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Completely off-topic, but to change the tenor here a bit:
Apparently Jhalil Okafor is the new Hansbrough … A foul has been called for him literally every time he has touched the ball tonight against Elon.
Mommy!!
Grow some skin, peeps.
Irony is thick
^ In all do respect 76, especially your even keel, and due promotion to keys to the car, BTW.
Bringing up foul calls, and Hansborough does not change inflections on this thread.
🙂
It wasn’t a terrible loss, but like Rick said, it was a BAD loss. State has a strong-enough schedule to overcome this one, but losses to Tennessee and Cincinnati would make the Dance invitation a tough one for the Pack.
As for Hess, he ought to be banned from the ACC and maybe college basketball, period. I have a son who referees games in the ACC and Big Ten (not basketball), so I’m loathe to criticize an official, but this guy needs to go somewhere else. Like the NBA.
^ In all do respect 76, especially your even keel, and due promotion to keys to the car, BTW.
Bringing up foul calls, and Hansborough does not change inflections on this thread.
Haha quite true … just aiming for things we might all have common ground on at this point 🙂
Bill at Gettysburg it is a good thing that God had removed Stonewall and replaced him with Ewell. If Stonewall had been there he would not have failed to take the high ground, the outcome would have probably been different and we would be a divided nation.
It was a bad loss. It means nothing against the backdrop of a 28 game season.
It’s easy to conclude that like the last 3 years, we’re looking at a nervous selection Sunday, another Acc tourney where we have to play ourselves into the big dance and if we do advance, may be too tired to finish the run.
But its way too early to say anything other than we sure as heck aren’t knocking the cover off the ball.
Our young guys will get better, however, our coaching has plateaued.
My only problem with Gott ball is the high post offense and the generally nonexistent defense, that’s all.
It was a bad loss. It means nothing against the backdrop of a 28 game season.
It’s easy to conclude that like the last 3 years, we’re looking at a nervous selection Sunday, another Acc tourney where we have to play ourselves into the big dance and if we do advance, may be too tired to finish the run.
But its way too early to say anything other than we sure as heck aren’t knocking the cover off the ball.
Probably the post that best describes my feelings.
Great post chopDAG! What a bunch of naysayers. We’ve benn to the big dance the last three years and we have a ton of ball left to play. Yall act like selection Sunday is next weekend. We have a young team that will get better. GO PACK!! GO GOTT!!
^83… you’re probably right…
At Gettysburg, much like any basketball game that’s determined by the last play, there were a half a dozen or more, “plays” or “players” that according to those who attribute those kinds of things to the Almighty, were providentially removed from the field…
… and with immaturity, indecisiveness, oversize egos, bad facts and numbers, poor strategy, bad timing, all present and accounted for on both sides …
… the History books whose authors were as assured as the Presbyterian Elder, old Stonewall, that the Almighty, who had vanquished the enemy, had also blessed them with a singular revelation that they had, reverently and by their own hand, copied meticulously onto tablets of stone, for the benefit of their readers and future generations, now appear to some to be nothing more than partially documented, scholarly sounding forms of ‘Monday morning quarterbacking’, complete with plenty of political positioning and spin, not to mention, an occasional hidden agenda or disguised backhanded slap towards a rival.
The bottom line is I guess we would have had to be there and see for ourselves what really happened so we could form our own proprietary version of the ‘truth’.
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Coach V had one thing right that was not heard on Seminary Ridge… “Survive and advance”… which is exactly what every D1 top fifty (yes, we are one of those) has been doing all season.
Next game in Wednesday night…
I wonder who’s wearing the stripes…
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!These kinds of losses do happen, even to the better teams. Not nearly as questionable as some of the league’s other losses, as I think Wofford is tournament caliber. You can’t take too much from it this early in the year. We do need to beat the Vols.
As much as I love Reynolds, I’m not so sure about playing games there anymore.
So is Swoffy pissed that Hess doesn’t get it that “anything with a Blue bias” isn’t under a microscope?
"Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!
Yes wulfpack they do. Heck, our juggernaut last year lost to Central… Another “good” team. But yet, we still were able to get a play-in spot and advance to the round of 64 in the tournament.
Will it happen this year again? Who knows- its way too early to tell. I think if we all want to look at it objectively we know what’s most likely.
Big games vs. Ut and wva this week. Those results will tell us much more than this one.
WOW….what comments. May I suggest a double Crown Royal before posting….it calms the nerves…
OK, I wuz there and had seats directly across from the State Bench. KH had not actually had a foot on the sacred Reynolds Kay Yow (is Jimmy V so honored in the House that he dreamt of and started the movement?) when the fans started a BOOOOOO that would have caused the headless horseman to have steered his trusty steed back to the basement.
Next, KH was gloating and strutting. OK, maybe that is his typical demeanor….but he definitely had a “SWAG” about him. Bill on the Beach brings up a salient point.
I am NOT the keeper of all NCSU and ACC Ref’s stats, but Statsheet is really chocked full of data. KH’s two year sabbatical from having Gott as one of the coaches has spanned TWO YEARS. He was NOT invited (he declined….like yeah….how many times did Jimmy V “PASS” the microphone?….get my drift?) to the ACC Tourney. That is why Dorsey and Luckie and the other KH A$$ Licks wore their ceremonial “tribute” to a real HEEL. TWO YEARS is a RECORD for a regular ACC Ref to be “red circled” for one team. It has NEVER happened. Hess sat out one season for WFU….but that is IT…SOMEBODY COMPLAINED….LOUDLY…and KH was banned for 2 years.
During the game, it was not really much of a game….it was BORING. Neither team could hit $$hit. THEN, when Trevor went down, Gott asked a simple question. My lip reading skills are not that finely honed, but he did it in a respectful manner and did NOT charge at KH. Gott’s body language and facial expression were fairly calm. It was, in NO WAY, an affront to KH’s position or his “eminence”. BUT, KH was on a hair trigger….it happened.
THAT, IMHO, changed the tone and tenor of the game. Neither team seemed at ease…sort of a WTFU just happened. Are these two guys going into the chicken wire cage? SO, the scoring slowed down.
Fast Forward to the next…or maybe the next time out. Gott made a point of seeking out KH….even though the other refs were doing their best “Protect the KING at all costs” defense. BUT, when Gott FINALLY got to talk…Orlando Early looked like a court reporter. He was writing as fast as his nimble fingers would work. He would “cock his head” toward whoever was speaking….recording every word, in LONG HAND. I guess it would have been a bit “OTT” to have stuck his SmartPhone in Hess’s face. BUT, Gott DID have documentation.
NOW, for those not there….If you have read this far….this is NOT an exaggeration. AFTER Gott and KH talked, KH was a different REF. In some cases (reality….not the Crown), he really gave us MORE favorable calls. Gott and KH were totally friendly from that point on. I HONESTLY looked at the interaction (I used to travel a lot and studied folks in the airports) in disbelief. On ONE occasion, Gott walked off….Hess was walking away and Hess reached over and patted Gott on the BUTT. THIS WAS observed by all in my party. It was like watching ORW and Mikey work the refs. I have NO idea if our future encounters with KH and his “followers” will turn out. But, there certainly was NOT any animosity between the two of them after than.
We played hard….but we played TIRED. I think (did not check the stats) that BJ was in for then ENTIRE second half. Maybe NOT…but he was out there just to be the BIG GUY WHO BLOCKS.
Again…FF to the last 6 seconds. If you were there, you would have seen us line up. BJ was irate. He jumped up and down and waved his arms. NOT for defense…but to get Lutz’s attention. There was SOMETHING about the matchup that he felt was WRONG. Washington (memory) came OUT during the TO and Lenard came back in. BUT, they ran that SAME back door $$hit and got a basket.
That was the killer. Was 1.9 seconds enough…probably not.
Did Hess and company make the correct call? I do NOT know. Was TA’s knee down? The TV folks say YES….correct. If there was no perceptible air gap between Lacey’s fingers and the ball and the Red Light was ON…then that is it. SHAME ON NCSU if the OFFICIAL clock and the RED LIGHT is not Synched to the nearest nanosecond.
The RED LIGHT….is the STANDARD….that is it….we know the rules….the NCAA knows them….the ACC knows them. It DOES make for interesting speculation that KH did try to fornicate us….but the videos that have been examined seem to say….RED ON….Lacey has Ball.
It was a PAINFUL LOSS….the FIRST time since we left the Campus in 2000 that we lost. A heck of a way to leave our beloved Reynolds.
I agree….I would make a personal donation to kick up the seating so that the MEN can play there again. I would pay extra $$’s to sit in the new digs to watch the men. I WILL purchase Season tickets for the Lady’s in 2016 to help christen the new place…
I have not read the game thread, so maybe this was discussed there (I just finished watching the game). After Wofford’s shot to go ahead, I was surprised that they didn’t go back and make sure that the clock was set right since it was such a close game and by that time you’re counting in tenths of seconds. So, after the wave-off of the shot, I went back to check that. The ball was clearly through the cylinder at 2.0 seconds. If you look at it in super slo-mo, perhaps even 2.1. Is “through the cylinder” when the clock should stop? If so, Trevor should have had his extra .1 second that he needed to get the shot through. But, they never checked the clock or if they did, they didn’t reset it like it should have been.
What is a little encouraging is to see that there’s a guy who can hit a last second shot even if if, this time, he was apparently .1 seconds too late.
I don’t understand why one result proves an absolute. “You suck and cannot hope to get better because you lost to ‘x'” ; “You’re great and can win the national title because you beat ‘x'”.
I also don’t understand the resistance to defer to facts and results – you are what your record says you are. Because the school’s name is ‘Wofford’ they cannot be a good team – is this the reasoning? Wofford’s results this season are every bit the equal of Tennessee’s – in fact – their results are better per the RPI … yet switch the jerseys and is the loss all of a sudden ‘more acceptable’?
Shouldn’t lose to either team? Maybe … maybe not. ‘Bad loss’ is awfully subjective though, and the term doesn’t hold up well for this particular result under the scrutiny of data and selection committee criteria. Tennessee would be a worse loss as it stands right now. “Well, that’s because Wofford just beat N.C. State!”. Really? Well if State is so bad as to lose to Wofford then why would the result catapult Wofford so high? This logic implies that State is either “good” or “bad”, with no results suggesting something in-between the two extremes; it also implies that Wofford will always be ‘bad’ regardless of actual data and results.
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone here state that the Pack is worse than Wofford, or that the loss is acceptable, predictable, or even good. That said, I’m not sure why is there some insistence here on belittling Wofford or N.C. State (or even commenters who point out that this may not be the worst loss ever)?
I’m also curious as to how many would consider a loss to Wichita State in the regular season two seasons ago a ‘bad loss’ before Wichita State made the Final Four? Or a loss to Butler in the seasons they made consecutive National Championship appearances? Or the Florida Gulf Coast Credit Union when they went to the Sweet 16? Miami lost to FGCU that season. Was that a bad loss? Miami also kicked every ACC team’s respective ass that season and won the regular season and conference tournament. Where exactly is the line drawn?
I get it, it’s not a favorable result and it is indicative of State being flawed … but the result is also not the albatross that it’s being made out to be. It’s tough to do in the moment, but I wish there was more of a push to wait until all the results and data are in before we assign absolutes like ‘bad loss’ or even ‘good win’. Looks are deceiving.
… Roo… Yes… the radio guys commented several times as to how Hess and Gott were BFF after the Technical, but they missed the butt pat… Ha!
For the record, Our starters finished the game with FIVE fouls, and our Bench guys had NINE more…
I GOTT a dollar that says we will not do that (only 14 fouls in one game) again this season and No Takers…Normally Gott has been a little more emotional, angry or apologetic, after technicals… not this time..
So let’s feed the frenzy… I told ya’ll John Clougherty the ACC Director of Officials was sitting courtside.. and ya’ll know he was in the referee’s locker room before the game and ya’ll know he had earlier dropped by to say Hello to Dr. Debbie too…
Think WWF… not WTF… the whole Technical thing was per-arranged…. as is …
“ya’ll want to have some ‘fun’… let’s do this…”Who wouldn’t trade one silly little technical before the first TV timeout for only 14 fouls called on your team…
If we can count on that … I want HESS to do ALL our games…. especially against the Blues and especially in their gyms….
Uncle Roy will faint and Coach Rat’s hair will turn gray…
—————Anya played 36 minutes… and..
I GOTT another dollar that says he will not do that again this season and No Takers…Yes… we were tired… but Nobody has pointed out that iT was Exam Week at NCState and nobody GOTT a vacation… where student atheletes go to class and take their own exams…
Yes… Wofford is a good and experienced team and the clear trend during the ‘one and done years’ is that ‘small schools’ with guys that have played together 3-4 years are more competitive than ever… especially against the ‘one and done’ name brands…
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So let’s turn the Red Light Off and let’s talk about Tennessee…
I don’t know ‘nuttin ’bout ’em…
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!There’s no such thing as a “Good Loss” (Unless you’re Bama Football or UNC Basketbal) so I hope that can be put to rest. A loss is a loss is a loss. “Good Losses” and “Bad Losses” will all get figured into your RPI and that is the only weight it appears the Selection Committee will have it carry. I say the Selection Committee because really that’s all we’re talking about right, getting into the NCAAT as an at-large bid? There is your RPI (good losses, bad losses, wins on the road, wins at home, SOS, and all the other things people want to parse when talking about the last 4 IN/OUT) and then there’s Quality Wins (Top 25 & Top 50 RPI Wins), everything else is just noise.
So overall the Wofford game came down to hurting State’s RPI thus hurting their at-large bid. As for Wofford’s RPI let’s not go overboard with where any school’s RPI is just yet, it’s too early in the season. Wait until February when there is enough data to make the RPI somewhat useful, until then it’s only speculation if it would have been a “Good Win” come selection time. I’d also like to add let’s wait and see if Wofford has the resume to get into the NCAAT on it’s own or simply because they won the SoCon and got the automatic bid, big difference between the 2. Let’s not go crowning them the next Seth-Curry-Davidson this early into the season.
Losing to Wofford has a big negative effect because of their name right now more than anything. How can you say you’re a program moving in the right direction when you trip up at home to Wofford? Most people aren’t going to review the game. Most people aren’t going to find out how well they did last year or at the end of the season compare outcomes. They are going to see NC State lost at home to Wofford and that’s it, it’s the name that matters.
Now for the “terrible loss” aspect, it’s how they lost that matters. It’s another up late and blow the lead outcome that is becoming all to familiar with Gottfried coached teams. It’s a pattern and patterns must be looked at. This time it wasn’t due to poor FT shooting luckily but it did happen. I haven’t poured over this season’s stats yet (yeah I know but I swear I feel okay) so I’m not going make any definitive assumptions (like that?) just this moment.
Can we PLEASE stop with the “YOUNG TEAM” nonsense. It’s 2014 and guess what, Everyone is young. Players leave early or they transfer, it happens and because of that most teams are predominantly freshmen and sophomores. It’s called Talent AND Coaching. Want to know who isn’t young? Teams without high tier talent. Let’s take a look at who was playing in this particular game and see the experience differences:
NC State: Starter (R-SR, R-JR, SO, SO, SO) Bench (SO, FR, SR, FR)
Wofford: Starter (SR, JR, JR, SO, SO) Bench (FR, JR, FR, FR)Doesn’t appear to me that Wofford was a heck of a lot older than State, if at all.
Look I have my opinions about Gottfried and I’ll share them more at a later date but for now, we’re a transition offense team and if teams continue to hang back to stop State from pushing the ball then State is down to Lacey being Lacey and Turner getting En Fuego for a half and burying 3’s, otherwise it’s painful to watch.
Turnovers killed us! So we tried to get the ball to our big guys, but they couldn’t catch the damned thing. We even hit our foul shots and still lost by one!!! And it wasn’t just one big man; it was the whole group.
Wofford roughed us up. I’m mad as Hell about this. When they hit one of our guys, were supposed to send one of theirs to the morgue. Anya had zero fouls. We were Charmin.
Just had to get that off my chest.
Jig with another good post. He restated three things I have been pointing out
1) It is not a good loss. It will not look good coemmme selection Sunday
2) The way we lost it was bad
3) We are not a young team in this era of college basketballHe also made good points about the RPI and that getting into the NCAA because they won the SoCon is not that impressive.
… Anya had zero fouls. We were Charmin…
… and I GOTT another dollar that says he won’t do that again and no Takers…
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Someone posted earlier we are a bad rebounding team? We are 12th in the country in rebounds per game, 22nd in the country in rebound margin, and 2nd in the country in defensive rebounds per game. There are a lot of fair criticisms that can be made about this team right now, but poor rebounding is clearly not one of them. These guys had an off game for sure, but usually Freeman, Washington, Abu, and Anya are rebounding machines.
Someone posted earlier we are a bad rebounding team? We are 12th in the country in rebounds per game, 22nd in the country in rebound margin, and 2nd in the country in defensive rebounds per game. There are a lot of fair criticisms that can be made about this team right now, but poor rebounding is clearly not one of them. These guys had an off game for sure, but usually Freeman, Washington, Abu, and Anya are rebounding machines.
Great point. I think I made that comment so thanks for the correction.
Our offensive rebounding is around 101 so that is a weakness but we do seem to be cleaning the defensive boards. One exception to that is the end of the Wofford game when Wofford had two offensive rebounds to allow them to take the lead.
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