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Welcome back…. SQLWolf…
A “Nation” by definition is a group of diverse people who often disagree but have one big thing and several little things in common…
The one thing is what holds the “Nation” together….
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Last week the talking heads gave NCSTATE some love, looking forward… but after ND crushed USC, it’s a for gone done deal that the Irish are in the national playoffs. I have a calm and optimistic feeling about Saturday.
I don’t care how nice he is or how good the promotional videos are, I want to win a conference title. I want to win one this season, period. Been way too long. This Notre Dame game should be fun and all and I’d love to grab a W, but lets see how great they are against a fading Clemson. That’s the one we need to get.
Too bad you didn’t watch Episode 9 before you commented. As SqlWolf said in his post,
These episodes are like having an insider view of the life inside the program (player and coach). It’s given me more appreciation of what Doeren thinks and is doing with the program.
Nothing in there about how nice Doeren is. The comments about being good promotional videos are consistent with the title of this thread — “Going Forward”.
Too bad your post isn’t relative to this thread.
Just as the news cycle with politics for now State is old news. Beat the catholics and state jumps to the front of the cycle again. I’m the type who looks for progress. Sometimes that is W/L, sometimes it is more underlying. This year we surely have an improvement in W/L but that has come because of a lot of behind the scenes work by the staff and the players. Hopefully we will see success next year. I think we will with the basic work. With that comes turnover in assistants as they move up (maybe even with the head coach but right now that is pure speculation). Assuming coach D hangs around (expected by me) the next issue is replacing any assistants who either can’t cut it or more likely today move upward.
For this year I’m enjoying the run. I do hope the team wins out and gets the kudos for that. Winning solves a lot of issues.
Assuming coach D hangs around (expected by me) the next issue is replacing any assistants who either can’t cut it or more likely today move upward.
If I may offer an opinion about assistants at this point in time. The current staff has bought into Doeren’s vision and commitment. They are coaching in a culture that includes time for you family, personal growth and professional growth. It’s clear that Doeren cares about the players as people and he cares about the coaches as people. That caring isn’t pervasive in this profession.
Look no further than our neighbors in Orange County to see how much the coaches and administration cares about the players. College isn’t about learning, it’s about learning how to learn. Are the huge number of football players admitted with fake “learning disabilities” learning how to learn. Success in life is 10-20 percent inspiration and 80-90 percent perspiration. Fake learning disabilities with special treatment to remain eligible doesn’t help a young man in being successful in life.
Aside from their coaching abilities our coaches are here because they care about the young men they work with. Band of Brothers, Trench U, etc. Illustrations of the coaches caring are abundant.
If not this year, and it could be this year that we are competing for a national championship, then we are on the edge of competing. Not because we made incremental progress but because Doeren built the foundation the right way.
He put this staff together the right way as well. Dan Patrick, our DL coach has said publicly he loves it here — “they’ll have to fire me to get me out of Raleigh.” Des Kitchings turned down the HC job at Furman to stay with Doeren and the culture Doeren has established. And so it goes with the coaching staff, and the rest of the football staff. Doeren treats the staff right.
Not only is this team a tight with each other, but the coaches respect each other and work together. We’ve got it going here at NC State. With good karma we could be in the play-offs.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. I’ve been sticking to it despite, as Rick said, some serious grief by many posters.
I do think the assistant staff is solid but I also realize change will happen. Look back thorough the roster of former assistants (including Pete Carroll). At some point some will chose to advance. When that happens it is all on the head coach to find a suitable replacement. This is not unlike any business. Will that happen next year? I think unlikely but you can be sure high paying contracts will be offered to the flavor of the day. I don’t see that as bad – in fact I see is as more kudos for the program.
Two things that happen in an environment that fosters great performance and a great working environment. 1. High performers either get promoted within or move on to other opportunities. 2. When that promotion happens those who would like to fill the opening is larger and the probability of hiring a great replacement is higher. I’m pretty sure DD’s reputation is fostering that type of environment since we have landed some pretty good talent in the assistants. If you look back to CTC his environment was vastly different (opposite by most accounts). People were leaving just to get the heck away from him. I highly doubt he learned that from Bobby Bowden.
With DD I’m sure any potential hires are encouraged to speak with the other coaches and players about the working environment. Word on the street is Aaron Henry, the new safeties coach is a top notch guy and was a great addition this year when Clayton White left for a DC position at Western Carolina. Clayton White is from Dunn, where I live, and our circles have crossed from time to time. I saw him the first of the summer and asked him to tell me straight up why he left. He said it was a very hard decision, his heart has always been with State and working with the current staff was the best experience of his life. Knowing Clayton, if his experience had been not that good he would have only said he was looking for a promotion. He said DD was not only the best boss he’d ever had but also one of the best people he’s ever been associated with.
Smarter than the average bear
I do think the assistant staff is solid but I also realize change will happen. Look back thorough the roster of former assistants (including Pete Carroll). At some point some will chose to advance. When that happens it is all on the head coach to find a suitable replacement. This is not unlike any business. Will that happen next year? I think unlikely but you can be sure high paying contracts will be offered to the flavor of the day. I don’t see that as bad – in fact I see is as more kudos for the program.
We ought to be discussing this over a cool one. 😉
So far as I can tell there are only 2 types of exits from Doeren’s staff. 1. People he let go and replaced to improve his staff 2. People who got what I call upward movement for their career, i.e., took a job as a coordinator or when Ryan Nielsen went to the Saints as OL coach.
Oh, and Canada and I doubt we will ever know the truth about that one.
3 coaches have been here 5 seasons – Kitchings, Huxtable, Faulkner
1 coach 4 seasons – Barlow
1 coach 3 seasons – McDonald
2 coaches 2 seasons – Drinkwitz, Ledford
2 coaches 1st season – Patrick, HenryThe newer guys seem to be equal to or an improvement except for Patrick and Henry and it’s too early to tell.
As far as advancement is concerned we will surely lose some but I don’t think waving a little more money in anyone’s face will entice anyone to leave. My son was promoted to head of production in the Atlanta Region for his company but his wife wouldn’t move to Atlanta. He was flying all the time so he was able to make it work. Lived in Burlington, worked out of Atlanta region. Instead of flying home to Atlanta at the end of the week, he flew home to Burlington. Flew out of GBO or RDU to start the week. I have no idea what he would have done if he couldn’t have made it work out. A 1/4 M raise is a lot to turn down.
I just had a senior moment. Apologize for the story about my son. The point was wives have as much to say about assistants leaving as they do unless they are terminated.
Not enough disagreement here to worry about.
I think we are saying much the same thing. Minor differences but I see a program on the rise. Coach D has been through fire in his time with the Pack but I never thought he was overmatched unlike some. We had tried the quick fix (Amato) and the old tree (TOB) with limited success. Now we might be heading down the same road but at the very minimum the program is on a better footing that of late. Maybe even equal to the Rein era. With hard work and some luck the program can surpass that. The question (as always) is will that happen. I think the odds are in favor of that but time will tell.
I turn down 1/4 M raises all the time just so I can hangout on this board.
Good ones come, good ones go and good leaders know how to find ‘em.
McCallum
Good ones come, good ones go and good leaders know how to find ‘em.
Everybody knows where to find them — the AFCA national convention. The good leaders have a list of coaches who want to coach with them for various reasons.
I know you don’t want to hear this but the culture we have in our program now attracts good coaches. I know you think it’s winning but it’s not. AT’s opinion of them not withstanding, we have been accumulating good coaches for the 5 years Doeren has been here.
We have a good mix of veteran coaches and younger coaches — on both sides of the ball.
By the way the AFCA national convention is going to be Sunday thru Wednesday in Charlotte starting January 9th, 2018. The AFCA national convention is in its 95th year. I wondered how Chuck could know all those great coaches he hired and then ran off. 🙁
Good ones come, good ones go and good leaders know how to find ‘em.
Good leaders attract good people. The opposite is true as well.
“Great” organizations don’t have people jumping out the window to go elsewhere (Amato’s staff?), nor do they keep their staff very stagnant either (O’Brien’s staff?). Just my sense, but Doeren’s track record seems to be in between Amato and O’Brien with regard to staff changes.
I don’t know the exact reasons why our on field results have improved so significantly and I’m not sure if anyone truly does. However, having a staff that works very well together combined with strong teaching and management skills leads to a team that will be more successful than not.
If someone turns down that money, it is usually because “If Momma ain’t happy. Nobody is happy”. Saw it recently all because “Momma” got in a fight with her parents about Trump and decided against moving back “home”, even after her husband had accepted the job and resigned. Before you feel too sorry for him, he punched out with a 3/4 M + bonus.
AT’s opinion of them not withstanding
What’s my opinion of “them”? And who is “them”? Please don’t go dragging my name into a discussion I’m not a a part of.
That said let’s wait a couple of weeks here to get the results of playing against the “big boys” before everyone starts slurping each other off about the playoffs and worrying that Dave heads off to the NFL to replace Belichik.
And news flash: If we make the playoffs, or even come close to sniffing the playoffs, history would have us believe Dave is “peacing out”. Your own eccentric personal loyalty, dorton arena, statues coming down, marital troubles, etc, ain’t gonna be changing that.
I’m impressed so far with this year. I also recognize there can be issues remaining. Even if the program continues the upward trajectory (and maybe because of that) there will be some turnover in the staff. Thus my interest in how those losses are replaced. This year might well be over the top for the Pack historically or it might end with a thud. I’m think more positive than negative but I’m not ready to declare Coach D the second coming (even though I do really like him).
I will continue to say the program is better now than when Coach D took the HC position. Will that continue? I think so but my crystal broke a few years ago.
Tractor, I don’t think the biggest worry going forward is coaches. The biggest worry is how we replace all the experienced players that will leave after this year. We talk about the program moving in the right direction, but next year is the key to whether it is or not. We have to consistently be good. We are having a very solid season so far, but I would hate to go from good season to the next sucking like our neighbors. I am enjoying their suffering though.
In the near term I agree but longer term what is done to replace assistants that leave is crucial. Sort the two sides of the coin. Obviously we need to continue to recruit and develop players. That ultimately become the assistants duty and with that I think long term how the assistant turn (or not) is a very important issue.
Agreed in enjoying the suckitude over at the dump on the hump.
Have any of you noticed the stars for our incoming class? I remember all too well 2s & 3s and some NRs thrown in there. The 2018 class is all 3s and above. As long as I’ve been reading those tea leaves I’ve never seen us do that. Granted it’s a ways to the Bams and the tiggers BUT it shows drastic improvement for us. Just sayin’
Smarter than the average bear
Agreed Tractor, Assistants are longer down the rd than I am looking though. With that being said I recognize the fact that most programs stay consistent when their coordinators stick around. It is one of the reasons FSU was so dominate for so long. I am all for bringing in better talent, I just want to see it develop quickly. It really comes down to are we mediocre 3 out of 4 years or are we consistently competing at the top of the division every year. Only time will tell that. Just as I still don’t know how good this team currently is. Sure we beat FSU and UL but they are down considerably. I have watched ND and they are a good strong team with few holes (Passing). The game on Saturday will tell me a lot, even if we lose but it’s really close.
We should worry about the next 3 weeks before we make any proclamations about the future. We could go 3-0, or we could go 0-3. There’s probably a better chance at 1-2 than either. There’s a big difference between what 3-0 would tell us than what 0-3 or even 1-2 does.
One of NC State’s problems is that we’ve been far too quick to commit to Fool’s Gold. Many on these boards think that we turn over coaches too much, but the bigger issue is that we’re so starved for anything that resembles success that we lock coaches in prematurely that aren’t going anywhere. The last coaches we had in the two major revenue sports that were ACTUAL, LEGITIMATE flight risks were V and Sheridan.
Next years record will not tell us one thing about our football program but next year’s record will tell us everything about next year’s team. Failure over time however is a clear indicator that something is amiss in the football program. Astute observers of football know the difference between the team and the program.
Coordinators can make a huge difference in the team. ND changed both coordinators since 2016 and you can see the results on the field and in their W/L record but ND has made few if any changes in their football program. In addition to Staff that coaches the team, football programs consists of a wide range of support programs such as Strength staff, Recruiting staff, Operations, Sports medicine/Nutrition and Academics. ND made no changes in their football program — at least none that they publicized that I’m aware of.
There’s a business adage that goes something like this: If you are doing things the same way you were 5 years ago, you are doing it wrong. Maybe not wrong but in an inefficient and dated way. This could easily apply football teams. Sure, some HS are still successful running the Single Wing or Split-T or whatever. New offences are successful and everybody wants their team to the latest flavor. Or bring in that coach to guarantee success.
Meanwhile defenses are catching up to those hot offenses.
If you are operating your football program the same way you were 5 years ago, you ac]re doing it wrong. Technology changes rapidly. By the time you get the technology bought and installed, it is out of date. Aspects of a football program are the same way. The HC operating as the CEO of your football program must stay on top of all aspects of the program.
State fairly recently fired someone on their recruiting staff. He wasn’t getting the material sent out recruits were requesting. Our recruiting took a hit during that period. Meanwhile our video technology has been installed and is state of the art. It will probably be good for about 5 years.
We are being contacted by recruits who wouldn’t consider visiting earlier asking about visits. Do you think those ONE with Wolfpack Football Episodes are making a difference?
AT’s opinion of them not withstanding
What’s my opinion of “them”? And who is “them”? Please don’t go dragging my name into a discussion I’m not a a part of.
That said let’s wait a couple of weeks here to get the results of playing against the “big boys” before everyone starts slurping each other off about the playoffs and worrying that Dave heads off to the NFL to replace Belichik.
And news flash: If we make the playoffs, or even come close to sniffing the playoffs, history would have us believe Dave is “peacing out”. Your own eccentric personal loyalty, dorton arena, statues coming down, marital troubles, etc, ain’t gonna be changing that.
Whatever…
Happy to have the “talking heads” at ESPN, Mike n Mike, talking about the quality of our defensive line. They believe ND will have to step up their passing to get win. Just excited about opportunity, national TV, national football conversation. Did not think we would get back to this point, but will give players and coaches credit for growth.
FSU getting rolled by BC…. looks like 3 ranked teams ahead in State’s schedule. Can’t wait for KO!
If we hadn’t been so busy whining about how we “crapped the bed” vs BC last year, we could have seen this coming.
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