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“I haven’t gone back and looked but I remember a lot of ‘experts’ predicting much better.”
Somebody appears to place “value” in preseason predictions.
Grey,
That cuts both ways though. Not really much of an accomplishment if it’s easier to get the women’s and Olympic type sports good. The real meat and potatoes would be to get our revenue sports in the top 25. It takes timing, lots of luck, some mastery of the AD craft, and probably lots of hard work.
Overall, I’d give her an incomplete I guess. If I was forced to give her a letter grade, right now C+ sounds about right.
Of course it is an accomplishment. We’ve moved from 84th to 12th. I don’t care what league you are playing in, that’s an accomplishment.
Incomplete is fair especially in football. Grading them separately I’d say she failed in MBB. Time to sit down with her boss and plan a strategy to replace MG.
Hang tight with football. There is way more than meets the eye there. The W/L record for 2016 is an anomaly. Our football program in every way, except the one most of us can see (W/L), is ahead of the curve. We are building a foundation for the near and distant future. DD is responsible for the IPF, locker room upgrade, additions to support staff (that we can’t see), our coaching staff is a fine combination of people and coaches, and our athletes are high character young men with great work ethics.
Dave is accused of bonehead decisions by people who are clueless about what they are talking about. All the modern day HC does on his own is cheerlead and pass out ‘attaboys.’ All the rest are decisions made with various degrees of input from assistants in the booth. The bottom line is on the HC but he doesn’t watch live action and film for tells that indicate whether or not a punt/kick or fake is going to work. Most decisions are pianolas based on time and distance.
I don’t know how to say this accurately but Dave Doeren has enrolled administration, Coaches, Support Staff, players, etc., in his vision and his stand for NC State football. State football is in much better shape today than its ever been. No, the W/L doesn’t reflect that yet. It will.
Soon we will have video support for recruiting that will expertly show case and create enthusiasm for our program. The head of that department will be on the recruiting staff. Even without this we are attracting attention and interest from a better talent level recruit. It is only going to get better.
Now step back and watch the loyal State Fans attack in a feeding frenzy this positive post. It’s like Bob Dylan wrote in one of his earlier songs, “Some people ain’t got much food on the table but they got a lot of forks and knives and they gotta cut something.”
Grey,
I hope you are right about DD. So far his record has been less than stellar but I hope you are right about the record following the other good things.
I obviously agree basketball has been fait ac·com·pli for a while.Grey,
That cuts both ways though. Not really much of an accomplishment if it’s easier to get the women’s and Olympic type sports good. The real meat and potatoes would be to get our revenue sports in the top 25. It takes timing, lots of luck, some mastery of the AD craft, and probably lots of hard work.
Overall, I’d give her an incomplete I guess. If I was forced to give her a letter grade, right now C+ sounds about right.
Of course it is an accomplishment. We’ve moved from 84th to 12th. I don’t care what league you are playing in, that’s an accomplishment.
Incomplete is fair especially in football. Grading them separately I’d say she failed in MBB. Time to sit down with her boss and plan a strategy to replace MG.
Hang tight with football. There is way more than meets the eye there. The W/L record for 2016 is an anomaly. Our football program in every way, except the one most of us can see (W/L), is ahead of the curve. We are building a foundation for the near and distant future. DD is responsible for the IPF, locker room upgrade, additions to support staff (that we can’t see), our coaching staff is a fine combination of people and coaches, and our athletes are high character young men with great work ethics.
Dave is accused of bonehead decisions by people who are clueless about what they are talking about. All the modern day HC does on his own is cheerlead and pass out ‘attaboys.’ All the rest are decisions made with various degrees of input from assistants in the booth. The bottom line is on the HC but he doesn’t watch live action and film for tells that indicate whether or not a punt/kick or fake is going to work. Most decisions are pianolas based on time and distance.
I don’t know how to say this accurately but Dave Doeren has enrolled administration, Coaches, Support Staff, players, etc., in his vision and his stand for NC State football. State football is in much better shape today than its ever been. No, the W/L doesn’t reflect that yet. It will.
Soon we will have video support for recruiting that will expertly show case and create enthusiasm for our program. The head of that department will be on the recruiting staff. Even without this we are attracting attention and interest from a better talent level recruit. It is only going to get better.
Now step back and watch the loyal State Fans attack in a feeding frenzy this positive post. It’s like Bob Dylan wrote in one of his earlier songs, “Some people ain’t got much food on the table but they got a lot of forks and knives and they gotta cut something.”
I can agree with you. I do think it is an accomplishment and I’m proud as punch to have our non-revenue sports successful. I hate to oscillate with the wind on Doren but I am a fan and have almost no knowledge of football. I was ready to have him gone after EZU and BC. He has won me back with the late season surge. Hopefully we can get a double digit in wins or at least 9 wins next year.
Everyone is dismayed by not only our record in basketball but how we have looked. Historic beat downs can only be weathered in good or fair seasons. What we have here is really close to a nuclear meltdown. I don’t envy his spot right now and I don’t believe he can pull it out. But he does have a chance and he needs to get this team to the tournament. If he doesn’t he probably needs to go, and DY needs to do it. This is pretty much what most State fans thinks right about now.
I think DY is catching heck because of the perception she won’t get rid of Gott if the need arises. If she gets rid of Gott and we get who we want as a coach, I’d move her up to a B+ almost instantly. IF we have a dumpster fire and Gott stays steering us into the cellar for the foreseeable future in basketball, she would get a wholehearted F—.
I watched out bowl game so I tripled my NCSU football seeing.
Good one, Rick. With the way basketball is going, any sense of humor deserves recognition.
I stand by my statement, revenue sports are not in a good place and apparently the only refutation you have of that statement is a preseason prediction.
When you watched the bowl game, did you see anything you liked? Did you notice on 3rd downs our SEC opponent was 2 out of 11? Did you notice our TE have a performance that along with his other accomplishments, earned him an All America nomination? How about a KO return of 100 yards for a TD? How about a pick 6? Do these accomplishments indicate a slide into oblivion to you?
I gather you didn’t watch but did you hear about a big win to reach bowl status vs our biggest rival — who just happens to be nationally ranked — in their house? Indicative of a slide into oblivion? Hardly.
One of our coaches turned down HC of his alma mater to stay with the Pack. There’s more but this should be enough. The “more” is behind the scenes stuff that I grant if you weren’t looking for it would not be easy to see as program progression.
All these things are why IMO we were preseason ranked in the top 25. You won’t see these things looking in your rear view mirror. I can also see how a basketball fan would not be impressed by preseason ranking. I wouldn’t either. I will give you this much, basketball is discouraging. I’m following your football viewing practice and I’ve used up half of my 30 minutes when we stunk it up 2 weeks ago.
I’ve got to do something about this sudden urge to write about Wolfpack football so I called the Incontinence Hot line. They asked me if I could hold.
I’ve got to do something about this sudden urge to write about Wolfpack football so I called the Incontinence Hot line. They asked me if I could hold.
That’s funny.
I have mentioned I am a football fan not an expert so I don’t see these football subtleties. Like I said, I hope you are right. He needs to take that “next step” soon or its safe to assume he isn’t going to do it.I grade athletic directors based on the hiring process (did they pick a candidate with reasons to expect success) and how they handle situations where the coaches are not performing.
By my measure, the last two football hires were acceptable candidates. Obviously TOB retired before moving out of Raleigh…hence his removal. DD may or may not work out, but hiring a successful head coach at a lower level is a perfectly acceptable pedigree for a coach.
In stark contrast, the last two BB searches have been unmitigated disasters…both in implementation and the chance of future success. In fact, Gott has had more success in his first few years than I expected, but the level of that success ( ie S-16) is about what I expected his ceiling to be.
So if the dumpster fire continues through the BB season, we’ll see how DY handles abysmal failure.
When you watched the bowl game, did you see anything you liked?
I think that the UNC game is a better example of what I would like to see; probably because I knew more about UNC than Vanderbilt…plus the emotional investment in a rivalry game. Unfortunately, the BC game also says a lot and none of it good.
I don’t think that State has ever fired a FB coach in the same year that they beat UNC. So I didn’t expect it this year either. I hope you’re right about DD, but I remain undecided. Unscientifically, two beat downs of UNC in the last three years flavors my opinion of DD more than it probably should.
She gets an A or maybe even A+ for the non-revenue stuff, without question.
Jury is still out on football, though I feel better after the bowl than I did going in. And football is a tough row to hoe, I get that.
But you can’t get our crown jewel, men’s hoops, as disastrously wrong as this, and be as unflinchingly tied to YOUR BUDDY HIRE as she has been, tying us to a crippling contract extension for no logical reason, without consequences.
It’s an overriding criterion that reverse-mitigates everything else. A fatal flaw.
And it’s not like we are/would be “losing out” on some massive upside – SHE IS RETIRING ANYWAY. The point is, that retirement needs to be effective NOW. So we can have an athletic director in place to hire a STRONG head coach in March/April, so we don’t lose ALL our talent and/or just promote an assistant.
The dumpster fire is clear and TOXIC. Everybody can see it from miles away. The question is – what, IF ANYTHING, is NC State gonna do about it??
I don’t care how good looking woman is, there’s a man somewhere whose tired of her sh!t. That is how it is for me with MG. He looked real good when we hired him but now… I would bet too that you guys are wrong about the BUDDY thing. I imagine Debbie Yow has heard about all she can stand from the big donors about Mark.
She probably sold the biggies on Dave fairly easily. If I were a betting man, I’d put my money on DD, not against him. Why? He’s a committed man and a darn hard worker. That’s a hard combination to beat. And we saw in Chapel Hill he ain’t gonna give up on you.
Mark? What have you got to sell? Recruits good but screws the pooch when the game is on the line. How much time does it take to turn a basketball team around? What’s it been now? 6 years?
I think I’ve said it before, IMO she should go and meet with her boss and lay it on the line. Doeren appears to have his ducks lined up but I have screwed up with Gottfried and I don’t know what to do. Can we talk?
Is sniffing glue against the law?
McCallum
Neither is sniffing bicycle seats, McCallum, but I don’t advise you doing it publicly. 😉
… a part of the difference was bringing on the former Miami coach …
Did she provide the bump in recruiting? There are a lot of underclassmen (underclasswomen?) get a lot of minutes.
Actually, it was a he. 🙂 Since he came on board late last March and left for a head coaching position at Miss St. in early December, I would say his impact on recruiting would only this coming year. The word on the street had it that his scouting and pre-game planning was highly beneficial this year. Let’s hope it continues.
All that aside, this is just like all of the top schools scooping up these discarded head coaches in football, regardless of what they’ve been accused of. Apparently, one-and-done can be for Assistant coaches too as programs are looking for any competitive edge.
I would bet too that you guys are wrong about the BUDDY thing.
He’s [ Coach DD ] a committed man and a darn hard worker. That’s a hard combination to beat. And we saw in Chapel Hill he ain’t gonna give up on you.
Right X 2…
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Is sniffing glue against the law?
McCallum
Neither is sniffing bicycle seats, McCallum, but I don’t advise you doing it publicly. ?
Depends who was sitting on the seat.
Dave Doeren is to coaching what Summer Erb is to grace and beauty so I doubt you’d snif a seat where she sat(and crushed).
McCallum
Looks like the final results are in. While we didn’t hold that #12 slot, we did finish 29th (6th in the ACC). Ahead of Clempsun and damn respectable in my book.
Sure, we want more success in the major revenue sports, but at least we’re making progress in the other areas. Let’s see if it is contagious to football and MBB.
Looks like the final results are in. While we didn’t hold that #12 slot, we did finish 29th (6th in the ACC). Ahead of Clempsun and damn respectable in my book.
Sure, we want more success in the major revenue sports, but at least we’re making progress in the other areas. Let’s see if it is contagious to football and MBB.
above clemson you say, I wonder how they will ever live down the agony of that defeat. Oh wait…………
The final results are in for 2018 and once again we faded in the spring. However, we finished 15th this year compared to 29th last year. Also, 3rd in the ACC (behind FSU and Duke) and one slot AHEAD of UNC.
Again, that’s progress.
Duke’s Men’s LAX team get them +90 on us. FSU’s softball won the NCAA tournament for +100. FSU also has very good M&W track programs. Those were the difference makers in the spring sports. I doubt we’ll see LAX make a comeback any time soon but we can improve in softball and track.
If ADs were measured on Director Cup performance (the most holistic and objective measurement) relative to expenditures, Debbie may rank #1. We may literally have the best AD in the country.
Don’t get used to it. Key Woman Risk: our program likely sinks back to irrelevancy once she departs. What are the chances we find a top 10 replacement?
Great ADs have no emotional ties like you and I, rather they want large budgets and a high salary. NC State offers neither. Debbie had personal ties and was undervalued (inexpensive) b/c the industry is sexist; if Debbie were a man, she could have named her school. Serendipity rarely repeats.
My take: Yow has done remarkably well with non-revenues. The current FB and Men’s BB coaches appear to be in good position to take that next step, but that progress has been slow. I look forward to having another strong leader in the AD position. My fear is that LF 2.0 will somehow finagle his way into the chair, and all the great successes we’ve had (albeit in the non-revs) will be lost. I’ve been supportive of Yow given that she’s at least competent enough to fire bad coaches and hire better ones, but I’m pessimistic that the next hire will have her same focus. If we lose our swim coach or our wrestling coach, for example, because of hiring Cougar Judge Lee Fowler or someone comparable, then both small and large-level successes will be gone.
SaccoV I agree with many of your points. The difference is the boss in the Chancellor’s office. We have to remember that Yow was not even on the list provided to him from the search committee. If the University keeps Woodson I am comfortable we do not end up with Fowler 2.0.
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