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The song that fits for me is one I heard just now on the way home from Church (needed to cleanse my soul after yesterday) is Pink Floyd’s (Un)Comfortably Numb. Alternative lyrics filled my head and seemed all too fitting. Head shaking.
Luke DeCock ripped him in his article today. Would like to hear DDs response to that.
You guys do realize we have 0% chance of picking up Les, right?
thanks… GeoB..
Can anybody seriously argue with this?
————————–One Better Solution than changing AD && Coaches…
1. Refund, in payments if necessary, all LTRs and other “unearned” donations to WPC.
2. Cut Tickets Prices to $10-$25 depending on sections.
3. Free Parking on a First Come, First Serve basis.
4. Cut compensation for all Coaches by 1/3-1/2 — easier than you might think — no incentives, no TVshow, no backdoor payments.
4. Open the parking lot at 8AM on Game Days.
5. Show the mistakes and bloopers on the Jumbotron with laugh tracks, instead of the highlights with Music.
5. Win ONE GAME A YEAR. that is — Beat UNx every year.With Football as merely the excuse for the Best Party in North Carolina,
Let the Party Begin!#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Wuf, I’m just messing with you. I was just making a tongue-in-cheek sexist interpretation of your gif.
Yeah, I probably knew that.
😉Luke DeCock ripped him in his article today. Would like to hear DDs response to that.
If he’s smart, nothing. What is there to say?
DD should be toast. Will the “money” be able to influence a decent hire? Probably not. We are NCSU. But I am still glad we didn’t hire Chad Morris.
I started to post a new thread, but this one seems to fit what I wanted to post….so here goes….this will be (sigh…) LONG….but it, to me, make what we face a little more simplistic.
OK…quick summary. Factoids….based on memory and research and also documentation.
The WPC does NOT provide ANY compensation to Coach directly or indirectly. Their charter was “changed” during the Valvano Witch Hunt by edict….from the BOT, BOG, Faculty Senate, Dr. Monteith and Joe, the guy who swept the floors in Reynolds. The WPC provides funds for Capital Improvements (new and remodeling or upgrading) and Student Athletic Scholarships. The Rams Club provides funding for (fact) Larry Fedora and Roy Williams. The data published from time to time indicate this is at least 25% or greater.
Therefore, we can NOT solicit “Donations” for a contract buyout of Coach Doeren without modifying the stated purpose of the WPC. Whether, a private funding drive could be done with absolutely NO allegiance to the WPC, I KNOW NOT. SO, that option seems like a closed door.
The NCSU Athletic Department is one of the few (last time I could find data) in the country that actually operates at break even or a small profit. Therefore, we have financial integrity and will not pursue “options” that would cause us to operate in the RED (pun!) or at a loss. Therefore, a buyout of Coach Doeren would require additional Revenue. In addition, it is unrealistic to expect a replacement coach to work at Coach Doeren’s present salary. As best I can divine from the various sources, Coach Fedora probably makes 50% MORE than Coach Doeren. NOW, UNC is NOT a benchmark….they have had their issues….but they have, statistically, a better record for Coach Fedora than we do with Coach Doeren. You can pick any school of the same size in the ACC or others and then look up their info an decide “WHO” you want to emulate. SO, The Hat was my choice….
I used to do a LOT of Make vs. Buy and Move vs. Operate and similar scenarios. At church this morning and at my GS’s soccer game this afternoon, Coach Doeren and “what to do and how to pay for it” was a major topic of conversation. I then started to contemplate it and also some other little factoids.
WE, the FANS, are going to have to BITE THE BULLET and FUND any coaching change. NOW, here is where the logic finally hit me…but maybe I am all wrong. MOST of us are “indentured purchasers”. By that I mean the we have LTR’s and have made substantial payments to our pledges. IF we do NOT continue to pay off the pledges or IF we do not purchase our annual Season Tickets, we forfeit ALL of our pledge $$’s. SO, we are captive…and if the product (program’s win/loss) is NOT acceptable, there is really NO RECOURSE. Remember, many of the OTHER ACC schools and the OTHER big 5 Conferences have booster clubs that CONTRIBUTE to the Coach’s compensation….and THEY can make decisions and have a voice in the process….NOT US… Say Thanks to all the cowtowing that went on during the Jimmy V character assassination.
SO, it hit me….work up a business model and see what the cost would actually be. I did this, sort of, in my head with a calculator….and it surprised me. I decided my logic was flawed and I ran an Excel Spreadsheet on it. I got the SAME answer….but I used the SAME logic….sort of checked my math.
SO, here is the BOTTOM LINE….IF you accept my assumptions below….then for the sum of around $7 per GAME per TICKET (for the next 3 years), we could do TWO THINGS…..
Pay Coach Doeren’s Severance…..
Employ a NEW coach with a 50% increase in Coach Doeren’s total compensation…..and we would then be competitive with UNC (and others as well).
GOT ALL THAT….THERE WILL BE A POP QUIZ…..You can take my data and plug it into Excel or do the math by hand. I made a FEW assumptions….which you always have to do. IF I am incorrect, then I offer a Contingency to make the change. You add a 15% increase to the Concessions….That would amount to, conservatively, about $250,000….which could fill in if ticket sales dropped or also provide additional funds for a “better” coach.
Here is the assumptions that I used….hope you can follow the math….and the logic. We have a LOT astute folks with a variety of professional (current and retired) experience….I URGE them to read this and try to understand my logic and see if they can, using their own model, verify or correct mine. Hope you made it this far….
Games per Season 7
Carter Finely Capacity 57,583
Fans Paying per Game 40,000
Student Allocation 17,583
Total Tickets sold per Season 280000
Buyout of Contract $840,000
Price per Ticket for Buyout $3.00
Doeren Guaranteed Base $840,000
Doeren Supplemental $1,360,000
Doeren Total Compensation $2,200,000
Percent Increase for new coach 50%
Annual salary increase $1,100,000
New Coach Total Compensation $3,300,000
Price per Ticket for increase 3.93
Total cost for new coach $6.93
Continbency…..Concession Price Increase
Percentage of fans using Concessions 35%
Average Concession Purchase $12.00
Concession Price Increase 15%
Gross Increase in Revenue per Season $253,941
^Roo…
Not Bad…
But take what you GOTT and what I GOTT and add them together…
One Better Solution than changing AD && Coaches…
1. Refund, in payments if necessary, all LTRs and other “unearned” donations to WPC.
2. Cut Tickets Prices to $10-$25 depending on sections.
3. Free Parking on a First Come, First Serve basis.
4. Cut compensation for all Coaches by 1/3-1/2 — easier than you might think — no incentives, no TVshow, no backdoor payments.
4. Open the parking lot at 8AM on Game Days.
5. Show the mistakes and bloopers on the Jumbotron with laugh tracks, instead of the highlights with Music.
5. Win ONE GAME A YEAR. that is — Beat UNx every year.With Football as merely the excuse for the Best Party in North Carolina,
Let the Party Begin!Let’s Add a $20 entry fee per vehicle to the Party…
that’s should about double our revenuesPLUS….
we don’t have the added pressure of having to live thru the ups and downs for 3-5 years as we MIGHT build a championship program…want do you think?
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!BOTB….glad you are feeling frisky. Assumed you were engrossed in the WS, since the Cubbies were trying to avoid a home loss that cost them the title…Send your suggestions to AD Yow. Her email address is listed on the NCSU Campus Email Directory. Google it. She usually responds with in a few hours, no matter the subject.
I did NOT call for her removal. I merely put together a business model to see exactly the “magnitude” of replacing Coach Doeren. I have heard the “we can NOT afford the $2,520,00 buyout.
Based on the serious comments here about such, I wondered how many folks would sign on for a $7 ticket price increase…which presumably, would be halved in 2020.
I did not want to muddy the water with any “rebates” that NCSU would get should Coach Doeren decide to reenter the coaching profession. He does not seem to have that “air” of a broadcaster, but you never know. Pair him up with a Don Meredith OR Cosell type…and you never know.
I will put your suggestion on the list of things to add to my spreadsheet when I have a few minutes or find my missing “RoundToIt”
^Seventh Inning Stretch…
‘Roo…
One of the “benefits” of my plan is that nobody losing their job. For other scenarios, You might to figure something for indirect transactions costs and impute something for the qualitative.
I wonder how many people would pay $20 a vehicle to go to the drive in and never go in the stadium even though the most expensive ticket would be $25.
As for the refunds… that’s up to the WPC, as you correctly state. That said, the University should buy the WPC out — it’s a F’ing scam anyway == when the government gets private citizens to build it’s buildings.
The University Balance Sheet can stand the pain without issue… all they GOTT to do is use the lease payment from the Hoffman Forest — the one, the people made so much noise about selling that the Developers backed out…
Lastly, you might figure some cost/benefits for the improved mental and physical health for the Wolfpack Nation due to reduced stress — don’t leave out a reduction is the Nation’s self medication out of pocket expenses.
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Nothing like trying to apply logic to an emotional and illogical scenario. I’d rather rant and bang my head against the wall. At least I would feel better when I stopped.
I enjoy a little ranting as well, but I appreciate the scenarios ‘Roo and botb laid out. Heck, at a minimum they add a little bit of levity for some of us that could really use it.
In all seriousness, these two proposals represent the ultimate “Fish or Cut Bait” decision point. Very interesting, at least to me anyway.
Well, I was in a totally serious mode yesterday…and today as well. It is nice to fantasize about what might happen….and that is what we often do about the upcoming game.
Reality finally, for me, set in. I equate my “ah ha” moment to a work situation where the executive were looking at every facility with an “evil” eye. I had done “close vs. continue” work-ups on most of them before and had good notes. I reran, using current data, all of them. It was apparent to me that unless I “Fudged” (today’s word would be RIGGED) the data for the plant where I spent a long period of time, it was ONE of the “low hanging fruits”. I probably could have changed a few variables in some of the formulas and made it marginal. BUT, in truth, its time had come. That was a very low point as I was then responsible for building its replacement in Mexico as well as purchasing new processing equipment for that factory and installing it and starting it up. The Plant Manager and I were not “drinking buddies”, but I closed the door and laid out the facts and told him my dilemma. Both of us then checked and rechecked the data and the assumptions. Even with a little bit of favoritism, it was obvious what had to be done and he signed on. We had BOTH fought the good fight…and tried our best to salvage the plant….but it was, in the end, futile. We also had a fiduciary responsibility as middle to upper corporate directors to provide the best return on stockholder’s investments. THAT was sobering….but I did drink a little after that to drown my dismay.
That is about where I am with NCSU. As much as I respect DD and his ethics and character, he is NOT living up to “his” side of the bargain. I do think he is trying, but if seems that he is in over his head….and if we expect to be competitive in the ACC, which is improving, then a change is needed. EVEN IF he runs the table, it will, in my opinion, but just DUMB LUCK. IF I thought he had a well thought out program and this was the beginning of a consistent improvement, then I would not be as critical.
SO, it is what it is. If we want to improve, then AD Yow has got to make the call. I do NOT envy her. I think that the math and logic is correct.
SO…to ALL SFN and State Fans….do you want to spend $50 per ticket (total for season) MORE for the next 3 years to say goodbye to Coach Doeren? IF so, then she needs to know that. I would be hesitant to cut him loose if I were she. IF she does it, then she has potentially “saddled” her successor with a coach NOT of his (her, it?) choosing….as that coach will be with us for two more years AFTER the new AD signs on. Sort of like hiring Jimbo and Bowden NOT wanting to “leave the building”. She tried that at Maryland and the results were disasterous. SO, I don’t know if she has the drive and mental energy to do it.
Therein likes the problem….
HOWEVER, I also want some serious looking at the scenario. I want it “debugged” by others….not only the math, but the logic….
Troll, I can’t imagine there is enough polish left for this titanic turd. I wasn’t on the fence about Doeren; I fully expected that he would coach out his contract and then hit the road. You can’t lose a game like this one and keep your job. In the seven wins Doeren has earned in four years (excluding the 35-7 pummeling of the Asterisk in Kenan), he’s needed the other team to make significant mistakes in order for his teams to win. He needed a late turnover from WFU and a hurricane against ND to earn his only decent home wins in his four-year stint. A poster on TOS mentioned Tom Reed, whom I barely remember as Sheridan is the first coach who my memory can recall, and Doeren might be every bit as bad as Reed. His record is very damn close.
DD also shares Reeds unfortunate habit of blaming others for his teams poor performances, as Luke DeCock documented in his column yesterday…
I’ve thought about a potential option given the issues with Yow, her contract, her hiring track record, our budget, the fact that DD isn’t going to get it done and clearly has worn out his welcome with the fans. I think even if we fire DD, Yow will be very challenged to make a good hire given the circumstances.
What would be the thoughts of firing DD today and promoting Des Kitchings as interim head coach. Everyone says that Des has “it.” If you think about the only spot on the roster where we are loaded, it’s at RB. The strength of this team is the RBs and the run game and we’re simply not using them properly. I’m guessing he’d fix that. There’s a chance he’s our version of Dabo. Note, I wouldn’t expect Clemson results (input$ are clearly different), but the scenario is similar — younger coach on staff who is a great recruiter.
If he’s not, then what’s the worst that happens? He’ll coaches 1 1/4 or so years while Yow runs out her tenure. The next AD will get to make their own selection and not be straddled with financial issues or a poor hire. We’ve only bought out DD (and whatever staff Kitchings turns over), and have probably paid a good chunk of that off by then.
Thoughts from those more in the know? It seems to make a lot of sense to me.
^ The BOTB — Party in the Lot Plan does this…
Cuts all salaries in half…But if you just GOTT to get rid of DD…
then try this…Kitch ==> OC
Drink ==> Head CoachMoney in the Bank!
We could then have live bands — several different genres — in the Parking Lots…
and Concessions outside too…If there’s 20,000 vehicles going to game and each with $50 worth of food and beverages
that’s a cool $1,000,000 cash left on the table / spent elsewhere we could get a share of…#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Bill – I like the idea of the re-branding of our football operations. Heck, that is the de facto status of the program now. Perhaps the higher ups know that this is why people stroll into the game late, leave at halftime, join mid to late thru 3rd quarter only to leave again.
I have noticed more empty spots and less enthusiasm than we have seen in the past. 3-11 at home in conference for the las years has a way of making folks focus on the more important things in life. Friends, family and food.
People also don’t like being told their poop smells by someone whose own bathroom habits have caused you to go to Costco to buy the industrial size air-freshners. The guy probably has a point, but perhaps he needs to remove the stick in his eye before worrying about the eyes of others.
BOTB: It may be spoken in jest, but I actually think your plan makes more sense than what we are trying now. College sports are an entertainment business. All the administration really cares about is that money keeps rolling in. Might as well make it so it’s a great product for the paying customer, even if that product isn’t the result on the field.
I’ve argued for years that NC State just doesn’t get donor and student relations. They’ve been risk averse for so long they’ve not built the next pipeline of big money (or even steady) donors. It’s going to come home to roost in an ugly way. Your plan is the type of thing that might restore order.
– Kitchings for HC: He’s put in the time, recruits very well and know what needs to be fixed. He can obviously really recruit.
– Drink stays on as OC: We don’t know much about him, don’t know how well he recruits, develops players, etc.. If he’s a good OC, and he’s being micro-managed by DD (as some suggest), then let him loose (with the guidance that he’d sure as heck better use all his RBs).I really like the idea of Des being interim hc. We may get to see that next year of he doesn’t exit the sinking ship. I guarantee you – any of our desirable assistant coaches are gone if DD survives if a more stable situation presents itself.
The Kitch solution sounds feasible but I don’t give the NC State athletic dept any credit for creativity or proactive decision making. It would coincide with the devil toasting spiked cider wearing a parka under a blue moon. In other words…
I’ve argued for years that NC State just doesn’t get donor and student relations.
Ya’ll think about this…
1. The Classic “Build a Winning Program” model is definitely Old-School and targeted the Hard Core Alums who were 90% male.
I remember those first football games freshman year and seeing the old white headed guys in their gear… and thinking I want to be here doing what they’re doing when I get to be their age.. the Surviviors, the top of the pyramid guys…
2. Unfortunately… most all of the Alums under 35 simply don’t think like that… they just want a good clean Saturday afternoon party that’s kid friendly and if the team wins that’s better… Remember, FIFTY PERCENT of these Alums are women! Most with little kids…
3. Freshman year – there were 150,000 people living in Wake County… Nowadays, there’s over 1 Million… alot of them are looking for that good clean Saturday afternoon party that’s kid friendly too… and 97% are not Alums… that’s the market the classic model ignores…
4. There’s plenty of more land for parking around the Stadium… we could park 100,000 easy — we just can’t get all of ’em in the stadium at one time…
Why not think BIG??
Afterall, Dr. Woodson,, et al, go everywhere bragging about the “INNOVATION” that going on at NCState… let’s move some of that from the Centennial Campus to Blue Ridge Road…
If we’re talking Big Money… then … this is an Option…
If we’re want to stay a highly restricted frat house, then as B’rer ‘Roo states — Dues and Fees GOTTA GO UP in order to get what we want until the demographic tide or death washes us away.
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Admittedly I was one saying DD was making progress up until the EZU game, and then I thought we had regressed and time for change. I had hope with Clemson that EZU was an anomaly and their “bowl” game so they caught us off guard. Now, not so much.
Kitchings – I like Kitchings, but to go with an unproven assistant……..isnt that what everyone was complaining about with DD? No big time D-1 experience as a head coach and we need to find someone with a proven D-1 record, not a hope and a prayer that he will learn on the job.
Poor play calling (again) – is that DD controlling the reins? Or does Drink have no more creativity than last year. Looks a lot like the same play book to me.
“I have noticed more empty spots and less enthusiasm than we have seen in the past. 3-11 at home in conference for the last years has a way of making folks focus on the more important things in life. Friends, family and food”
This is spot on and while I have been seeing it for a while, it really struck me at the ND game this year. Even with limited number of people in the stands, the level of intensity was something I have RARELY seen in the past few years. In the parking lot, I am all about friends, family, and food, but once in the game I cheer and cheer hard. I remember when you had to stand the entire game in Section 2. Nowadays, it’s more common to be asked to sit down.
Have we beaten down the fans over time with the product on the field? Are our fans with younger kids just not as interested? I don’t know, but the culture that exists today seems to better support parking lot funfests than coming up for air with sufficient coin to support the cost of a buyout/new coach.
Mike: I hear you that Kitchings is unproven and that is a risk. It was a risk for Clemson when they hired Dabo, and Clemson had a lot more “at stake” than we do. If we feel like Kitchings has “it,” we’ll use 1-2 years to find out, which we do while we ride out Yow’s tenure here. It’s better than spending 1-2 more years with DD, when we know he’s not it.
It’s also better than Yow doing a hire now. I personally think she’ll really struggle to hire an experienced candidate. She’s going to either get a newcomer, for which the big money is worth the risk alone. Either that or she’s going to get a retread, looking for a path back in, who knows how the game works. We’re not getting a Les Miles, not with her being this close to retirement, our budget, etc..
The next AD is also going to want “their person.” This is the biggest revenue sport and therefore the hire that most impacts the bottom line and their success as an AD. It’s human nature for a new manager at any position to want their people if there’s accountability and that manager needs certain key positions to perform at certain levels.
Then there’s the cost. This is a move that can be made on the cheap. We seem to be cash strapped.
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