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Obviously, the events of this past week serve to completely change the outlook for NC State Basketball, at least for the 2016-2017 season. Suddenly, N
[See the full post at: NC State Basketball Scholarship Distribution & Discussion]What? If, if, if…Who wrote this?
Chicken little. Sorry, I just could NOT resist. We have gone from no roster to what could be a decent one for at least this next season and yet the sky is still falling.
Smarter than the average bear
I would argue that we are trying to apply a traditional model to a VERY non-traditional coach.
What you are seeing us try to do is morph into “Kentucky Lite” but with incoming transfers filling the gaps associated with…not being Kentucky.
Is it the path I would personally choose? Probably not. But it’s interesting, and MG at least COULD make it work, in a way he clearly ain’t gonna with a traditional setup.
The key is…we have to actually DO SOMETHING with this loaded gun, not just come close, or give people a scare. Horseshoes and hand grenades time is over, if we expect to sell players on it again, and keep the fanbase from revolting.
But hey, 2016-17 will be a fun ride instead of a shitshow, at least.
Doom and gloom. We should be excited that we could potentially field a top 6 team in the ACC next year (dependent on Yurtsevens eligibility). We actually have a talented roster and a legitimate starting 5 that all rank as top 50 recruits coming out of high school. Not many teams have that. Give credit where credit is due and get off your pedalstool. Gottfried is a good coach and an exceptional recruiter and has assembled a great recruiting staff. Yes, we lack defensive identity. And yes, we lose transfers regularly but who doesn’t? There were almost 1,000 transfers this year. It’s an epidemic. I say good riddance to the Martin twins. They were inconsistent and were hardly ACC caliber starters. Unless you want to be Wake Forest or BC? Any takers?
The fact is since Valvano, State has struggled to regain our identity as a premiere basketball program. And now with an absolutely loaded ACC, the challenge is even harder. I am patient enough to recognize that we have a good situation with Gottfried as he has proven multiple times that he has the ability to field a competitive ball club and make a run in the dance. I can live with a sweet 16 and elite 8 run every 4 years. If you expect more than that then you’re probably voting for Bernie Sanders. Understand this is a marathon and not a 100 meter dash. It takes time to return to prominence. Enjoy the ride. With the exception of last year, it has been invigorating to watch Gottfried’s teams in action across a season. You cannot deny that he always has them playing their best basketball in March.
Ultimately the coaching staff’s ability to consistently attract quality experienced players via transfer has factored heavily in the four tournament runs including two sweet sixteens under MG. Imagine what the last five years would have been like without Alex Johnson, Trevor Lacey, Dez Lee, and Ralston Turner.
If you add this statement to the article it would be a more accurate representation of what has occurred during Gott’s tenure, but some people have to take their shots, even at the end of a week that MAY have set us up for a really solid 2016-2017 season.
And dang it, we need more jobs for wheelwrights and horse whip manufacturers!
And what about those frog wings?
Where is my post?
Pravda editors must be at work today.
Not “Pravda” editors. WordPress sticks posts into pending for what appears to be random reasons.
I hope we land Gibson Johnson. He would give us a stretch 4 that would be a solid backup for Abu and could free up the paint for Yurtseven given his 3 point range. He would also give us an experienced player to go alongside Freeman in 2017. My only concern is if we land Johnson then Darius Hicks will transfer after his freshmen year. Gottfried will never play 5 post players consistently across 2 spots. Never. odds are we will sign two top 100 posts for the 2017 class. On top of that we will probably land two guards. Understand we are targeting a solid portion of the 2017 class that is ranked in the top 100. Land 3 or 4 guys and 2017 is a young but capable team. Gottfried made the right move in his Pierre and Schroyer hires. I believe those dividends will pay off in 2017.
Having 2 guys go in the lottery next year will help too :). Abu could even be a first rounder.
So instead of putting up with this bottom dwelling, dumpster fire, where everything sucks program, we should be clamoring for Gott and Yow to be fired now because that would be the smart and proactive thing to do?
Just in case this post is misunderstood the above question is made from a summary of some things posted in another thread by various people.
“I would argue that we are trying to apply a traditional model to a VERY non-traditional coach.”
Agree and would add that college basketball is no longer the traditional model it was just five or ten years ago and will not be going forward. We look to the 80’s as our glory years and they were but college basketball will not be what it was in the 80’s unfortunately – As you say, we have a loaded gun, if Y7 clears, we need to do something with it……
I see the attack anything that’s not rainbows and unicorns group is out in full force. BTW what did he say in that article that was so offensive?
Gott turned around a potential disaster into a surprisingly talented group of kids. Let’s hope our record matches our talent level.
But there are legitimate concerns about the following year. I guess we will get to see what the great scrambler is able to pull out that next year.I do not discount Rick’s concerns. Valid concerns but as mentioned the college game has changed greatly in the last decade. Can Gott scramble enough to deal with that change? That we will see.
I see the attack anything that’s not rainbows and unicorns group is out in full force. BTW what did he say in that article that was so offensive?
Gott turned around a potential disaster into a surprisingly talented group of kids. Let’s hope our record matches our talent level.
But there are legitimate concerns about the following year. I guess we will get to see what the great scrambler is able to pull out that next year.Had the statement placing the blame for transfers out solely on the coaching staff, without any comments regarding the transfers in, been left out of the article I would have been fine with it. The constant drum beat that assigns 100% of the blame for transfers out but never credit for transfers in gets really old. It’s the same drummers that pound about lack of player development with guys like Abu and Anya, while staying silent on Lo Brown, Cat, Richard Howell, and TJ Warren.
Sometimes people mesh, sometimes they don’t. It’s something you really want to figure out in the recruiting process, but if you’ve ever hired people on a regular basis, you know that figuring out “fit” is an inexact science.
You are absolutely correct that Gott still has a lot of work to do in order to field more than a UNC-W level team in 2017-18. It would be nice to convert the commitments we have just gotten into a couple more JUCO guys to help correct for the Martins.
So weird how bringing a factual, analytical, forward thinking conversation to the forefront is considered ‘Chicken Little’. What actual points in the comments are not applicable?
I think BJD makes a FANTASTIC point about trying to bring a ‘typical’ approach to an atypical coach and operating model. I don’t disagree with that. I also don’t disagree with the comments that Gottfried deserves credit for his ability to attract talent. Of course, he would NOT have to always be attracting talent if he could figure out a way to RETAIN the talent that he originally attracted.
With that said — we now have 5 years of on the floor performance (plus his 14 years prior to State) to know exactly what the Gottfried model produces. I think it is just good enough. But, I also see no reason to think that we will ever remotely be really good for anything that looks like a consistent amount of time. And, the point of some of these comments is to point out WHY we aren’t consistently ‘really good’. It’s not mean or ‘negative’. It just is what it is. But, like I say, I think it is generally ‘good enough’.
We’ve made the point many times that Gottfried has generally won the ‘transfer in’ game. (Not sure that is true if you include those that left early and were not successful enough to merit leaving early – CJ Leslie, Trevor Lacey, Lorenzo Brown, maybe Cat Barber.)
Nonetheless, I think you might be missing the importance of cohesion and chemistry and stability in this equation. Generally speaking, I’d rather have the same talent in one player stay for 4 years than to have the same talent spread across 2 or 3 players over a 4 year period. That’s just me.
We had some decent talent this past year, but depth and lack of three point shooting really hurt us. We need to keep adding depth, so we can just overwhelm teams the way that it was done to us.
Had the statement placing the blame for transfers out solely on the coaching staff, without any comments regarding the transfers in, been left out of the article I would have been fine with it. The constant drum beat that assigns 100% of the blame for transfers out but never credit for transfers in gets really old
I read this on another thread and feel it’s appropriate here.
Tip for the day: When it’s always someone else, then maybe, just maybe, it’s actually you.If you are worried now about the year after next, get a grip. We are still recruiting for next year. Almost anything could happen between now and then. I don’t mind the “Kentucky-lite” approach at all. There is probably greater potential risk and greater potential reward. Without any banners hung since V years, I like the risk on play. Good news is that he can be removed when there is too much downside, so enjoy the ride and live a little.
If you are worried now about the year after next, get a grip.
You and Gott seem to have a similar philosophy. Hard to build a program that way.
Should we enjoy the moment and not worry about the future? Should we worry about the longetivity and the setup 3 years down the road? I understand both arguments because I’ve fit in to one of those categories over the last several years. Hell, I could die tomorrow so I’ll be happy with whats going on now 🙂
The new NCABB model is for players to leave after 1 really good season. This is encouraged by the NBA drafting philosophy where players are drafted after as soon as GM’s (feel they) can accurately evaluate their potential. TJ, CAT, and Lacy all left after their really good season.
Cal showed everyone how to maximize the number of players having really good seasons…simply pull in 4-5 OAD’ers every year and turn the roster over. OAD’ers who have a “disappointing” rookie year, merely a pretty good season, fill out the balance of their roster as sophs. Duke, Kan, Cheat, Conn, all employ some version of this strategy.
For the rest of D1, we need to recruit and develop players. Hopefully after 1-2 seasons of growth each recruit will have a pretty good season followed by a really good season (or at least 2 pretty good seasons ala Howell, Turner, Lo Brown).
Gott’s problem is players transferring just after 1-2 “OK” seasons (Lewis, Martin x 2, Washington, Purvis) or going pro after a just a pretty good season (CJL). We are losing out on the investment on our 2nd level recruits and never really cashing in on their productive years. Of course Gott’s strategy has been to backfill with xfers from other schools to fill this gap. While Gott has done alright replacing the talent, I do think we have lost out on some continuity as the team is reconstitued every fall.
Only way to break the cycle is to recruit more OAD’ers or find some kids that want to play at NC state.
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