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IMO Parrish et al are just outing themselves as ill-informed, surface-level gadflies.
And in other late-breaking news, water is wet. 🙂
That said, you can lead a troll to facts, but you can’t make him think.
Ain’t that the truth.
I’m so glad that we are not a “great place” that any coach would want to work for. This kind of crap comes from ESPN a$$holes.
Guess what – coaching at NC State is a tough job,
You are in the shadow of 2 of the most successful basketball programs and coaches of all time.
You are NOT the de facto flagship school of the state or even your metro area.
You don’t enjoy the favorable media coverage and popularity that comes with #2.
The local media can be downright hostile towards you.
The program has had great success, so expectations, pressure and the attention of the fan base are definitely above average for a P5 school.
You play in a tough conference.
You play in the arena equivalent of the family minivan (before Sirius radio, screens) – it holds a lot of people, but has zero personality and the vehicle itself hinders excitement.
The fans expect you to win without cheating.
4 of the last 5 coaches were fired or resigned under pressure.However, on the other hand:
The last 3 coaches were capable of bringing in Top 25 ranked talent on a regular basis.
2 of the last 3 coaches have been to Sweet 16s and have made multiple NCAA appearances.
The university’s leadership and big money donors hasn’t had a coach with less than a 5 year tenure since the late 60s.
None of the last 4 coaches have proven themselves great P5 coaches, yet you still have items 1-3.
The program’s history, fan passion and attendance are above the P5 average.
The Pay will likely be above average for the P5.
NC State doesn’t have a modern day equivalent of Coach K or Roy – be successful, and you won’t be in anyone’s shadow. There is no reason, NC State can’t be the equivalent of a Duke or Michigan State or Florida in terms of success if you are the right coach.Guess what – most rewarding jobs are tough. The job at State is no different. It does have its own unique set of challenges, but what job doesn’t.
I still think that part of the perception problem lies with the last 5 years of Sendek. This was when that “The NC State job is a really tough one” narrative really became front and center. The causes are debatable – I think LAF played a huge roll in this – but perception is reality, and for now, that is the de facto reality.
Many in the media think that you can’t win big at NC State, in spite of the fact that NC State did win big over several decades. They see this past history resulting in intense fan expectations, that make the job a “thankless job.” Too much pressure and expectations when they only won by luck and/or cheating more than 20 years ago.
Guess what – these same group of people said the same exact thing about Clemson football. And that’s the retort to the pundits making this claim.
Many in the media think that you can’t win big at NC State, in spite of the fact that NC State did win big over several decades. They see this past history resulting in intense fan expectations, that make the job a “thankless job.” Too much pressure and expectations when they only won by luck and/or cheating more than 20 years ago.
Yes and a lot of that was with a HS coach (Case).
I am so sick and tired of all this stuff.
There is too much media, that CBS article had 422 posts (when I looked); everyone running off at the mouth and no one listening.Bloggers, writers, ESPN hosts, Bilas, Gminski, how about you STFU! And BIT ME TO BOOT!!!! Let Debbie do her job and if the chips fall bad you can tell us what losers we are after the fact.
These guys think they set policy on sports.I have said many times: when V left State, unx had 10 ACC championships State had 10 and Duke had like 8; unx had 2 NTs, State had 2NTs and Duke had 0.
How do those numbers look now?Yeah State fans expect more and we deserve more.
SO BITE ME!!!!
Hey Bilas, Gminski, how did your f’ball program look before Cutt came? They were big time way back, Cut came after 4 seasons made them respectable with 4 straight bowl appearances but last year was 4-8. Wonder how many more of those he can do and keep his job?
Cut is as good as Duke can do but I bet they’ll cut him loose if lays another egg.Everyone who went to the Rose Bowl at Wallace-Wade is dead and almost everyone who attended an ACC Tourney at Wm Reynolds is about dead, you guys keep this talk up and everyone who remembers when it was NCSU & unx and Duke and Wake were tag alongers to keep us honest will be dead soon.
If UVa can revive, if VaTEch can revive, then we can revive.
I quit looking at FB during the election cycle and it was liberating, I’m about to take the same vow from internet/cable sports.
From an ESPN Insider article by Jeff Goodman and some other dood (I can only see the beginning because I refuse to pay for it):
“It wasn’t all that long ago that NC State fans and athletic director Debbie Yow were ecstatic with Mark Gottfried.” That’s the first sentence, and for the life of me I don’t recall anyone being ecstatic with Gottfried. I think for the most part, at first it was “who?”, then “OK, this might work out” and now “what the WTF?” I have been ecstatic about the TEAM, especially getting to the Sweet 16, but IMO those events were lightning in a bottle and not the result of building a program. Actually it was all the more frustrating knowing that the team could compete, but lack of leadership (and defense) held it back from being a consistent contender. 2¢.
Of course the lead photo is Arch.
See links below for interesting articles about Gregg Marshall;
IMHO, Gregg Marshall could take our program to the top and be in the Hall of Fame when he retires 20 years from now.
We missed out on Marshall in 2011 ($$$?). Where would the program be today if we had ante’d up? At this point, DY and Dr. Woodson (and Mr. Murphy and Mr. Goodnight) should realize that we have to spend the money.
I was calling for Marshall when he was at Winthrop.
His teams there showed all the signs: aggressive both in offense and defense, mentally tough, extreme effort, well positioned/placement, good understanding of flow and timing and good clock management.
State was the perfect fit but they hired Sidney Lowe to quiet the fan base after flubbing the search.
McCallum
Andy Katz of ESPN fame “interviewed” FIRED HC Mark Gottfried during the half of the Valo – Oakland Game…
Gee, Mark, you went to the NCAA 4 out of the past 5 years and also advanced to the Sweet 16 twice. You also recently beat ranked Duke at HOME. Why do you think you were fired?
I guess that AD Yow thought that our wins this year were not adequate and decided to go in a different direction. The league is much stronger. We have a young team and we had some tough losses.
We had a phenominal practice today…probably one of the best of the season. We will play on and see how it pans out….
Neither pointed out that it is almost statistically impossible for Coach Gottfried’s TWO final seasons to match what Sidney Lowe did in his final two seasons. Lowe was 37 out of 69. Gottfried will be pushing it go get to 32 out of 65…. Minor point of course.
All that was missing was…
Gee, Mark, that is really a bummer, but we are looking forward to working with you again and there are a lot of your fans that will be looking forward to getting up close and personal with you as you travel to the games…..Thanks for the interview…..did I ask the all the questions that you texted me?
The gamesmanship have begun….
“Yeah, beating Dook was great Andy, that was our second win in a 12 game stretch of futility including the 51 point beatdown at the Holes, losing to BC, GT and Wake. Twice. But hey, we went to the tourney a while ago, right? Did I mention that we’re 325th in scoring defense? Pretty good if you ask me. The ACC is tough. Boggles my mind how Virginia can be number 1. They must practice that stuff. But who cares, we’ve got the #1 PG in the country. How you like them apples?”
With the 24×7 news cycle thing filtering into every aspect of life we will always get these sort of things. That said we have not run a major coach search without the jackals nipping at our ankles.
My take on the whole issue is Gott did a few goods things and a lot of not so good things. Regardless the result was unacceptable (just as Lowe’s was). I do think as a program we might be a half step better than the Lowe years but the question (as always) is can we make that next step. A prospective coach that is afraid of Huckleberry or the Rat is not the right coach for NC State. A coach that can’t or won’t be a coach is not either. I hope we can have a coach search for a change that is not a clown show.
In addition to the “qualifications” listed above, The “next” NCState basketball coach needs just one intangible…
He needs to bring a solid 3 to 7 year combination of patience and drive/determination to the table…
The answer to the “Blues”… is simple. Each of their HOF Head Coaches will retire during that time frame, if not sooner, as will, Boeheim at ‘Cuse and Larranagga at Miami.All he needs to do is — the rest of the ‘right things’ from the start and be patient, and avoid the “quick fixes” (we’ve enough of that this season to last a lifetime)…
That’s the solid way to get to and stay at the top in the ACC.
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Andy Katz of ESPN fame “interviewed” FIRED HC Mark Gottfried during the half of the Valo – Oakland Game…
Gee, Mark, you went to the NCAA 4 out of the past 5 years and also advanced to the Sweet 16 twice. You also recently beat ranked Duke at HOME. Why do you think you were fired?
I guess that AD Yow thought that our wins this year were not adequate and decided to go in a different direction. The league is much stronger. We have a young team and we had some tough losses.
We had a phenominal practice today…probably one of the best of the season. We will play on and see how it pans out….
Neither pointed out that it is almost statistically impossible for Coach Gottfried’s TWO final seasons to match what Sidney Lowe did in his final two seasons. Lowe was 37 out of 69. Gottfried will be pushing it go get to 32 out of 65…. Minor point of course.
All that was missing was…
Gee, Mark, that is really a bummer, but we are looking forward to working with you again and there are a lot of your fans that will be looking forward to getting up close and personal with you as you travel to the games…..Thanks for the interview…..did I ask the all the questions that you texted me?
The gamesmanship have begun….
This is precisely the reason you dont let him finish out the year coaching. Fire him and move on. Dont let him stick around to do this and let him form the argument of why he was fired.
Its also telling that in 2 interviews that Yow has given she has brought up a coach drinking and the search committee looking into a coachs background.
Wolfpack92Owen,
Can you share the links with us. I found one and it is typically Debbie Yow. She is assertive and positive and makes no bones about what she wants and how she intends to go about getting it.
With all the “noise” of the last search, it is difficult to fault her for the Shaka Smart’s wife was the unforeseen wildcard…..and that VCU really did mortgage the farm to keep him….and did that repeatedly until it was not really a viable financial situation for him. I’m willing to bet that she had a blood oath from Coach Doeren’s wife that she was ready to come to Raleigh….before the lawyers started hammering out the LOI.
AND, when you look at how Shaka has performed at Texas, we probably are better off, for at least the first 4 years with Gottfried…
After that, the record speaks for itself. I feel more confident after reading the following than I have in a long time….
https://ncstate.rivals.com/news/q-a-debbie-yow-exclusively-breaks-down-coaching-search
Yow is by far the best AD we’ve had since Willis Casey and the 1st one with “a pair” since Casey and I don’t get the criticism.
Thanks for the link to the Yow interview – well worth reading.
To me this was very interesting.
“What we need to do is to stay focused and remember the type of individual we want, be patient meaning we in all likelihood will have to wait to talk to someone we consider to be special. We can’t wait forever though. I’m not waiting until the Final Four.”
GC
But Casey screwed us out of Sloan, Holtz and eventually Valvano so that is faint praise indeed. Is Yow better for this day and time – we shall see. I think DY has been competent but it is judgement day – can she deliver?Calipari goes off about Gottfried’s firing:
““We’re firing coaches in midseason. Are you s——- me? We’re firing coaches in midseason. You know what I’m putting my contract? You can fire me at midseason but you’re going to have to pay me $3 million. Oh, you’ll let me stay now, won’t you. … Every coach in the country PUT IT IN YOUR CONTRACT. What if Mark Gottfried goes on a run at the end and gets to the NCAA Tournament, which he was in four out of five years? Two Sweet 16s, which is not done at NC State. What happens if he now if he goes and wins and gets another team [in?] He had good players but they’re young, they’re like my team. It’s hard to do this with young guys.”
What’s with all the hate toward State? Coaches get fired all the time. What am I missing here? I have to say though that the comments are pro-State.
Oh and “Two Sweet 16s, which is not done at NC State.” WTF? Thanks Cal. And thanks Mark, I have to think he’s been making some calls. I say can him for good now.
He should concern himself with another crop of one and done.
When the WOP at Kentucky opens a spot on staff for lover boy then we will see.
Just beating his gums, it’s not like lover boy has a wife, 3 kids, a mortgage and just lost his job at the Foundry in Biscoe.
McCallum
What’s with all the hate toward State? Coaches get fired all the time. What am I missing here?
This particular instance is not hate for State. He’s just sticking up for a colleague. You have to admit that our AD has created an interesting situation here. I can’t think of another like it. He has a point. What IF we do a remarkable like Syracuse did a few years back???
He has a point. What IF we do a remarkable like Syracuse did a few years back???
Wulf, if we do that I’ll have a stroke! Its not like we’ve been playing well and just come up a little short; we’ve been getting killed 24-51 points with one of the most talented rosters we’ve had in years. There is something totally wrong with this team and it starts at the top.
And I understand that argument too. But let me ask this: even if Gott turns it around and ends in a flurry is he really still worth keeping? Would his body of work last season and this indicate this is an anomaly or a trend. As has been pointed out elsewhere he a patch it together guy, he’s not a program builder. Plus he obviously doesn’t endear himself to his players.
I don’t care if Gott wins the national championship this year.
He doesn’t deserve another year. People want to view these things in a fishbowl…
1. “he has been to the tournament 4 times in 5 years.” – Yes, he has in first 5 years at NC State. But, he has never been higher than an 8 seed, and 2 of those 4 times he was likely one of the last 5 teams in.
2. “He’s been to 2 Sweet 16s in those 5 years.” – Yes, he has. But there’s more to basketball season than the NCAA tournament. His record in the other 2 main “seasons” is far from outstanding. In his first 4 years it was solid. However, the last 2 years, it has been very bad.It sounds like NC State should release its own talking points to counter the talking points of the media:
1. We don’t believe ESPN and the sports media have our best interests at heart, so the public should keep that in mind when they do what they do…
2. This year’s team is one of the worst defensive teams in ACc history. As a matter of fact, in the last 10 years, there has been 1 team worse defensively.
3. Speaking of defense – Gottfried’s defenses are the main “on court” reason he is being fired.
4. It’s year 6 – if he was building anything it would be obvious. What should be obvious is that he’s not. If the roster is young and inexperienced – this is Gottfried’s fault.
5. If Gottfried is such a great coach I look forward to facing him in the future when we play other P5 schools.
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