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I’d just about bet my house that no kid that’s looking at going pro is thinking of that 38k as payment of any sort, especially since it’s already spent, and you can’t get a refund on it.
Forget athletics, if you had a full scholarship, would you NOT take a job making 100k just because your school was free? I suspect very few would. You’d almost be stupid to choose to stay. Take the 100k/yr and save 38k/yr. If professional life doesn’t pan out, go back to school and finish up and you’d still be ahead.
I turned down job offers while in school to finish my degree(s). I was banking that the end game was better than the offers. Some of that evaluation comes from doing engineering degrees versus something like African American studies (i.e. no end game).
I’m not making the athletes should get a degree argument. If they think their degree is basketball, then so be it. It’s just that one more year getting “paid” to develop while getting top flight exposure, medical treatment, dietary help, training facilities, access to trainers, etc. while still having board and some walk around money seems like not as clear cut a decision as the strawman of (getting paid $100k) makes it sound.
Lots of kids look at that decision every year and decide to take another year in college. We have kids that should be making that decision and are not. In and of itself, possibly just bad individual decisions. When paired with the class 4 transfers, it points to bigger concerns about buy in and the program.
Lots of kids look at that decision every year and decide to take another year in college. We have kids that should be making that decision and are not
That’s the crux of the argument.
And I just think it’s not a foregone conclusion that they should have stayed when they were near guaranteed to play pro somewhere.
Especially considering Lacey already has his degree so…..
If the situation was as simple as just, say, a few folks testing the waters early for some money, or a few players opting to go for playing time elsewhere, then it really wouldn’t be a problem. Transfers + early departures + inability to anticipate said transfers + inability to recruit and retain role players + willingness to utilize full allotment of scholarships and space said scholarships properly = big problem. And that doesn’t even get into the game coaching. It’s just not a recipe for sustained success. He can beat anyone on any given night, but his odds of laying plenty of turds are fairly high. The consistency is there. It’s just not excellence.
Gott’s style of play isn’t conducive to playing a deep bench and retaining quality depth in this day and age. He could adapt by either playing faster, or changing his recruiting strategy, or both. He does neither.
Let’stand look at who we are talking about, Rye:
Lo Brown- Detroit Pistons
CJ Leslie- A “case” of his own, yet he had his shot at it.
TJ Warren- Suns
Lacey-Aged out, future?
Cat- Most likely draftedNot gonna put Abu there, because he is still with the program.
Sorry. That’s not a long list of guys with a decision to make. Can you tell me who has chosen the wrong path? That one more season in college would have made the difference?
Fair question.
And I just think it’s not a foregone conclusion that they should have stayed when they were near guaranteed to play pro somewhere.
Especially considering Lacey already has his degree so…..I am pretty sure I read where he was 15 hours short. But was planning on returning to finish. But then again they all say that dont they.
And I just think it’s not a foregone conclusion that they should have stayed when they were near guaranteed to play pro somewhere.
Especially considering Lacey already has his degree so…..I am pretty sure I read where he was 15 hours short. But was planning on returning to finish. But then again they all say that dont they.
Yeah, I was going by his linkedin profile, but that looks like he was listing a major and not a degree. Can’t really tell though.
Cow dog: I’m talking about Lacey primarily, and then Abu if he goes. There have been strong rumblings for some time that the latter would happen. I think he’d have to get some very negative feedback from Scouts not to go, but if that were the case then it’d be a situation where the system actually worked for the kid. I just can’t see him getting drafted.
I’m not sure which bucket to lump TdT into. His exit interviews from Twitter weren’t the best.
It is interesting that the focus is on category 3. It’s the category 4 transfers that have hurt is the most. Pair 4 with 3 and it will be very difficult to ever really build anything.
Lots of kids look at that decision every year and decide to take another year in college. We have kids that should be making that decision and are not.
I’m talking about Lacey primarily, and then Abu if he goes. There have been strong rumblings for some time that the latter would happen.
No offense, but your posts on this don’t really seem to make a lot of sense. You are talking about two players here, one of whom is likely to return to the program next year. Which means you are talking about one player. One player who gave up a 5th year in college to play professionally. One player whose NBA prospects were very unlikely to improve by staying for another year, as his game was fully mature.
As for Abu, can you provide links or evidence of these “strong rumblings” that Abu would leave? As far as I know, all there has been is unfounded speculation on message boards like this one and PP by fans who look for negatives.
An objective view on him is that he is not close to being ready for the NBA and is simply exercising the system to get good feedback. I think he is smart enough to take advantage of the system, and I expect him back and motivated.
It is interesting that the focus is on category 3. It’s the category 4 transfers that have hurt is the most. Pair 4 with 3 and it will be very difficult to ever really build anything.
You are the one that drove this tangent of focus on category 3 with your recent posts.
You made up your mind long ago that you want a coach other than Gott, and your outlook and posts are typically influenced by that bias.
Let’stand look at who we are talking about, Rye:
Lo Brown- Detroit Pistons
CJ Leslie- A “case” of his own, yet he had his shot at it.
TJ Warren- Suns
Lacey-Aged out, future?
Cat- Most likely draftedNot gonna put Abu there, because he is still with the program.
Sorry. That’s not a long list of guys with a decision to make. Can you tell me who has chosen the wrong path? That one more season in college would have made the difference?
Fair question.
Good post. And Leslie arguably stayed a year longer than he should have. So he is a good counter example.
Tau: I know you have issues with me. That’s fine. Argue the post not the poster.
My post focused on the fact that there are 4 categories of transfer. I find it interesting that people focus on the 3rd (early departures to pros that don’t end up in the NBA). Does that mean that they’ve just accepted that we have too many category 4s, and can’t argue it? When you pair 3 and 4 together, it’s not a good story and it makes one stop to think about the category 3s. If you have category 3 transfers paired primarily with early departures that break thruogh, then one looks at those that don’t make the NBA one way. If you see mass departures every year, it looks like rats getting off a sinking ship. THAT is my point.
As for the small sample size of 2 to 3, the whole landscape has a small sample size. In 5 years, we’ve had about 50 total scholarships that have been used across maybe 25 players. If you have 2-3 leave this way, that’s a significant percentage.
Let’s put it another way. Year over year, we’ve lost 50-75% of our scoring, rebounding, etc.. We’re losing far too much of this to kids who haven’t exhausted eligibility. It’s hard to build a program that way.
As for Abu, I hope that he stays. I like the kid and we badly need him. I’m not one that wants bad for the program, even if it makes me “right.” The rumblings though have been consistent since before he ever stepped foot on campus — that he was hoping to be a 2 year guy. I hope he gets honest feedback, takes it in and acts accordingly. My gut says though that if hears from even one NBA exec that they might take him, he’ll stay in the draft.
^rye, I have no problem with you. I’m not sure why you would say so. I simply made an observation that you don’t want Gott as our coach, which you have stated numerous times on this site, and it influences your perspective and posts. Do you find that to be a controversial statement? I didn’t see it or intend it to be taken as an insult. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and reasonable people can disagree reasonably.
I have no issue with your views on what you label category 4 players. I agree Gott has had too many, at least when paired with his sparse usage of available scholarships. Maybe if he used more scholarships, the transfers wouldn’t hurt as much. It is the combination that is the crusher, not just the transfers.
I was hoping for some stability on that front, and when the Martin transfers were announced, I moved into the camp that Gott has one year to prove himself (in combination of on court results and recruiting results) or should be replaced.
But you also mixed that issue with what I quoted about what you label category 3 players, and I think your stance is off base, as I noted above. You said “players” (plural) and then noted that you were really talking about one player who left and one player you assume will leave. Not enough to establish a trend for that category. I’m fine agreeing to disagree on this.
I do not think that Gott is best for our program long term. Given the change that is coming with UNC, Duke, Syracuse, Louisville and Miami, we have a window to get something built to change the pecking order. We should move now so we’re well positioned when that change happens. Instead we will seemingly wait and continue to play catch up.
All the transfers are huge problems, particularly with the thin roster (as you mention). It makes the category 4 transfers even more baffling because it’s not like they’re fighting for playing time. We routinely treat our scholarships in a way that is similar to what teams on probation get. That’s mind boggling.
When there are only about 25 players, 3 is a large group. Lump type 1, 3 and 4 transfers together as a group and we’ve got almost no contributing player staying for four years. It’s impossible to build a program that way. Meanwhile Duke’s got Allen back for another year. That’s my point. If others don’t agree that’s fine. We’ll agree to disagree.
All World Grayson Allen comes back to a team that was already loaded, and our guys, All World or not, seem to leave in droves (for one reason or another). Some programs just have it, lady luck or otherwise. We don’t seem to be one of them. Allen was going to be a lottery pick, yet he returns (smh).
It was pretty common knowledge that Abu told the staff from Day 1 that he didn’t plan to play college ball more than 2 years, and reiterated that before the season started.
Now, he may very well come back, because he’s a very smart kid and knows what hand he’s playing right now.
Until the grant in aid is guaranteed for at least 4 years I will not blame an athlete exploring options or even leaving. Do I personally think Abu is ready for the NBA? No I do not but it is his call.
So let’s get this right:
Abu told staff he was likely 2 and done.
Anya and Freeman are gone after this year as 4 year players
There are no other bigs on our roster.This looks more and more like the situation in football when TOB was fired. However, it may be even worse. We have 8 scholarships on the roster right now (including Abu).
If Abu comes back – and that’s a huge if – he will probably go next year and if you assume that DSJ is one and done, then our staff should be operating under the assumption we have (at least) 9 scholarships open for 2017-2018.
Now, a lot can happen in the next 2 months. However, I would tell you that the “solutions” to our problems aren’t very comforting.
1) grad student transfers – gone before 2017-18 season
2) regular transfers – who use a scholarship this year with no playing at all and then will have 3 years available tops.
3) jucos with limited talent – only eligible for 2 years
4) one and done overseas superstar centers – if we get this Turkish guy, he is gone. In addition, we are competing vs the blues.So let’s get this right:
Abu told staff he was likely 2 and done.
Anya and Freeman are gone after this year as 4 year players
There are no other bigs on our rosterWhat about this scenario, Abu goes pro and Frenchie has to redshirt because of the stress problems. Anya as our only big man.
What about this scenario, Abu goes pro and Frenchie has to redshirt because of the stress problems. Anya as our only big man.
It wasn’t that long ago I would have said you were crazy for even thinking that. But that’s before we went into last year with only one scholarship point guard, and it looks like we might do that again this year.
So let’s get this right:
Abu told staff he was likely 2 and done.
Anya and Freeman are gone after this year as 4 year players
There are no other bigs on our roster.I still dont think its 100% we see both Anya and Freeman playing next year. Constant rumblings about Anya and these health issues/redshirt for Freeman seem to be picking up speed.
As for 2017-2018, that is a huge bullet point that people who do not care for Gott point to. We are looking at a catastrophic type season and if I recall correctly Yow pulled the plug on TOB pretty much for that exact same reason. Try and get ahead of the curve with a new coach.
When you only have 3 recruits in two years and 3 players a year leaving early, it puts you in a shortage of players.
Right now for 17-18 we have Dorn, Kirk and GFK? That can’t be right.It was pretty common knowledge that Abu told the staff from Day 1 that he didn’t plan to play college ball more than 2 years, and reiterated that before the season started.
Now, he may very well come back, because he’s a very smart kid and knows what hand he’s playing right now.
Thanks BJD. Kind of what I was saying, but you’re saying it more directly.
This doesn’t mean Abu will definitely leave. In fact going through the process might tell him what my eyes seem to suggest — that another year would probably help his draft stock. If so, that means this rules/process change has actually worked for the good of a player, which seemingly rarely happens.
It does suggest to me though that this is what Abu has planned and therefore probably wants. It also suggests that it won’t take much in the way of positive feedback to tip him in that direction. We’ll see in the coming months though….
With respect to Freeman, if I were him, I’d think long and hard about taking a medical redshirt. There’s far more life after basketball. Take that year, use the medical staff, trainers, etc. to try and heal. You don’t want to look back 30 years later and wish you’d have done something different.
Now, as I say this, do I think him redshirting is the best thing for NC State’s results next year? Nope. Do I think it’s the best thing for Freeman, who is a student? I’m not a doctor, but possibly so. If so, that’s the decision I’d want for him, and that’s the type of program that I want to support (doing what is best for the players).
Now, should the staff be out recruiting forwards like crazy? Yep. They should have been for some time though. This shouldn’t have changed anything with respect to their sense of urgency.
On topic, I think Pierre can help us land some talent. I like Mox a lot but suspect due to his health issues we’ve been operating at a significant disadvantage on the recruiting trail. Hopefully he’s got some people he can bring along because we really need help.
If someone has already mentioned this fact before then I apologize for being repetitive . State now has a coaching staff consisting of 2 previous head coaches and now a new assistant coach all who were fired from their previous positions. No up and comers at State.
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