needing experience for 2017-2018, having both Dorn and Henderson back along with Rowan would be a decent core of leadership. The problem with that is that they are all wings.
Adding the two Johnsons would make this a lot better.
Any major program that is trying to not only achieve a fairly high level in basketball (and especially football) but maintain it as well likely won’t do it with transfers being the main piece of the pie. This seems to be where we are in basketball right now. I get what’s going on almost everywhere with transfers, but I don’t like the long-term implications.
There are probably many reasons for a player to transfer, but the main one to me is simple- they simply aren’t very good players in the first place, and a close second would be that they either have little loyalty to their school or don’t like the coach.
I will renew my LTR b-ball tickets this season, but I agree with whiteshoes in that we’ll probably not be any better than a mid-ACC finisher, even if we get all these new players. There could be problems getting the big guy, whose eligibility situation has already scared off other schools. We lost our best player from last season, who I thought was the MVP in the ACC, considering how much help he didn’t have. We also lost lost 2 more players from what was mainly a 6-player rotation and a 5-13 ACC finisher.
I would like to see less talented and more committed players brought in, ones who would put NC State first instead of themselves. I’d like to see players who could be counted on to stick around for 3 or 4 seasons. Right now we seem to have only 2 levels of players- either those who are marginal NBA wannabees who are ready to leave before they even get started good, or bench players who never get to play. As bad as we were last season, what could it have possibly hurt to have played #13 and some of our other “bench players” a little more?
The most significant game last season to me was the opening game vs William & Mary, who used mainly seniors to thoroughly embarrass us in spite of our superior talent. If we could have more skilled players like that to mix with the one-and-done supposedly talented players who can’t be counted on to stay 2 seasons if even that long, it would help immensely, instead of having to assemble a completely new team every season.
A significant recent change in college basketball is the success that the smaller schools are having against larger schools, especially when you consider that the larger schools are almost always the home team. The smaller but more skilled and experienced players from smaller schools are as good if not better than many of the freshmen on the larger teams.
And until our coaches start to recruit accordingly, we’ll likely remain in the deepening rut that has become NC State basketball.
Id be curious as to the odds on Terry Henderson getting a sixth year of eligibility.
Slim, very slim, since he burned one of his five years with a voluntary transfer.
(Not sure that is true if you include those that left early and were not successful enough to merit leaving early – CJ Leslie, Trevor Lacey, Lorenzo Brown, maybe Cat Barber.)
If I recall, Trevor is earning 6 figures playing in Europe. Got no problem with his decision. In fact, I applaud and support it.
Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy. Mao Zedong
VaWolf82 wrote:
I care about winning something significant.
This. This. This.Today’s game is different. Everybody keeps talking about the “epidemic” of transfers and the “tragedy” of one-and-dones. These things are viewed through the “bad-for-the-game” lens by some because both create instability and interfere with coaches’ ability to control the outcome. I don’t see these things as “tragic” or “bad for the game” or any other pejorative description that is applied. I see these things as simple evolution aligned with the current rules and practices. It will get more intense (not less) unless something substantial changes.
IMO Gott has earned his keep (and then some) so far. He has embraced the transfer culture and established his program as a safe haven for talented wanderers. He is absolutely unafraid to compete with anybody for the services of the one-and-done crowd, and I applaud that. I give him high marks for competing, for raising the perception of the program, and for overall recruiting. He’s chosen a path and a model, and he must now learn to work with the consequences: high turnover, rebuilding chemistry every year, etc.
There’s only one missing ingredient: F’in WIN SOMETHING. He gets no high mark in this area from me, and I share Va’s concern that he may not be the guy. He has worked roster management wonders, but now it’s time to see if he can follow up on the execution. He needs to win something. Let’s just say based on history I have high hopes and moderate expectations. If he fulfills the moderate expectations, the off season may be a defining moment for our program’s future.
_______________________________________________________________________________Great Post, agree wholeheartedly…..Learn to navigate the landscape not afraid to compete, now we need to win something.
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