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McCallum,
Do you recall or remember at all…..the 2002 ACC Tourney that was in Charlotte? I wuz there for the whole stinking thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_ACC_Men’s_Basketball_Tournament
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=142978
I was wrong about Reddick….I guess he did kill us later on. BUT, we had defeated Maryland that year. Maryland, if you recall, went on to WIN the 2002 NCAA Championship. I have a very good recollection of this as there was a MD fan in front of us who jumped up on every MD basket and then jumped up and booed every NCSU basket or foul. I calmly, but forcefully, put my hands on his shoulders about mid first half and said in a very Macho voice….I am as big a State fan as you are, but you need to quit jumping up like a jack in the box on every play. We cannot see through you. I did that when he was “jumping” and sort of “gingerly” brought *not a slam, but a gentle takedown, him back down in his seat and surprised the feces out of him. He calmed down. My wife and her SIL and my Nephew STILL talk about my “taking control” of the situation and getting things calmed down.
We got the feces beat out of us. Herbie was asked in the post game presser about using some “Junk” defenses against Mike’s non conventional offense. His response….We did NOT practice them, so we were not going to improvise in a game. THAT was the opposite of Jimmy V.
Archie has taken a Dayton team that had been mediocre-to-bad under Brian Gregory and has seen them gradually improve every year he’s been there. Ken Pomeroy’s rankings currently have them ranked #32 this year (ESPN’s BPI has them at #42). Even better, here are where his teams have ranked defensively (nationally) since he took over at Dayton:
2012: 158
2013: 145
2014: 72
2015: 31
2016: 15
2017 (to date): 11That’s awesome. Even before looking at any numbers or records, I was impressed watching his teams play. I haven’t watched many of their games, but every time I see them they play disciplined, well-coached basketball. Even if he didn’t have State connections, he’d probably be the up-and-comer that I’d want. Some school is going to back the dumptruck of money up to him in the next couple years, and it’ll be real tragic if it isn’t us.
Adventuroo,
Reddick killed State in Greensboro.
I was there for that tournament and I was there for the one in Charlotte. The Maryland game I listened to in the parking lot because a gang of black ticket scalpers bought up all the tickets at the door off every departing-defeated team. They charged double and triple asking price and I refused to pay.
The cops arrested the bastard.s right after the Maryland game so tickets were easy to get for Duke.
And you are right on the part about Duke crushing State but no junk defense was stopping that team. Hodge was a senior.
McCallum
OK – let’s get out timelines straight when it comes to Sendek.
Year 1 miraculous turnaround after 0-8 start to conference that culminates in run to the championship game vs the dreaded Heels where we don’t have the legs to finish the job. Good feelings abound in wolfpack nation.
Years 2-3 – fail to capitalize on this. Year 4 – the year of the great collapse where we start 5-3 in conference only to lose our next 7 games before winning 2 in a row before another blown lead in the acc semis. We make a final 4 run to the nit where we collapse in both games to finish 4th.
Year 5 was awful but Herb signs a program changing class with key members have conditional Lois (not sure if urban myth, if they actually exist or is something that Sendek himself created in a moment of genius.)
Anyhoo – this class does change the program leading to our first bid (of 5 consecutive) in the big dance since 1991 (btw, it’s 2002 now.)
This team advanced to the acc championship game where it was blown out by Duke. In 2003, we advanced to the championship game again against Duke again. This time is different however, when Josh Powell – who has morphed into beast mode – converts on a 3 point play (he may have missed foul shot – State is up double digits with under 12 minutes to play….Coach K, Reddick, ACC refs go off. We lose in a much more painful loss than a year ago.
The next year, Sendek’s regular season apex. Hodge is ACC poty. We go 11-5. We beat a nationally ranked wake team in Winston. Scooter badly sprains an ankle before the tourney. We go to ACC semis, play an incredible first half…Up by 25 or 24 with a minute or so to play, Sendek puts in little used reserve…UMd hits a 3 at buzzer.
Next half witnesses the first of 2 epic collapses which will poison what should have been the most satisfying overall season since 1989. Led by the ACC officials (Larry Rose teeing up our bench for cleaning up sweat) and spurned recruit John Gilchrist, Umd stages miraculous comeback.
The pain of this loss is only trumped by what is to come…A collapse in the round of 32 vs Vanderbilt where we see a double digit lead evaporate (once again with a huge assist by officials) in last 3 minutes of the game.
The next year we go 7-9 and get a bid as a 10 or 11 bid in tourney and advance to the sweet 16 where we blow an 8 point second half lead vs Wisconsin
Next year we start out strong and at one point are either 10-3 or 9-3 but collapse down the stretch…We lose in round of 32. Herb flees to the desert.
Be aware that the “FAN DESERTION” that ended Lowe’s career was, average, less than 5%. Gottfried has made that up plus about 0.5 %. Not exactly a triumph.
The PNC real attendance looks about the same as final Lowe’s years.
I would have expected a 10% increase over Herbie. I guess that if we were a top 25 program, it would be. Businesses can’t even give away coveted bowl seatsxphoenix87: Those are exactly my thoughts, and I’ve looked at those same numbers and trends. Arch has done more than enough to prove himself. It’s time to make it happen.
Note, there’s no guarantee that Arch will succeed here because there are simply no guarantees in life outside of death, taxes and change. It’s just tha the gives us about the best chance of anyone we can realistically hire, and we *might* have a leg up on him over other teams because he is an alum.
Unrelated, but that is a painful walk down memory lane with HWSNBN. My biggest memory of him was thinking so many times that we might finally break through, only to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It was a valuable lesson in killer instinct / performing in the clutch and understanding that some people have it and others don’t. If one doesn’t have “it” then they will never acquire it. HWSNBN never had it, never acquired it at State or ASU and never will.
1,000 tickets per game x 15 games x $20 equals $300K (without incidentals). Which already covers most of the “per annum” saved portion of the buyout.
That doesn’t even factor in any of the indirect stuff like engaged alumni giving more than the bare minimum, etc.
if DY really does get a 1 year extension (which makes no F*ing sense at all but is so totally NC State), what does that mean for our coaching search that should already be well underway?
While watching the game Saturday a few friends and I got into a discussion about State. The non State fans all still think Gott is a decent coach. That is until I asked them 2 questions. First give me a player under GOTT that got significantly better year over year. They couldn’t. Secondly, name one coach in the ACC you would take Gott over. They couldn’t. Then they all agreed it was time for him to go. Regardless of what happens from a firing standpoint, I feel like if we dump Gott the media will treat us the same way. Much like they did with Sendek (even though we didnt fire him). I don’t want that to hinder the search. If we are going to fire him there needs to be a quiet push to the media that he isnt cutting it immediately. Focus on the results etc.
While watching the game Saturday a few friends and I got into a discussion about State. The non State fans all still think Gott is a decent coach. That is until I asked them 2 questions. First give me a player under GOTT that got significantly better year over year. They couldn’t. Secondly, name one coach in the ACC you would take Gott over. They couldn’t. Then they all agreed it was time for him to go. Regardless of what happens from a firing standpoint, I feel like if we dump Gott the media will treat us the same way. Much like they did with Sendek (even though we didnt fire him). I don’t want that to hinder the search. If we are going to fire him there needs to be a quiet push to the media that he isnt cutting it immediately. Focus on the results etc.
I personally think Gott is going to “resign” and use the health/life style/less stress excuse. He and Yow will work out compensation so everyones happy.
I think however if Yow has to straight fire him he could pose a problem if he started running his mouth about us and the program about expectations and what he has achieved.
There would be NO reason to extend DY’s contract. She has openly said mid 2019. Doeren’s contract runs out 12/31/2019. Gottfried’s contract runs out “End of 2019/20” season.
The Miami thread has an interesting comment from an email that the poster received. DY told him that she would take whatever steps necessary to improve the BB program (not a direct quote). I have been a bit reluctant to write her, but she will pop back, at all hours of the night, with a response.
If we have a 4 & 12 or a 5 & 11, given the talent that we have, then that email made me a little bit more optimistic. I do NOT think that she will shirk her responsibilities….
BUT, I do plan on writing Dr. Woodson later on as the carnage increases….
While watching the game Saturday a few friends and I got into a discussion about State. The non State fans all still think Gott is a decent coach. That is until I asked them 2 questions. First give me a player under GOTT that got significantly better year over year. They couldn’t. Secondly, name one coach in the ACC you would take Gott over. They couldn’t. Then they all agreed it was time for him to go. Regardless of what happens from a firing standpoint, I feel like if we dump Gott the media will treat us the same way. Much like they did with Sendek (even though we didnt fire him). I don’t want that to hinder the search. If we are going to fire him there needs to be a quiet push to the media that he isnt cutting it immediately. Focus on the results etc.
Some players have gotten significantly better. Cat, TJ, Howell, CJ Williams. No one on the current team though, which is part of the problem.
I would take Gott over Stallings, Brownell, and the BC guy. Stallings is pretty comparable. Until this year I would have added Manning, Pastner, and Hamilton to that list, but can’t any more.
I don’t think the media will kill us. The belief is widespread that Gott is a poor coach – if anything, the work Gott did in years 1-4 was underappreciated in the media. Jeff Goodman in particular seems to have a personal vendetta against Gott for some reason (did Gott bang his wife?).
The rumored Yow extension feels like a precursor to a coaching change. The new coach would know there would be 3 years of stability at the AD spot. Not ideal, but better than 2 years. The alternative – a change at AD – obviously is infeasible now.
If this season continues to spiral into a 5-13 (or worse) type of disaster, I can’t see how Gott survives. There would be no logical justification.
If Gott does leave I doubt we will see many players leaving, except those that try to go to the NBA. That’s provided we get a decent coach.
Mav is better this year than last. Abu has also improved. He is enough better that he could be drafted if he plays another year in college under a coach that can teach him some things about helping on defense. Anya has certainly grown as a player. All of those improvements are on offense. Nobody guards better than they did last year.
Just curious, where is the contract extension for AD Yow chatter coming from?
She has been pretty straight forward in her career Comments.
If Gott leaves or is fired I think getting Archie is wishful thinking. We will end up with an “up and comer” like a Matt McCall or a Dana Ford or a retread. I have no confidence in our ability to attract a proven commodity. That’s okay, V was an up and comer from Iona. But it is hit or miss…and we have wiffed a lot.
I think Gott made us a much more desirable job. He’s shown recruiting, reaching the tourney, and winning is very do-able here. If he goes he’ll have had 5 years so an incoming coach would know they have job security as well. And the fact that we play in the best conference in the nation doesn’t hurt. And how could I leave out “fuhcilites”????
The *ONLY* problem at this point I see is if there would be any residual Gary Williams effect this time around re: Yow as your boss. I would hope that after 5 years that issue would have faded a bit.
I’m optimistic our next hire can be a home run (on paper).
I agree.
Obviously we don’t have the right guy…UVA has the right guy, Louisville has the right guy, Duke has the right guy, UNC has the right guy, Syracuse has the right guy, Larranaga and Hamilton are guys who put together solid seasons from time to time. Jury is out on Manning, and Pastner. Stallings is a more consistent version of Gott.
Originally pulled together the attendance data (from the NCAA reports). Did it late one might. Couple of errors. Here is the bottom line.
Herb Sendek (at the PNC) averaged 14,450 per game (have the total for each season, but since the games vary, used the AVERAGE for his 7 seasons at the PNC)
Sidney Lowe averaged 13.887 or a DROP of 4.1% for his 5 seasons.
Using Mark Gottrfied’s 5 season (2015-16 as last), he averaged 14, 939 or a 7.6% INCREASE over LOWE or a 3.4% INCREASE over Sendek.
If you do the math, using $400 per Season Ticket sale (based on this season upper center deck), Lowe’s years resulted in a $1,126,400 DECREASE in Ticket Revenue (total for all 5 years).
Likewise Gottfried INCREASED Ticket Revenue by $2,104,000 over Lowe (another 5 year period)
NOW….FOLLOW THIS….I may be WRONG….but I have checked my LOGIC….
Lowe was paid $750K or “Guaranteed” that. That did NOT include any incentives.
Gottfried has “AVERAGED” $1,907 or Guaranteed that during his first 5 years. This is based on his original contract, the 2012 raise and the 2015 raise and extension.
SO, we have paid Coach Gottfried $5,785,000 MORE in the past 5 years than we were paying LOWE.
He has “generated INCOME” of only $2,104,000. I guess we can keep selling DIMES for a NICKEL and make it on the volume….
That is a NET LOSS (if this were a business or stock investment) of $3,681,000…..
Roo: Don’t show those #s to anyone in the athletic department! (I’m sure they already have them).
That to me looks like incentive to go out and try and find a cheap up and comer, from a strictly business standpoint.
Money talks so those figures aren’t exactly promising, looking forward. Assuming your calculations are correct, the need for a highly paid home run hire just isn’t there financially speaking.
^Roo, that is odd. But what I would say is that you can argue there’s also a multiplier effect in other giving areas, whether it’s WPC, or to other funds and endowments. I have a friend who’s a retired economics prof from Clemson, and they’ve attempted to monetize the effect of football success on other programs and endowments and enrollment. Winning is a plus in many areas, at least in Clemson. Conversely, losing hurts you in more areas than one.
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