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They are not who I thought they were. (and not in a good way)
I realize when a team is hot, the location doesn’t matter the shots just fall for them, but is it just me or is the PNC arena the perfect place for one of the following to occur frequently
– an opposing team to break out of their slump
– or a player to have their biggest season high
– or a poor 3pt shooting team has a 50-75% night against us
– or a bottom dweller plays like conference champs against usThats because they shoot wide open shots. Our defense is again horrid. I am not sure if anyone remembers the arguments I got in at the beginning of the year when everyone said this was going to be a good defensive team. They ARE better than last years but that is a low bar to hurdle.
There is more wrong than right with this team.
Ah, the good ol “Gott needs to go” part of the season. I was wondering if it was coming this year (hoping it wasn’t).
I think we pretty much know now what to expect from Gottfried teams now. Competitive yes. Championship no.
Winning program? Yes, but barely.
I’ll keep watching and hoping for the Pack, but I also keep an eye on my “Backup” team so I am ready for when the Tournament starts.
Here’s a question: Who do you guys like to watch/cheer for when the Pack falls out of it? If I remember, Kentucky was this Site’s go-to team last season.
I generally go for Kansas, myself.
Here are the defensive rankings for the season (I would imagein ACC games is much worse).
Gott does not care about defensePoints
65.1
152nd in the nationAssists
11.5
107th in the nationRebounds
33.5
157th in the nationFG Pct
39.8
60th in the nationRick – those stats can be misleading. IMHO – defensive rebounding is part of d, turnovers forced and so are fouls…so defensive efficiency is a much better measure.
Pitt – yep. We know what we gott don’t we? The sky isn’t falling, its the same sky as it was the last 3 years.
chop,
AS you requested
Our defensive efficiency is 99.0
That is ranked 162 in the natioin and 11th in the conference.choppack1,
yes…as Rick eluded to, our D is low percentage and madly inconsistent as most other facets of our game. At times we seem to present a strong D with positive intensity, but maintaining that has been a major downfall for us..
guess I’m just fed up with other teams/individual players being lights out in our home so many times throughout the season, yet we struggle with consistency on our home floor
Here’s a question: Who do you guys like to watch/cheer for when the Pack falls out of it? If I remember, Kentucky was this Site’s go-to team last season.
Situational, for me. And it’s rare that I would ever pull for UK (didn’t last season, anyway) … against the Cheats though? Pffft Go Wildcats.
Rick the Pack is 52 in the nation in field goal percentage.
Places them I think 5th or 6th in the ACC. Name of the game is preventing them from scoring. Other defensive stats are important but not close to that one.
That is the lowest it’s ever been under GOTT here since his second season.
Jvnm – I actually think the intensity has been there most games this year – it’s the execution that is off. Our guys don’t play solid defense fundamentally…. As a result, even though they play hard, they are out of position, and so they end up following, giving up multiple shots or wide open jumpers. It’s like most sports – at a certain level effort is simply not enough. If you have flaws they will be exposed by better competition and/or those who can effectively exploit them.
GT will be the real test….to quote Gott “The team did not play well last night”. Mikey and Roy have said that on more than one occasion this year….Mikey said it after WE beat them.
Don’t hear their fans calling for a buyout.
You gotta be kidding, right?
Jvnm – I actually think the intensity has been there most games this year – it’s the execution that is off.
I really like this. The players seem lost, like they don’t know what to do out there on the floor. Like they are all on their own. Disorganized.
Everyone step away from the ledge. Yes, I was disappointed in the loss last night and I do not believe in moral victories.
I find it amazing how everyone seems to know our team better than the coaches who spend every day with the players. One person will comment that “we need to play Cat more and that will solve everything” while another will say “how dumb can MG be for playing Cat?” We need to play the twins more and the twins are overmatched. We need to have a more “settled line up and rotation” compared to “we need to mix it up more and bench so and so so that so and so can play.”
I dont understand Gott’s rotation or sub patterns. Guess what – it is not us to US to determine that! Why did so and so play or why did so and so not play? Maybe Gott and the coaches are trying to exploit a potential mismatch, or maybe so and so had the flu. Unless you know why, give the coaching staff some credit. How would you like it if someone came to your work from outside and thought they knew more about your job than you do?
Yes, this is a public forum and open to all comments. Gott sees the same issues we all see, and he is trying to find solutions. THAT is why you see different rotations and patterns, that is why you might see something that does not make sense to you, but seemed like a good fit in practice so let’s try it in a game situation.
Mike – I am not on a ledge. These are the results I expected and its foolish to expect anything other than what we’ve seen so far. However, that doesn’t mean it’s not frustrating as hell.
How would you like it if someone came to your work from outside and thought they knew more about your job than you do?
It happens every day in all walks of life.
A few mistakes here and there are tolerable. But lately we’ve exceeded the threshold, to the point where we only score 16 points in one half at home against a team that, frankly, is a collection of unheralded players. It’s not like we were smacked around by Louisville or some other program like that. We’ve been clubbed over the head by Cincinnati and Clemson AT HOME!
To continue since I did not want to put all in one rant:
Many of you want Gott gone and think Archie is the savior. I like Archie and wish him well but you have absolutely no idea how he would do in this league. Archie lost the other night to the 5th place team in the league by 17 points, blown out 77-60. How can he be a good coach getting blown out by the 5th place team in a weaker conference?
I will take this one step further – I was NOT, never was a Sendek fan. I was happy to see him gone and should have been gone long before he was. And while we say we dont really care what the media thinks, we do, because it is public perception and affects us in recruiting, reputation, and many other factors. Sendek walks away after 5 straight seasons and we are crucified in the media. We go to Lowe, and cant even sniff the tourney. Bring in Gott and 3 straight tourney appearances overcoming chemistry issues and head cases all 3 years, and now we are ready to run another coach out the door??? Who in their right mind would want that lunacy? An up and comer like Archie might, but what is in the back of his mind if there is one year where there are struggles? Get rid of Gott and let’s say Archie says no? THEN who comes in?
It’s amazing to me how the grass is always redder on the other side of the fence with the unknown. I am sorry, Archie is still an unknown entity. Or better yet, let’s look at previous Dayton coaches – they might be available.
* One coach had a 120-68 record (.638 winning pct) over his last 6 years there. Who wants Oliver Purnell?
* One coach had a 172-94 record (.646 winning pct) in 8 years there. Who wants Brian Gregory?
* Archie is 63-37 (.630 winning pct) in his first 3 years.It is not like Archie took over a bad program. In fact, Dayton wom 20 games the previous 4 years before Archie took over, and won 19 the 5th year before. I would venture to say the program has regressed just slightly in Archie’s time but nevertheless the percentage speaks for itself. Archie may be doing a great job and may end up being a great coach but dont put all your eggs in an unknown basket. By the way, just for fun, Gott’s winning percentage over the same 3 years as Archie is .648.
We can either be happy with a state of constant bubble satching or try to get better. Gott has a long history (not just 3 1/2 years) in which I base my assumption.
If you like where we are I understand, it is better than the Lowe days. But it is not where I want our program to be.I should’ve prefaced my comments by saying that my personal dislike of Gott, admittedly based on a few chance encounters at non-NCSU related events, doesn’t impact my not so valuable opinion of him as a coach. I work and do business with plenty of folks I don’t particularly care for, and vice versa, but if those character traits interfere with job execution, then we have a problem.
Arrogance, stubbornness, and whatever shenanigans you’re pulling don’t bother me if you win, and do so in a manner that reflects positively on the school. If you don’t, and you keep feeding me a pile of crap…then we have a problem. DY doesn’t strike me as someone who suffers fools, and when you can’t or don’t show what exactly you learned in your time away from the game, and how it applies to coaching, and more important, how it leads to W’s, then all it is is coach speak. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it’s a duck.
Nice to see balance in the comments. Unless Archie approaches Debbie with interest in the job … seems unlikely there will be a regime change in the next couple of years. Remember, she and Gott are long time friends. That will keep him warm during some cold losing spells.
I recall conversations on this site last year worried that Cat was a ‘one and done’. I commented that I thought that was unlikely, then somebody compared him favorably with Chris Paul. Now we wonder what is wrong with him. He’s definitely not sparking the offense at all lately. All I ever see him do is to wave at RT for the baseline cut.
We seem to have a lot of one dimensional players.
* Cat is fast and can defend, but really isn’t great on offense.
* Trevor is great offensively, both shooting and passing. Only okay on defense. His strength is his size.
* Ralston is similar, but is really only a catch and shoot guy – and hot and cold at that. He’s a weak defender, often gets caught reaching in when beaten.
* BeeJay has no defense, and limited offense so far. Lots of physical ability, but not much knowledge of how to play shows on the court.
* Nard is just a rebounder. No shot, limited defense.
* Dez is athletic and can defend, but is not a good ball handler or outside shooter.
* Kyle shoots well (56%), athletic rebounder and shot blocker. Not a good defender.But I think Cody, Caleb and Malik are starting to show all around games. They are very athletic, they hustle (!), they work hard on defense, they rebound, they can shoot, and they cause steals. But they are just freshmen and still have a lot of room to grow.
Hopefully it’s not an aberration, but this latest class looks great to me. Now we need a couple more classes just as good. I hope they are the standard of excellence going forward.
We can either be happy with a state of constant bubble satching or try to get better. Gott has a long history (not just 3 1/2 years) in which I base my assumption.
If you like where we are I understand, it is better than the Lowe days. But it is not where I want our program to be.Actually, I am frustrated and I dont want to be on the constant bubble. But I also think some continuity is a necessity. Constant change and flux does not help, and even the indecision and bickering affects the future. Does that next AA want to come here knowing the coach is on the hot seat?
We have the greatest fans but there is a reason “they” call us the lunatic fringe. We would have run K out of town too based on the last 2 weeks of their games. And K has struggled in the early NCAA’s too – get rid of K! Support our guy and let’s help him get better.
We can either be happy with a state of constant bubble satching or try to get better. Gott has a long history (not just 3 1/2 years) in which I base my assumption.
If you like where we are I understand, it is better than the Lowe days. But it is not where I want our program to be.Actually, I am frustrated and I dont want to be on the constant bubble. But I also think some continuity is a necessity. Constant change and flux does not help, and even the indecision and bickering affects the future. Does that next AA want to come here knowing the coach is on the hot seat?
We have the greatest fans but there is a reason “they” call us the lunatic fringe. We would have run K out of town too based on the last 2 weeks of their games. And K has struggled in the early NCAA’s too – get rid of K! Support our guy and let’s help him get better.
The old Coach K argument. It has become the Godwin’s Law of sports boards. It is about as weak of an argument as can be made. Whenever someone mentions K they never mention the thousands of coaches that stunk it up the first three years and continued to suck past those years. Herb sucked his first five years, we kept him and look where we are now.
Continuity in and of itself is good. Continuity of bad coaching is not good. I will leave it up to you on where you think we are but we had continuity with Herb for ten years. What did that get us?
BTW we are called the lunatic fringe because Lee Fowler used the term in an attempt to minimize the valid opinions of people that disagreed with the inept way he ran the AD. It was of course latched unto by opposing fans and the sports media or trolling purposes. But if you think that bolsters your case then far be it from me to point out the flaws in that line of reasoning.
I am not talking about K and his first 3 years. I am talking K now and the last few.
Since his first few years K has been dominate (you know first to 1000 wins and all that) so I have no idea what point you are trying to make.
Rick: Good reply.
Mike: Wow, I don’t even know where to start. Let me address some of your points:
– Arch as a savior: I don’t think Arch is a savior. I think Arch’s success puts pressure on this situation. How long do you hang out knowing what is happening and miss on a potential special coach? The savior was his brother and Fowler @#$()*D that one up the first time and Arizona got smart after the tournament beat down over Duke (I firmly believe this was Yow’s #1 candidate initially, and she hinted as much in her press conference when firing Lowe). Arch wouldn’t actually be at the top of my list if we had an open position, but there’s a segment of the fan base that wants an alum for fear that a non-alum might leave us for bigger pastures (which by the way never happens).– Lunatic fringe: See Rick’s post above. See sports boards off of any team college or professional. If anything, NC State fans are way too patient. Every time a coach sucks, we trot out V references about never giving up. We gave HWSNBN 5 dead years and kept him a 6th due to a recruiting class. We gave Lowe way, way, way too long.
– K recently at Duke: Let me get this straight. Do you actually think we’d “run off” a coach who has his team solidly in the top 10, is the head coach for USA basketball, just pushed over 1000 wins, is an absolute institution, and who brings millions of dollars in value to the institution? Riiiiiiiiiiight…..
– The woe is us, no one wants to take this job line of BS. We’ve had two straight ADs mess up coaching searches in ways that are well detailed. That does not mean no one wanted the job. Both times there were plenty of people who wanted it. We just fumbled on the goal line.
– Recruiting: In case you haven’t noticed, we have zero recruits signed for next season. That issue started well before this horrendous 5-9 stretch of basketball. Message boards have nothing to do with that.
– You want continuity, prepare for it. Gott’s basically got a lifetime contract. I have scratched my head multiple times at some of Yow’s contract moves.
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