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One of the great mysteries of being a Wolfpacker is wrestling with the struggles that NC State’s football program has had with Wake Forest and Boston
[See the full post at: Doeren Doing Things]Dammit…you ruined my slow burn. Was waiting for folks to call me an idiot.
Still, I do think we got a shot.
Besides, I’ll be loading up with the 1.75L anywhoo.
I said before the season that we could be a lot better than we were last year and have the same record. Let’s hope that they win at least 2 of the last 3 to prove me wrong.
Doeren has knocked down some depressing stats well.
Win at Wake – check
Win at BC – checkNow, there are a few other items he needs to work on, which is happening.
What did Bobby Bowden always say?
First, you lose big.
Then, you lose small.
Next, you win small.
Finally, you win big.Doeren is starting to move down the list there. I like the progress. Rome wasn’t built in a day. It may take a few more years, but I see the improvement happening.
Captain Obvious, winning the next 3 or 2/3 with a win over a quality bowl opponent will keep the majority of the fringe at bay but not everyone. Right here, right now, expect this “progress” topic to be ripped based on the list of the 6 teams conquered. Bowl eligible title needs a few more victory prongs.
What did Bobby Bowden always say?
First, you lose big.
Then, you lose small.
Next, you win small.
Finally, you win big.Kind of how I see it as well. Amato was great at skipping the lose big phase, starting with the lose small and then going with the win small. He could never take it to the “win big” phase.
TOB got blown out a lot. That was the thing that most bothered me about him. We lost more games in about a year by double digits than Amato lost his entire tenure. It wasn’t just that we lost, it was often how we lost.
I have always thought really good teams took care of business on the road. They came into your house and take it from you. It’s easier at home because of the home fans.
It’s part of why we were never going to break through with HWSNBN at basketball. Even when we had a good record, we were kind of a paper tiger. We were good at home, but we never won on the road, and more often than not would lose to any semi-good team on a neutral floor.
I like that we’re winning on the road. WF and BC were huge steps. If we could win at FSU, it would be huge.
I’m sorry, but wins over BC (3-7), WF (3-6), Troy, S. Alabama, ODU, and E. Kentucky don’t show me anything. I’m not screaming for anyone’s head, but you have to beat someone before I start pointing at “progress”.
A comparison to Herb’s teams/records is right on point. He could wipe up the bottom of the conference, hold his own against the rest of the muddled middle, but had damned few wins against the top of the conference.
In the end, good teams prove that they are good by beating other good teams. State hasn’t accomplished that yet.
Only one of the teams we have beat has a win over a Power 5 school (Wake over BC, 3-0).
It is still too early for me to judge this team. The Va Tech and Lville losses, though expected, were a bit disappointing. 4 easy wins over cupcakes, ok. Clemson did what they did. We fought hard but that should be a given. We’re kind of holding serve IMHO.
Agreed wufpack – we what the bed vs. The ‘ville and Vatech… We take 1 of 2 and we’ve got a different perspective. However, I think we can get at least 1 back we can be making solid, undeniable progress.
I’m sorry, but wins over BC (3-7), WF (3-6), Troy, S. Alabama, ODU, and E. Kentucky don’t show me anything. I’m not screaming for anyone’s head, but you have to beat someone before I start pointing at “progress”.
A comparison to Herb’s teams/records is right on point. He could wipe up the bottom of the conference, hold his own against the rest of the muddled middle, but had damned few wins against the top of the conference.
In the end, good teams prove that they are good by beating other good teams. State hasn’t accomplished that yet.
^This 1000x.
HWSNBN’s similarity to our current football program is that yes, he could wipe up the bottom of the conference, but only if the Pack was playing at home. I honestly don’t remember HWSNBN’s teams ever winning a significant road game, at least not in the ACC, except when they won at Chapel Hill when Matt Doherty was coach. EVERYBODY, except Clemson, was beating the 8-20 Heels in Chapel Hill and just about everywhere else that season, though.
At least football has now won two road games this season. Granted, the Wake and BC teams this season are among the worst ACC teams in memory, but Doeren got 2 Ws ON THE ROAD. Give him that.
But with this team, one that I doubt would have had much if any more success with Holtz or Sheridan, the timing isn’t good. Doak Campbell on Homecoming against an angry FSU team, followed by a classic trap game vs an underrated Syracuse team, and a home finale vs UNC with the students home on Thanksgiving break may not set this team up to finish well.
Whoever’s responsible for State-UNC on Thanksgiving weekend should have their asses kicked until their noses bleed.
So ya piss and moan about Winston-Salem. Ya piss and moan about Chestnut Hill.
Ya piss and moan, piss and moan. Piss and moan.
35-7
..and then they’d complain it took too long and wasn’t loud enough.
Reminds me of the Geico commercials. That’s what they do, CD.
They would’ve fired Dabo years ago.
Here is the difference to me – in the past we would play WF or BC and I wasn’t sure if we would win or lose, even in Raleigh. This year there was no doubt in my mind we would win those games. We competed and could have won any of the three games we lost. I see a lot more talent on the field on both sides of the ball. I’m seeing real progress in the caliber of play. Still lots of holes to be sure, but DD’s recruiting is gradually filling them in. Yes, I think we will get our butts kicked on Saturday, but that won’t diminish the confidence I have in the head coach going forward. I’m truly excited about where this program is headed.
BullPack, COWDOG, and tjfoose said it perfectly. I don’t understand the complaining about winning on the road against teams we have been losing to in recent history. It reminds me of The Rock (movie) when Nick Cage asks Sean Connery to do something about the dead guy’s leg twitching. Connery comes back, “what do you want me to do, kill him again?” Jeezus, people Wake and BC is that dead body, what more do you want from this team?
Remember, this is YEAR THREE of an absolute gut job of a rebuild. You have absolutely no standing to bitch about the quality of conference road wins. A lesser coach wouldn’t be getting them.
Football doesn’t get turned around on a dime, not unless one is left a heap of unmotivated talent. That was most assuredly NOT the case in West Raleigh.
Anyone who cannot see progress is either blind or willfully ignoring. I get that for some the progress is not quick enough but even so there has been progress.
Progress is being made I agree.
However, context is very important and a couple of things need to be considered. While it is great to beat BC and Wake at their place – these 2 teams are a combined 1-12 this year.From a historical perspective – this is the worst BOTH of these teams have been since BC came in the conference – and it’s not even close. The previous years we played at Wake and BC (from 03 with wake and from 05 with BC to 2011) – their combined record during those years was 42-38 – which is very respectable. Now, in 2013 (dd’s 1st year) they were a combined 6-10 in conference play. This was the worst record of these 2 teams before this year. Basically, it’s the equivalent of sendek sweeping the tar heel teams that missed the tournament.
Regarding Dabo – he went 6-2 (which tied Tommy Bowden’s best) his first full year and won the Atlantic division (Tommy never did that) He slipped his second full year, but went 6-2 again and won the division again the next year…so it’s not really fair to compare him with DD…two totally different situations and go figure, totally different results.
Moving forward, 3 big tests remain. This Saturday will not be easy. Hopefully FSU will be hung over after the Clemson game.
I’m convinced that it’s a personality type that fails to see progress. Just like it’s a personality type that believes in conspiracies (it’s proven – Google it) – I know this because my brother is this type.
I just want to see progress year by year, and we are seeing that in abundance. Given that the team is so young, it’s progress just beating those whom we should beat – as this hasn’t been the case since Sheridan was coach. Don’t forget… we’ve also lost 2 all-conference running backs.
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