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Lastly, on the point about thoughts and beleifs, it is well settled that inaction on racist belief is punishable by law. Examples, denying employment, housing, service, etc on the basis of race. All punishable.
Uh, those are all actions.
As long as you keep your beliefs are in line with the mainstream you have nothing to worry about.
For the record I am against everything Sterling stands for but IMO this should give pause to anyone.
As for what should Silver have done? I am not sure giving in to the players sets the right presendence for any future decisions he has to make. That old saying about the inmates running the asylum comes to mind.
It’s not just about the players, though they, some owners, and fans were quite vocal about what needed to be done. All constituents.
There are also sponsors that pay big money. And they were leaving left and right.
In rapid succession, the mass exodus included used car seller CarMax, State Farm Insurance, Kia Motors America, airline Virgin America, P. Diddy’s water brand, AQUAHydrate, Red Bull, Yokohama tires and Mercedes-Benz.
So it’s not just about the players. It is mostly about business.
Wulfpacker said – And lastly, there is a big difference between racism and stereotypes. There is a power element to racism – it’s about superiority. A stereotype is simply acknowledging differences in groups of people, and sort of lumping them together. There is no power element there, you are just over generalizing. Racism is all about trying to keep others down based purely on ethnicity.
Wulf, you are so right and yet misguided. There IS a big difference between racism and stereotypes, but as soon as one stereotypes and says “all blacks, all indians, all orientals etc” they are immediately labeled a racist.
As I have previously stated Sterling gives pigs a bad name and frankly does not deserve the privilege of owning a team. But to be punished for his thoughts……….
Personally, I think inaction by Silver is the more dangerous precedent. Allowing players to boycott and essentially cancel (or at best postpone) a playoff game (or even worse a playoff series) is a terrible short term consequence (and quite possibly could have only been a threat and would never have happened) and allowing Sterling to continue business as usual would result in far more negative long term consequences.
This is truly a rare situation with a very low probability of reoccurrence. You can argue what Sterling’s girlfriend did was unfair, but there is nothing unjust about what Silver and the other owners are doing to Sterling. There are reasons there are “good of the game” clauses in pro sports bylaws that give the commissioner and other owners the authority to do what they are doing. The other owners may be right to be concerned about this precedence, but I seriously doubt any of them are losing sleep about it.
With regards to the inmates running the asylum, of all the pro sports unions, the NBA players association has the least amount of solidarity. History has shown when there is a threat of them losing game checks, they cave. The owners know they don’t need to give them some cause to rally around.
Uh, those are all actions.
Is it really an action if an application comes across an employers desk, and he or she denies it simply due to the name they see on the front of the application? Or even a landlord for housing application? Or a mortgage company?
What’s been revealed is that racists are able to operate discretely in society. That’s their MO. That is why we pounce on them when they do open their filthy traps (and they often can’t contain it forever) – it serves as more than adequate deterence.
But to be punished for his thoughts……….
He is being punished for his WORDS. He said those terrible things. He is an employer. That cannot stand in society.
Mike, as I have said earlier, Sterling is not being punished for his thoughts. He is being punished for his documented history and because this audio recording went viral to the point everyone knows about it now. If it were Paul Allen the reaction would be quite different. The NBA just can’t afford to continue looking the other way with regards to Sterling.
There IS a big difference between racism and stereotypes, but as soon as one stereotypes and says “all blacks, all indians, all orientals etc” they are immediately labeled a racist.
If I think that most Russians speak funny, or most Asians are shorter than normal, or most Indians are really freakinbt smart, I’m not saying that in any racist way. I am just ackowledging differences in groups of people, relative to my own ethnicity.
But refusing association or service with those same groups because of their ethnicity is an entire different matter. I’m coming at it from some sort of superiority. And that often entails hatred. Hatred that they are within my midst, living as I am. There is a big difference.
Uh, those are all actions.
Is it really an action if an application comes across an employers desk, and he or she denies it simply due to the name they see on the front of the application? Or even a landlord for housing application? Or a mortgage company?
How is that not an action.
I can see you and I are not going to agree at least on the NBA’s action but I think we both agree Sterling is a scumbag. Thanks for not labeling anyone who disagrees, that seems to be the fallback for way too many.
It is a passive action that goes unnoticed. It’s all up there, in the noggin. It’s hard to catch. Nobody sees it. But many have been caught, and their true motivations revealed, and for that I am very thankful.
Good discussion guys – and I think we are all in agreement. I just think the timing is questionable – Sterling was a known racist for years, having said far worse than what came out on tape. Next point, I GUARANTEE there are other owners in professional sports who feel the same way. And if we ban Sterling, then we need to ban Spike Lee and all who have any racist thoughts/attitudes/actions in the entire league.
I echo Mike’s comment. This can be a fairly toxic subject, and everyone is discussing it rationally and without emotion. I’m enjoying reading the different points of view. There are a few I had not even considered.
That is why we pounce on them when they do open their filthy traps (and they often can’t contain it forever) – it serves as more than adequate deterence.
I think that the punishment should fit the crime…and Sterling’s punishment goes far beyond that. People are bringing up past issues…which prove that he is a loathsome piece of trash. But if those past actions weren’t sufficient for punishment by the NBA, then what was said in a private conversations doesn’t justify the penalties levied. The punishment is clearly directed at the quelling the uproar, not because of righteous indignation over what was actually said.
Note that I’m not losing sleep either way.
The punishment is clearly directed at the quelling the uproar, not because of righteous indignation over what was actually said.
Note that I’m not losing sleep either way.
Yeah this while thing seemed like the media trying to flex their muscles.
And agreed
To my knowledge, sponsors didn’t leave in droves whenever the past transgressions occured. And the players certainly didn’t threaten a playoff boycott. There is absolutely a business element, and the Clips were losing millions.
I would say they overpunished to make up for DECADES of underpunishing. It spiralled out of control largely because David Stern was so hands off. And then for the good of the league, Silver had to do what he did.
I was terrified to read this thread, but you guys have all done awesome at being level headed and making valid points on all sides. And no, I didn’t mean “you guys” in a racist way! 😀
This morning while out doing my Sat morning errands I was listening to NPR. Lots of times I turn it off but this morning was a bit more interesting. An interview with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on the subject. I found his view a nice mix of serious indignation along with some concern about using a private conversation as the trigger. I don’t have a link (although I’m sure one can be found) but I did think his comments were of merit.
My view is simple – Sterling has been a dark stain on the NBA for decades. While this incident might not be his worst I’m glad it got things moving to get him away from day to day operations of the Clippers. That said I am concerned about forcing someone to divest a valued asset like the Clippers. In his case possibly warranted but if another owner speaks out on something unpopular (maybe Mark Cuban berating Silver) would that then follow the precedent?
To this point Silver did what he had to do – the players forced his hand with the planned boycott (and good on them I say). Now if another owners gets crossways with Silver over something …?
Here’s the link to the article on Kareem, tractor. I heard the same thing. Very intersting.
http://www.npr.org/2014/05/03/309171062/kareem-abdul-jabbar-on-sterling-theres-light-now
I view this as an isolated incident where the new commish had no choice but to act as he did. I have no firsthand knowledge but I also believe he was happy to do it, as Sterling has indeed been a stain. If other owners are stupid enough now to spew hate as Sterling did, even in private (again, the courts have held nothing uou say to another person is truly private), then they will get what the deserve as well. Something tells me it won’t happen.
Wulf Thanks for the link. I like Kareem’s view on the subject. Hopefully you are right in this will not become the norm for any owner who dares to be a bit controversial. I’m thinking this is indeed a one of a kind incident but time will tell.
OK… Sterling said what he said and the “judicial process” that ensued is what it is… and a little bit more…
We live in times that some consider to no man’s land… a time where the world one lives in is not the world one grew up nor is it the world one’s children or grandchildren will live in for most of their adults lives.
Many suggest that traditional forms of government, political and corporate, are morally bankrupt and Big Money flows like rivers of gold corrupting decision making at the highest levels… including thru the triumvirate maze of Courts, Law Enforcement and the Bar which finds equitable justice slowly, if at all.
In 1787, Thomas Jefferson said, “Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers and be capable of reading them.”
In 2014, if one chooses to update Jefferson, simply swap “newspapers” for “the web”.
Thus we may muse whether or not… the truth may well be … that in these times, it is easier and quicker to find equitable justice online than thru the byzantine Courts.
That said… it may also be worthwhile to recall the Sixth Amendment of the Bill of Rights, as enacted in 1791, guarantees… “the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury… ”
So it may be suggested that today’s online court is curiously loyal to the Constitution, albeit in a somewhat left-handed way.
Time will tell how long Sterling keeps the Clippers… Doesn’t really matter much.
The plain fact is… equitable justice has been served and in today’s online court, Sterling’s case has been adjourned.
Many others will follow Sterling thru similar online judicial proceedings…. most of their names we may never know.
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Whether compelled to by the other NBA owners or by the courts or by public pressure, Sterling should sell right now. It’s in his best interest to do so. If he is granted an injunction or something that allows him to stay in power, Silver will be forced by the NBA players association to cancel the contracts of all Clipper players and coaches and essentially make them free agents (if not all the players/coaches would have standing to sue the team/league for creating a hostile work place). If that happens, the team will be left scrambling. They will have to overpay for lesser players and the team’s value will plummet. But we’ve all heard/read about how litigious Sterling is so I’m not sure which way he’ll go. His health is another issue that could encourage him to sell and get out of the fisheye lens.
If other owners are stupid enough now to spew hate as Sterling did, even in private (again, the courts have held nothing uou say to another person is truly private), then they will get what the deserve as well. Something tells me it won’t happen.
This is what scares me about this event. Who defines what is considered “hatred”? I just have an inherent problem with trying to punish thoughts and words no matter how much I might disagree with them. That is a very scary road to go down.
There seems to be a movement to label people who disagree with the PC movement as “hate”. The first step to controlling people is to control their speech.
I don’t think you have to be PC to think Donald Sterling is a racist POS.
The nice thing about him is he’s out in the open about it. He doesn’t hide it behind coded language.
I don’t think you have to be PC to think Donald Sterling is a racist POS.
The nice thing about him is he’s out in the open about it. He doesn’t hide it behind coded language.
So are you trying to imply anything?
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