- This topic has 86 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
This is not a constitutional case. It is a contractual case. The owners can vote him out, and they will. It is a slam dunk (no pun intended).
The freedom of speech argument is misplaced. The government is not restricting his speech. In fact, no one is. Not even the NBA. He made those statements. If he wants to sue his GF or whomever was behind the recording and release, that is a separate case. It is no different than if I came into work tomorrow morning following a night on the town spewing hateful things, and my boss heard about it. I’d be fired. I can still say those things, but I can also legally be fired for them as well as it reflects poorly on my employer. In short, you may say what you want, but not without consequences. And this is not a government case, so there is no freedom of speech grounds on which to sue.
With that in mind unless he agreed to abide IN WRITING to any provisions that the league sought to bring into their rules after the fact of him assuming ownership then the NBA had better stand by, they will lose on constitutional grounds.
He is subject to the same governance as any other owner in the league. It matters not when he assumed ownership. The rules change all the time. And it is a privilege, and not a right, to be an owner. You are essentially voted in and may be voted out. It’s contractual.
Here is some good legal analysis on the case and the points tou bring up.
First Amendment Claim:
If Sterling does bring a legal challenge, experts said Tuesday, the first thing to understand is that the First Amendment may not help him much.
“Under the First Amendment, people have the right to be morons,” said Bob Corn-Revere, a lawyer at the Davis Wright Tremaine firm and president of the First Amendment Lawyers Association.
But, Corn-Revere said, those hypothetical morons are protected only from punishment by the government itself. In this real-world case, Sterling’s punishment is coming from a private group — whose rules he agreed to obey.
“The First Amendment says ‘Congress shall make no law,’?” Corn-Revere said. “Not ‘The NBA shall have no rule.’?”
On the Property Claim:
The problem is that Sterling, as an NBA owner, had agreed to be bound by the NBA’s constitution. And that document gives the league’s commissioner, Adam Silver, broad powers to punish owners for actions including “conduct prejudicial or detrimental” to the league. Silver announced that he would fine Sterling $2.5 million, impose a lifetime team and NBA ban, and try to force a sale of the franchise.
Experts said the best of Sterling’s legal options would be trying to stop a forced sale of his team. That decision must be approved by three-quarters of the NBA’s owners. Sterling could stop it by persuading enough owners to reject the motion, or — if that doesn’t work — by persuading a judge to throw out the owners’ vote.
But even that wouldn’t be much of a victory. It would only allow Sterling to keep ownership of a team he couldn’t run — a business that might rapidly drown under the weight of his bad reputation.
Fun questions to ask yourself…
1- If owner was black and said this about whites…would he be banned?
2- If Sterling said this same comment about Asians, would he be banned? Jews? Hispanics? Native Americans?
3- Have we ever had racial thoughts cross our mind? Have we made racial remarks in private? Do we want to hold others to a higher standard than we do ourselves?
4- Has Sterling’s other actions in life been taken into account? Is he a good man? Has he benefited society and if so in what ways? Have his actions in the past led us to believe he is racist? Should we not put this comment into perspective of this man in his entirety?
5- Is racism our modern day “witch trials”? Will society look back on this time in 200 years and think how barbaric (sensationalized) our reactions were to racism – whether it be Sterling, Zimmerman etc…?
6- Is racism fair (symmetrical)? Should minorities be held to the same standard as whites – in terms of racist commentary?
7- Would we be surprised if Charles Barkley made this same comment about whites or Hispanics? Would we care?WOW, for once I actually agree with packalum44. Did he/she leave his/er computer on and someone wrote using his/her name?
Here are some answers to his questions.
1 – Spike Lee – still employed by the NBA (although Spike is not an owner he is league employee)
2 –
3 – I am not racist but everyone at one point has sterotyped a group or race of people
4 – Sterling was about to receive his 2nd NAACP award. Yes, he contributes to society with his donations and support of causes. And yes his past actions have been known and pretty much very racist.
5 – I dont like Obamacare, but if I say so publicly I am branded a racist. I dont like Obamacare because I think the plan is awful, not because I am racist.
6 – By definition, racism is any objection based strictly on racial lines/bias so yes, racism should be considered both ways. But we know it is not.
7 – Charles Barkley has stated on TV “I hate white people”. We know it was Charles and his schtick and we take it tongue in cheek.Charles Barkley is employed by TNT, and to my knowledge does not employ others.
Donald Sterling has known documented racist views. He has denied housing to minorities. He is the owner of an NBA franchise, where he can hire and fire as he sees fit. He is a racist, and his superiors and peers have every right to boot him out as he serves as a stain on the league as a whole.
As for some of the other comments, you would do well to read some American history, and open your eyes to the fact that sadly racism continues to pop up in our modern culture today. That is what is so numbing about all of this. It’s really sad.
There certainly are plenty of idiots that proclaim any political opposition is racism. Some claim pollution is racist, statistics, criminal justice, personal preference, standardized testing, etc… Somehow as a society we need to get a grip on these false accusations. There are restrictions on freedom of speech and it’s not the government that is doing it. It is our current “witch hunt” society. Much of this “freedom of speech” talk is not necessarily talking about the actual legal definition, but about the spirit of the right as it pertains to an individual in society. A core value of being American. We should have the ability to critique and discuss issues without fear of false repercussions. But I’m afraid those days are drawing to a close. Do we really have “freedom of speech” when critique of a President is deemed racist? What is to prevent your boss from firing you for those “racist” sentiments? That’s not freedom of speech.
What is to prevent your boss from firing you for those “racist” sentiments?
Nothing.
Did you sign the employment agreement? Are you employed? Then they can do whatever they want with you if they deem your comments to disrupt the workplace, per your employment agreement. Happens every day, my friend.
You can say whatever you would like in your own home. But the workplace is different. The mall is different. The city bus is different. The movie theater is different. The sporting venue is different (your ticket is merely a license).
This is the society in which we live. And a society that does not tolerate overt blatant racism is an American society of which I am proud to be a part. That is an American value, that we have learned the hard way through our collective histories, that I very much respect.
Are you proud of or do you respect factions attempting to stretch the definition of “racism” to include political opposition? Blatant racism is one thing. However, I do not believe you can just say, “if you disagree, you are racist”. That violates our value of “freedom of speech”. Not our constitutional right, but our values as Americans.
Wulfpackr – thank you for your thoughtful, reasonable dialogue on this. (Its the kind of discussion our society should be having.)
I do think it is a good thing that there is condemnation of racist thoughts, actions and words when it comes to whites being racist against blacks.
Where I believe there is a problem is that “ism” is not equal nor does potentially racist actions and what behavior society deems unacceptable.
For example, its fine to call a black Supreme Court Justice an “Uncle Tom” if his political and judicial views are to the right of his race’s consensus beliefs.
Black on black violence is tolerated and even glorified. There is a casual mainstream acceptance of violence and out of wedlock childbirth (when we know the damage it causes).
What concerns me is that as a society we are placing more importance on words than we are actions and that we are only increasingl the racial divide when some racism is deemed more damaging than others.
Finally, you are spot on about this not being a 1st amendment issue – anyone should understand that. It could be seen as a privacy issue – but I am not a huge advocate of expanded privacy protection in the constitution.
Are you proud of or do you respect factions attempting to stretch the definition of “racism” to include political opposition?
I’m looking at this through the lens of the issue at hand (Sterling). I’m not sure I am grasping what you are getting at in the broader sense.
If you are saying that you should not suffer consequences for saying that Obama is a racist, then I would have to ask you where the comment was made. If it was made in the workplace where you disturbed colleagues, and it was well documented, then I’d say you probably have little grounds. But if you made the comment within the confines of your own home, and you suffered some kind of injury, then that gets closer to being a much larger issue.
Let’s be clear, Sterling is suffering these harsh consequences because he is an NBA owner, who is directly subject to upholding his end of the deal as stated in the NBA Constitution. He signed up for it. He has benefitted from the association. And the owners have every right to kick him to the curb as he is very bad for business, and may be harmful to the general public and his employees. He failed his responsibility, that is all. So I am having some trouble connecting the dots to a broader discussion. Silver did exactly what the majority of us would have done. He’s protecting his brand. That’s his job.
What concerns me is that as a society we are placing more importance on words than we are actions and that we are only increasingl the racial divide when some racism is deemed more damaging than others.
I don’t recall decades in our history of whites being, enslaved, raped, abused, tortured, murderer for economic gain. That’s why we are still fighting it as a society today – because it happened. And, sadly, some STILL have a plantation mentality despite years of progress and opportunity afforded to all. It is about context.
It appears you guys are trying to make this into another matter altogether and are (apparently) too afraid to be blunt and say exactly what is really on your minds. You guys think the media (and maybe society in general) has decided it is ok for blacks to be racist against whites (and just about anyone else) but not the other way around? Am I reading this right choppack, statered44, packalum44, et al?
Well I agree with you. Society and the media do give black people more leeway on the subject (for reasons wulfpack stated above). And like I said yesterday, double standards suck; the world isn’t fair. You don’t have to agree with it and you don’t have to take it lying down, but it’s not a battle I’m prepared to fight.
But that doesn’t have a damn thing to do with what the NBA commissioner did and what the other owners may do.
But that doesn’t have a damn thing to do with what the NBA commissioner did and what the other owners may do.
Exactly the way I see it. And the owners will do it, likely in 29-0 fashion from what I hear. And Sterling will mount a legal challenge, as it is his right, and he will lose badly and even more publicly.
And I’d like to reiterate a point that keeps getting lost. Sterling has a documented history of these less than favorable views/opinions/actions with regards to minorities. If it were his first offense or if it had been Paul Allen, the media response and league action would have been completely different.
Listening to sports radio the past few days I was astounded to hear from several national media members (Michael Wilbon, Tony Kornheiser, Bomani Jones, Jamele Hill) who have written stories or talked publicly and openly about Sterling’s transgressions. Kornheiser and Wilbon reminisced about the trade David Stern vetoed (the Chris Paul trade from the Pelicans to the Lakers) which eventually led to CP3 being traded to the Clippers. They talked about how astonished they were that Stern would reward Sterling based on his checkered past. Sterling’s reputation was apparently very well known in the media and in the organization and that may explain why there is such outrage by the media.
… The Donald Sterling Affair is just another “battle” in “The War That NEVER Ended”…
From the colonial Statehouses to the Hall of Congress to the Battlefields of the South too numerous to mention…
… and back to Congress and back to the Statehouses and on to the County Boards of Education and then repeating again and again that well traveled circuit with an untold number of Pulpits and Courtrooms in between…… and yes… on rare occasion… across the sports pages…
… not to mention new venues such as facebook, twitter and instagram….For both sides, a young generation of proselytes simply replaces their elders and fights on… with bloody ground only gained or lost by the inch or foot…
… the extremists of each legion only ever agreeing on one solitary condition…
… “We shall never forgive or forget.”#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!D-Day, exactly on the checkered past. That is my whole beef with this – this event is not something new to anyone in the NBA. Everyone has known for years Sterling was a pig. So why now?
This should have been done years ago. Maybe the Clippers were the laughing stock of the league so they let it go? There was an article in SI a few years ago about it, that no matter how hard they tried, because of Sterling they were always going to be stuck in mediocrity. Sterling was a pig then, is still a pig, and frankly, gives pigs a bad name. But all of a sudden the Clippers are winning so now is the time to force him out?
So why now?
In short, because the tape went viral. The NBA HAD to act. There were talks of a playoff boycot. And they were under intense pressure from the mob mentality media to act as well. I mean, can you imagine what could have happened if Silver didn’t act? Silver is getting a bunch of praise, but a lot of folks think he just did what had to be done – an easy decision.
I don’t know why Sterling was allowed to hang around as long as he did. As closely as I follow sports, I had no idea about his past. I knew he was one of, if not the, worst owner in sports –but I didn’t know he was a racist. Apparently, the league and the media let this slide. I have no idea why. But the tape, and it going viral, was the smoking gun to put this guy in his rightful place.
What concerns me is that as a society we are placing more importance on words than we are actions and that we are only increasing the racial divide when some racism is deemed more damaging than others.
I find myself thinking about this idea a lot. It is an important point, though I’m not sure I fully grasp it. The thing about racism, though, is that it is rarely overt. Here it was, though he didn’t know his voice was going to go viral. Even still, in listening to his remarks, he couldn’t (or wouldn’t) elaborate on his thoughts. There’s a disconnect in a racist. Basically, what he said, was don’t hang out with minorities “just because”. You fill in the blanks. That’s where the hate comes in. He even stated that he knows Magic and finds him to be a good guy, but… he’s black. It’s this underhanded deep rooted thought that (thankfully) makes little sense to the majority of us, and if you aren’t looking for it, you can easily miss it. I’ve missed it before and then later figured it out (makes you feel stupid).
I’ve lived in NC my entire life. Several relatives in my extended family harbor racist thoughts. What has been scary to me is the way it just comes out of their mouths at family gatherings, like they can’t control it, as if they feel others around them feel the same way. They know how I feel (I’ve confronted them several times), and I’m sure think little of me. And that’s the way I would have it – I really don’t care to associate with them outside of these mandatory gatherings every so often. But it’s like an impulse where there is no filter. It’s part of who they are, and they will go to their grave that way. It’s really sad as some of my most cherished relationships in life have been with people that happen to have a different color skin than I. Perhaps they were never fortunate enough to have the same opportunties, or perhaps they were completely closed to the idea. I don’t know, but it is their loss. What a terrible way to go through life. I mean, I have enough baggage in my life. Thank the good Lord I don’t have that kind of hate in my heart as I am certain I’d be miserable if I did.
And lastly, there is a big difference between racism and stereotypes. There is a power element to racism – it’s about superiority. A stereotype is simply acknowledging differences in groups of people, and sort of lumping them together. There is no power element there, you are just over generalizing. Racism is all about trying to keep others down based purely on ethnicity.
My granddaughters are biracial so long ago I had to deal with my issues. In the end I think this all a load of crap. Sterling is and has always been a racist – and has taken actions the hurt people because of his views. I knew that a long time ago. Should he own a NBA team? Maybe or maybe not – in my world he would be stoned but that is another matter completely.
You can say whatever you would like in your own home. But the workplace is different. The mall is different. The city bus is different. The movie theater is different. The sporting venue is different (your ticket is merely a license).
Apparently not because Sterling is bring punished for what he said in private. Imo punishing thoughts and beliefs (no matter how despicable and unpleasant) as opposed to actions is a scary trend. It’s all well and good until YOUR beliefs are the ones being silenced.
Apparently not because Sterling is bring punished for what he said in private.
But the thoughts became public. You don’t have true privacy when you speak to another person, for they can repeat them, and you can even be recorded without your knowledge, as in this case. There are a line of cases exactly on this point. What you choose to say to another is never truly private. Whether the recording is legal or not is another matter altogether (in some states it absolutely would be). The NBA received the recording in the same manner as you and I – through the media. And then they substantiated that it was his voice. So there is no problem there for the NBA. This isn’t a court of law, so it’s not like the tape is inadmissible. This is the court of public opinion.
Imo punishing thoughts and beliefs (no matter how despicable and unpleasant) as opposed to actions is a scary trend.
Again, what would you have wanted Silver to do? He would have been neglecting his responsibility if he did nothing and then allowed the league to tank, even risking a playoff boycot. Is that what you want him to do?
Some are attempting to link this event with some kind of broader constitutional discussion on privacy. I could be wrong but I don’t think Silver really cares. He cares about his job and his league first and foremost, as he should.
Lastly, on the point about thoughts and beleifs, it is well settled that inaction on racist belief is punishable by law. Examples, denying employment, housing, service, etc on the basis of race. All punishable.
What you choose to say to another is never truly private.
That’s why I no longer share my most truest inner thoughts and feelings with anyone except for the voices in my head.
And I’m also very fortunate that Minority Report was fiction or I would have been locked up long ago for multiple homicides I one day intend to commit.
One other point on this as I continue to think about the legality of what went down. If I am not mistaken, the recording was made while Sterling was visiting his former girlfriend’s house. Sterling actually owned the home, but it was his GF’s dwelling place. As such, he has no legitimate expectation of privacy in her home. The courts have made this very clear.
And here are Silver’s remarks on the privacy issue:
Jovian Wei of Fox News asked, “Should someone lose their team for remarks shared in private — is this a slippery slope?”
Silver responded, “Whether or not these remarks were initially shared in private, they are now public, and they represent his views.”
I have a cousin who is managing partner of the law firm that represents Jerry Jones, you know, the guy that more or less told the NFL to stuff it when it comes to licensing of merchandise and to selling sponsorships. Just for grins I called him up last night and had an interesting conversation. The hill the NBA will have to climb in court over trying to make Donald sell is they are going to have to prove tangible detriment. They will not be able to just claim that what he said was detrimental, they will have to real numbers. In this case there is no “measurable or tangible degree of detriment”. Also, and this is important, in his rants, he never once said anything that was derogatory or specifically racist, only that he did not want his girlfriend associating with blacks. He never stated a reason why he didn’t want this. My cousin felt that Donald’s lawyers could make a case that the NBA has no case. Also consider that the courts have ruled in favor more than once on owner’s rights over the associations rights in several situations including Jerry Jones and Al Davis. Davis moved the Raiders not once but twice in spite of every owner going against him. In the end the court sided with the rights of the owner over the rules of the association. And yes, I will agree that I could be fired for saying things I shouldn’t, in Donald’s case he is not subject to employment guidelines, he does not work for the NBA. Also, and this is the most detrimental to the case of the NBA, when Elgin Baylor sued him, Baylor brought to court many items of evidence that his lawyers felt would seal the case against Donald. It didn’t happen, and those things were much more egregious than this phone conversation.
Smarter than the average bear
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
