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Now I like the hire of Eli but the fact that he hasnt even hinted as to why he kept our DC is a head scratcher. Our defense last year in critical situations screwed the pooch in each and every time.
Let’s ignore the “each and every time.” Sounds too much like my wife and her “never and always” rant. š
First things first. I don’t particularly think Huxtable is a great or nearly great DC. What he does do is fit into the culture that Doeren is creating here. Hux is a good man and is loved by the players. Second thing is not spoken about. Doeren is the de facto DC. Hux is administering Doeren’s defense.
Year one for whatever reason we went with the now basic college defense: 4 down linemen, 3 backers. Likely that decision was made because Doeren’s DC at NIU stayed there.
Year two we converted to 4-2-5 I suppose because of the spread and 3 receivers sets we encounter in the ACC. A lot of those ābig gainsā we gave up were a result of mistakes made in a defense most HS donāt play. (EweNC tried the 4-2-5 and abandoned it when they couldn’t make it work. Short term gain. Whether it is a long term gain or loss is to be seen.)
Year 3 some parts of our defense was very good and some not so good. Our LBs didn’t get it done. That problem will be less severe due to an added year experience but won’t be fully cleaned up until 2017 when Brock Miller and Germaine Pratt will have completed a red shirt year.
Hux is not without fault as the Nichol back is his responsibility and many of the failures IMO were failures of the Nichol, in his LB role, not getting it done on the LOS. A lot of us complain about big gains against our defense. BTW Clemson gave up more big gains than we did although they played 2 more games.
So stop scratching your heads. Doroen ain’t gonna fire himself and has too much integrity to use Hux as a skape goat. We don’t need a new DC, we need somebody who can coach LBs and NIKs. Unfortunately that is usually the DC.
Good analysis.
This is the season we’ve been waiting for in some ways. We have some talent, we have some questions. The schedule is huge. Put on your Red and let’s tee it up!Hell no.
Iām telling you now.
Like I said, “If either turns out, we wonāt hear from him.”
I’ll be here Dorthy.
You just drop to thy knees and perform the proskynesis when what you fear is reality.
McCallum
Grey: I agree with you regarding the fact that DD is the DC and have said it many times. If DD has to fire Hux, then he’s effectively admitting to firing himself. Having said that, if we’re 5-7 (or worse) this year, then Hux is the sacrificial lamb and DD comes back for year 5 on a red hot seat. Hopefully it is a non-issue.
I’d agree with McCallum about the LB and WR play. The LB play has been pretty awful ever since Nate Irving graduated. That was our last real game changer at LB. We also either don’t have good speed, good route design or good route running at the WR spot. It’s hard to tell from the TV coverage which it really is. Hopefully these areas have improved.
I agree with what someone posted about Ledford. I think that will prove to be our best offseason move. I feel the best about our OL coaching that I have since year one of TOB (where I had hopes of those BC lines that were sure to come). Unlike TOB’s (and Amato’s) tenure we actually seem to be recruiting, retaining and developing enough talent to have a real OL. I’m convinced that the OL and the QB are the two most important position units in college football.
Hux is not without fault as the Nichol back is his responsibility and many of the failures IMO were failures of the Nichol, in his LB role, not getting it done on the LOS.
Huh? Exactly which nickle this side of Dravious Wright were you watching?
NC State’s new motto: we ain’t got none.
I like it not because of the legions of suffering fans because it would drive the lazy asses at the top insane.
McCallum
*wouldnt it be better if he changed his name to Wrong?
It amazes me how people with college degrees cannot grasp the real problem at hand. You have to have recruits, and to get the really good…best recruits one of two things have to happen. The kid just loves State and wants to go there (Williams) or a recruiter gets lucky (Rivers, Wilson). Past that you have to have success. One one my favorite songs is “Nothing Succeeds Like Success – Bill Deal and the Rhondels”. WE DON’T HAVE SUCCESS! And whether you want to admit it or not it’s not all DD’s fault. He had NOTHING when he came here. Quite honestly we were probably lucky to get him. If I was a coach of any stature and looked at the roster I’d have said “Ain’t NO WAY”. And yet you naysayers have expected miracles. Wine out of water so to speak. Gradually his recruiting is getting better. Look what CTC had to do to get good players here. Look how long it took Cut to get semi decent ones at Duke. And say what you want but UNX has an upper hand there. They tend to get better classes for a multitude of reasons, some of which is THEY CHEAT! I’m tired of everyone laying EVERYTHING that is wrong with State football (and other sports) at the feet of the coaches. SOMETIMES there are factors that make it almost impossible for them to succeed. DD’s first team is a prime example. I deal with people blaming everything that goes wrong on everyone else or a scapegoat. Sorry, but our woes ARE NOT DD’s or Yow’s fault. And IF, IF we could have hired a top shelf coach I sincerely doubt he would have come or even entertained taking the job. Sorry to burst your bubble but THAT is the honest part of where we are, whether you want to admit it or not.
Smarter than the average bear
Yogi: I completely agreed with that last post right up until the defense of the year one record. TOB had seemingly stopped recruiting, had no real answers at QB, and was paper thin on the OL. The situation wasn’t great talent wise and it was poorest at the most impotant positions.
The decision to be “pro-active” with TOB was a good one to hide how bad we really were and to get a “better” coach hired. In reality, maybe it was a red flag that the coach didn’t quite look at things closely enough. It also placed more scrutiny on the rebuild because it wasn’t as obvious to the rank and file fan how bad we were about to be. It cut both ways.
Having said that, it is very tough to defend that year one performance. It takes a special kind of awful to go 0-8 in league play. To my untrained eye, year one was filled with coaching gaffes. The staff was dealt a bad hand, but they collectively misplayed it.
Unfortunately for the staff, that year one egg can’t be ignored or washed from memory. When one sees similar coaching mistakes in year two and three, then it erodes confidence. The mulligan and any real rope with the fan base is used up. Recruiting had to have been tough. It’s a tough uphill battle from that point out.
Had the staff just managed 3-5 in year one, the view of the situation would be drastically different. Fair or unfair, there’d be some grumbling about “no better than TOB” but last year would have been viewed through a different lense, as would expectations for this season and a belief about the general trendline.
Admittedly it is a razor thin margin for error. It’s not fair. It’s reality though.
I personally think DD is here as long as Yow is, barring that perfect storm I described earlier in the post. If that happens, I think a change gets made. I don’t think it happens though and clearly hope it doesn’t. I want DD to succeed and NC State to do well.
If they turnout Iāll gladly and without regret admit that I was wrong.
I’ve been looking and I don’t see anywhere you’ve admitted you were wrong. Dang. You must be right all the time.
I’ll freely admit I was wrong once… and that was when I thought I was wrong and wasn’t. š
rye, I would completely agree with except for one glaring problem in year one. We had NO QB, ZILCH. With no QB no score, no score no win no matter how good (or bad) the rest of the team was. And the QB play was dreadful. Look at the vast turn around in year two. If TOB had recruited someone, anyone with a stitch of talent we may have gone that 3 – 5. MAYBE. We could have been even worse. And since Bible had cancer he didn’t do any recruiting either. I have all ideas that when DD lined up for spring practice his first thought was WTF have I gotten myself into. As I think back to some of his decisions knowing what I know about having people who are in over their head from my days in the military, some of the decisions he made could be attributed to a few different things:
1. The lack of talent may have him taking chances sometimes just to get an edge. Some of it worked, some didn’t. When it didn’t he got blasted.
2. He did have somewhat of a lack of experience. Again, not something he could do anything about, he came to us with only two years wearing the big boys pants, and in coaching that ain’t a lot of experience. He was learning on the job. I’m sure none of us have ever been in that situation and with every promotion we have been ready from the get go and had nothing to learn about that new position.
3. With every loss came a touch of despair, for him, his staff and the team. I don’t care who you are, losing is TOUGH, especially when you’ve always been associated with winners like he had.
4. It had to be tough facing kids you know would be great for the program knowing they are just giving you lip service as you pitch the future to them. In today’s society with today’s recruits tomorrow is tomorrow, not 2 years from now. The winners want to play on a winning team even if they ride the pine waiting their turn due to a host of talent in front of them.
I could list at least 10 challenges to DD being successful in that first year, much less subsequent years. From where I sit he was dealt a hand much worse than any other coaching hire since 1992. Only Sheridan took over a team that was as bad, and back then high profile college football is NOTHING like it is today. Even with that Sheridan was 52-29-3, and I’m sure most would say he was one of our most successful coaches. This medium makes the desire for instant gratification way to easy for both fans and recruits. Building a winner is REALLY hard work, REALLY hard. Harder than anything 99.9% of us do on a daily basis. The hours are atrocious, the stress immense, the putting up with wildly unrealistic expectations insane, and the lack of long term stability nil. The only job that even comes close to the lack of job satisfaction is being in the military or first responders and getting shot at. In 1990 I figured out my hours pay and it was 2.35 an hour (far below minimum wage). This was after being at sea for 73 days straight. I may be wrong but I’m pretty sure there ain’t anyone on this board who could come close to doing DD’s job except maybe cowdog or tfouse. Those two guys I’m sure could share how difficult Dave’s job is. Now some smart butt is going to say he gets paid well to do it. NOPE, not in my estimation, not even close. He doesn’t even get paid enough to put up with the crap that board monkeys say about him. But then that’s just my point of view.
Smarter than the average bear
ryebread, Yogi,
I have 2 thoughts about the first year – one very general and the second more specific. DD is if nothing else an honest man who doesn’t go into a presser with a prepared, sugar-coated statement. He says he likes North Carolina (and lists the reasons.) He says he and his staff will not be out worked and I believe that. (He apparently is attracting recruits who are the same way.) So he accepted the NCSU job on very short notice. TOB’s firing came as a surprise to many if not most of us. DD took the job without a “career path” analysis. He trusted what Debbie Yow told him about how long he had, etc. If she told him he had 5 years, he’s got 5 years. If it was more or less, he’s got more or less… and how antsy we board monkeys are makes zero difference.
DD is if nothing else a smart man — intending to be a doctor before changing courses. He also has coached under some pretty successful coaches. I’m certain he saw what he was getting into or what he had to work with that first year. We all are pretty much in agreement you must have an outstanding QB to win in college. Pete and Brandon were not outstanding. I don’t think for a minute that DD didn’t try to win every game. I do think he used some situations as teaching moments that had us experts totally convinced that he was clueless as a coach. And there were times where his inexperience cost us a few yards or a time-out or whatever.
What DD could have done that might have won a game or 2 more was to use an offense that fit Pete Thomas’s skill set. Fortunately he didn’t come here to have a more impressive losing record or be able to say he won a conference game or 2 his first year. We started right in on installing the offense he and we all thought was “the one” — Canada’s offense. Unfortunately for us and Canada, while he was a brilliant offensive mind, he couldn’t call a game worth a crap IMO DD saw this and made the change. Bottom line without knowing what DD was doing we could not possibly judge accurately what he was doing or thinking when he made what looked to be bonehead decisions. Reading these message boards tells me most of us are upset DD isn’t doing what WE think should be done instead of trying to figure out what DD is thinking or trying to do. I guess it makes us feel good to think we are more knowledgeable than the HC.
When you are looking for what is wrong, usually you can find it. I know I can. I got an ex-wife who is proof of that. The gloom and doom folks like to criticize those of us who are looking for what’s right — we are referred to as ‘fantasizers.’ We are the fantasizers. They are the realists. Or so they think.
So I look for what’s working and what’s possible. Doeren has altered the culture in the football program at NCSU. Check. He has coaches who care about the players as players and people. He is building character and creating an environment where young men can grow to be all they can be. We are gradually attracting both good athletes and good people. We aren’t winking at hazing and beating up walk-ons, etc.
Instead of bringing up o-8 20 0r 30 times a year, maybe we ought to let that be in the past where it belongs. Way too many of us are steering this vehicle by the rear-view mirror.
This post turned into a rant… sorry about that.
If they turnout Iāll gladly and without regret admit that I was wrong.
Iāve been looking and I donāt see anywhere youāve admitted you were wrong. Dang. You must be right all the time.
Iāll freely admit I was wrong onceā¦ and that was when I thought I was wrong and wasnāt.
How were you on your prediction last season? š
This has been a very interesting discussion since from page three on. Thanks for the insights from both “sides”.
How were you on your prediction last season?
This has been a very interesting discussion since from page three on. Thanks for the insights from both āsidesā.
d
I can’t remember what I had for lunch, never mind remembering something from last year. šI agree Rick. Thanks for saying it. This is the SFN I miss.
How were you on your prediction last season?
Actuallt Rick asked the question.
All predictions last year were made before Shad took the infamous Mo-ped ride and Dayes went out for the season. A lot of people forget about that and don’t like the question, “How would EweNC have done if Hood was lost for the season and Logan went down with a season ending injury?”
Injuries are a part of football, true, but Mo-peds shouldn’t be. š
How were you on your prediction last season?
Actuallt Rick asked the question.
All predictions last year were made before Shad took the infamous Mo-ped ride and Dayes went out for the season. A lot of people forget about that and donāt like the question, āHow would EweNC have done if Hood was lost for the season and Logan went down with a season ending injury?ā
Injuries are a part of football, true, but Mo-peds shouldnāt be.
What games do you think we would have won with both of them in our lineup?
So I look for whatās working and whatās possible. Doeren has altered the culture in the football program at NCSU. Check. He has coaches who care about the players as players and people. He is building character and creating an environment where young men can grow to be all they can be. We are gradually attracting both good athletes and good people. We arenāt winking at hazing and beating up walk-ons, etc.
Do you think people give two rat behinds about the “culture” (whatever the hell you mean by that) or character building etc. Thats just a flimsy excuse for having a crap program. You may think that is all good but at some point he has to win. Its that simple. He has to win some games. I dont care what division we are in but he is getting paid to win. Figure it out, the last 2 coaches managed to beat both FSU and Clemson. These excuses are just tired and played out. This is the year, he has to win a game or 2 of significance or he is a dead man walking for the next AD and whatever excitement that is around the program goes down like the Hindenburg. He and Yow created this paper tiger of 8 wins and record breaking offensive stats while not even mentioning who it was against. Its obvious now what her motive was moving forward. At some point you have to quit blaming TOB (who beat #3FSU and won 7 games the fired year) and stand on the team you have built.
Grey: Some valid points there. There’s room for some “other side” views as well:
– Walking into a worse situation: Amato walked into a much tougher situation than DD — much tougher. MOC had tanked. We had awful facilities. FSU was at the tail end of a juggernaut. VT just up the road had come off a title game appearance. Phil Fulmer had Tennessee rolling to our west. VT and UT were pulling kids heavily out of NC. Amato lucked out with Rivers, but that kid was recruited by big schools to play safety. He feasibly had nothing when he walked in the door other than a love for NC State and a belief he could get it done.
– QB: We had Sherrifs in year one. He may not have been all world, but he’s done okay at UConn. The staff wouldn’t even let him throw the ball. There was more QB talent there than we showed, and that’s back to how we played the cards we were dealt.
– Installing a scheme to fit Pete Thomas: I’ve never bought the “Pete was brought in to sit in the shotgun” argument. Pete wasn’t that good of a player and nothing about his time at Colorado State suggested he was ready for major minutes at the P5 level. That was on TOB. Pete did seemingly have good leadership abilities, put the team first and tried his hardest (exactly what you want out of back up). People seem to forget that this staff brought in Mitchell who was the starter game 1 despite really having played QB for several years. Yes, they installed what they wanted to install despite personnel issues and took some lumps for it. There’s nothing that I’ve seen that suggested that a tailor made offense for Pete Thomas wins significantly more games. Maybe the argument is that if Mitchell hadn’t have gotten hurt, we’d have won more. The offense definitely derailed quickly in game one after he got hurt.
– Pressure of losing: Yep it sucks. It’s this business though, and it is at every level. D3 coaches right now are getting fired for not winning enough games, which is just ridiculous. I’m sure it did snowball though and it probably caused the staff to take some risks that they otherwise wouldn’t have.
– Bad game management though hasn’t just been in year one. It’s been there all three years. It’s the use of time outs, situations, down and distance, sense of urgency in the play calling (both offensively and defensively), the absolutely lost look that happens when we build any kind of lead, the lack of being up to play in big games and the maddening predictability on down/distance/motion/formation in the offensive play calling. I’m fine with putting the past in the past, but when you see the same things year in and year out, then it’s foolish to ignore them.
– Like you, I’m a focus on the positive guy in life, and really feel that way with NC State football. I personally don’t understand why people have the expectations they do when looking at the inputs. What I see with the inputs and this year’s schedule is 6-6. If we go 7-5, he’s over achieved. If we go 8-4, he legitimately needs some coach of the year talk.
– If we have a losing record, lose to UNC and lose to ECU, I personally think he is gone. I don’t think it matters what Yow told him before year one. Fair or unfair, I just think that’s what is going to happen. I think (and hope) we beat ECU so it’s taken off the table early.
– If we go 5-7, but beat either ECU or UNC, then DD is back for year 5. There will be some grumbling though and I suspect that recruiting will be fairly weak.
Well one thingās for sure.. itās year 4 and thereās no excitement around the program. One would think this needs to be some kind of break out season for DD & co. or else whatās the point?
I’m more excited than last year simply because ND and ECU > Troy and East KFC. Plus we get a handle on the QB situation and where the program is really headed.
Amato and TOB had 3 NFL caliber QBs. That alone makes for more wins than loses. If PR wasn’t here Amato tanks immediately. He knew it and that’s why he begged PR to come. TOB luckily recognized Wilson was a keeper and started him in year two. If he didn’t have Glennon in the wings he would have been toast because he hadn’t recruited anyone else. Say what you want but no QB = not many wins. Even with Super Mario Amato was toast without PR. The 3-9 record from 2006 as evidence without Williams. Amato at least had PR even if he was a freshman and he did pretty well. Having Chow as OC didn’t hurt either. CTC had much more to work with than DD did. TOB didn’t though. Still the worst was Sheridan. He took over an atrocious team.
Smarter than the average bear
Now some smart butt is going to say he gets paid well to do it. NOPE, not in my estimation, not even close. He doesnāt even get paid enough to put up with the crap that board monkeys say about him. But then thatās just my point of view.
[/quote]
This is not an entry into the anti/pro-coach argument/discussion on the board. I generally don’t get involved with such and wish to keep it that way. But I’m sorry, Yogi, if I could get DD’s salary for one year I’d work insane hours and put up with any crap anybody on any board ever wanted to say about me and smile. That’d set me up for life.
Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy. Mao Zedong
Most will agree that Cutcliffe is a better coach than Doeren, but this doesn’t mean that Doeren needs to be strung up. Someone at State does, but it ain’t the head football coach.
Cutcliffe is fortunate that Duke is in the Coastal Division. If Duke and State were switched, I doubt Cut would have had nearly the degree of success he’s had so far. The ACC Atlantic Division is a death sentence for every team who’s not FSU, Clemson or Louisville. Every team in the Coastal Division has a reasonable chance of winning that division, but even the good SEC teams would struggle to consistently win the ACC Atlantic.
I don’t think State will ever compete for a Division football title until three things happen: 1) they get a competent AD; 2) they get a big-name coach who can recruit the level of talent needed to compete against FSU and Clemson; and 3) ACC football realignment puts FSU and Clemson in separate divisions.
Until this happens, or unless we land another Philip Rivers-level QB who flew under everybody else’s radar, we’re probably going to be playing at best for a .500 ACC finish and a mid-tier bowl. Apparently enough Wolfpack fans are satisfied, happy or not, with this, and it’ll likely be more of the same next season.
Given this season’s schedule and the talent level of this team and coaching staff, an overall .500 record is about what I expect. Even beating Notre Dame on October 8 won’t guarantee a successful season.
The more things change, the more they remain the same.
It’s nice to be optimistic, and I’ll be wearing my red and hoping for miracles, but chill out bashing folks who want to discuss the reality of the situation. At the end of the day DD is not getting it done on the recruiting trail, he’s got no gimmicky system making us tough to prepare for, nor any signs or history of being a brilliant coach with an ability to polish turds into diamonds (or however the saying goes). DD is essentially the D-coordinator, you say, and that’s why he can’t fire Hux over the crappy defense? Now stop, take a moment, and think about that long and hard.
The stretch goal for year #4 is to get to .500 and go to the tire bowl. As far as I’m concerned the writing is on the wall. Does anyone truly think at this point DD will at any point here have us in any championships games, much less winning one?
NCSU recruiting rankings (according to 247sports.com).. trending downward no less
2016: #50
2015: #31
2014: #34
2013: #59LOL 44, after the years I put in with the Navy, the hours, lack of sleep, crappy meals, and insane stress there is no way I’d do it. But to each his own. Then again you said “for one year”, and that’s not the supposition, he does it year in and year out. I’ve done my time on a treadmill like that and the pay just wouldn’t be worth it.
Smarter than the average bear
… and another thing: why are we patting ourselves on the back for this coach supposedly changing the culture? Just what in the hell was wrong with the culture from the previous regime? I mean it seems to me that the previous regime’s had an integrity filled and WINNING culture.
Umm.. yay for changing that?? Really?
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