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Wow a lot of dramatic declarations going around. We went 0-2 against teams with terrific coaches that have been recruiting better than us for 2-3 years (our past two classes are on par with them).
Those games were 50/50 its not unheard of to lose a couple of those games you can’t flip a coin and get heads and tails every other time…over time these games will balance out. Chill. DD and staff are legit.
Agree with LRM that the VPI response bothered me way more than the Ville game (which I should have seen coming more than I did). I knew to fear the Petrino matchup (with so long to prepare) coming into the season. Whereas Beamer is clearly far on the downslope. And their personnel is every bit as subpar (if not more so) than what we got.
As to the Gott question, I absolutely would rather have him than Shaka or the Koch Bros’ egomaniac. When the time comes to pay him $3M+, we will. Right now, he’s asked the money people for the dorm thing, and he’s getting it. Kudos to him for asking for infrastructure to aid his already excellent sales pitch. Perhaps we will build something gold that will f-cking stay for a change?
We have to be a little outside the box to scale the mountaintop in hoops, but it’s totes doable, and we have the resources to play and make it stick when we find the right combination. We just can’t throw money blindly until we magically win it all, ala Texas, Florida, Kentucky, UCLA, etc.
That’s a much better launch platform than we, or any ACC school not named “Florida State” has in el futbol norteamericano. And that ain’t likely to change in any of our lifetimes. If you didn’t like that, then you should have fought like mad to encourage the administration to find a new conference home a few years back. Shit, we are just lucky the ACC is still surviving, so the money doesn’t dry up so badly as to impact hoops.
Am I missing something? I just can’t seem to put together how anyone at this point in DD’s career can come out and factually state he’s legit. I don’t think one can point to his Northern Illinois record given what he inherited there.
What I am missing is why anyone is surprised at the outcomes of the games.
1. We still are a very young team
2. DD’s teams play better at the end of the season (at least when he has a young team)
3. the first 4 games were against competition which was a clear step down from the last 2 games.From the last 2 games, it’s clear that we are losing the war in the trenches. It’s hard to win when that happens.
I’m waiting until the end of the season before making a judgement – especially since we have a young team. Blowing out the weak opponents is a clear step forward from last year. Not getting blown out by decent teams is also a step forward from last year. So I’d be surprised if this team didn’t do better than last year’s team – but we have to wait until then end of the season to tell.
I’m pretty sure we will win against Wake – with a week off and an off game last week, I’d put my money on State next game.
DD’s teams play better at the end of the season (at least when he has a young team)
We only have last season to go on where that’s true so not sure we can conclusively make this statement. If it is true the problem this year is that the schedule only gets harder from here on out.
Perhaps if we had lost by 7 or 3 to VT, DD would not get such harsh criticism, but we have plenty of time to turn it around, and have great season. I am certainly not happy with our losses, but they are over and behind us, and time to move forward, starting with a win at Wake. Strong possibility, then a return home to knock off top 10 team, Clempson. And that is also a strong possibility. I am still being optimistic, until I am given the reason not to be.
I just can’t seem to put together how anyone at this point in DD’s career can come out and factually state he’s legit.
Some use a little more insight that what a 5 year old could provide and can look beyond the simple metric of a win/loss record 6 games into a 3rd season. Same sight that saw concern for the long term when Amato won 11 games sees a bright future with DD.
I just can’t seem to put together how anyone at this point in DD’s career can come out and factually state he’s
legitin over his head.Those games were 50/50 its not unheard of to lose a couple of those games you can’t flip a coin and get heads and tails every other time…over time these games will balance out. Chill. DD and staff are legit.
I get your point, but it’s kinda funny because we’ve won every coin toss this year.
hahaha, foose, you mad? This will go right over your angry little head, but I’ll state it for ya anyway because it’s enjoyable to get you riled up: Just because you refuse to take off the rose colored glasses doesn’t make DD not be a 3-15 coach against the terrible Atlantic Coast Conference.
Take an anger management course sometime. Your life can improve.
hahaha, foose, you mad?
No bro, I’m not mad at all. But loud and boastful ignorance can be an irritant at times, even with the forewarning of coming from a self professed troll.
And no rose colored glasses either, just an objective analysis of the progression arc of the roster, staff, and program from the end of 2012 to today. If you expect a smooth curve, you’re even dumber than some of your posts. Neither Michigan, ND, Ohio St, nor Alabama reside in Raleigh. There are no quick fixes for NC State. The likes of Baylor, TCU, and Oregon are the models to which to strive. They took years, decades even, and they took ‘shortcuts’ to get there. Even the rebuild of FSU took years.
No, no rose colored glasses. Just an understanding of reality, the ability to see, and the absence of a gag reflex to rip and ridicule when I don’t get my way.
Either way, actionable judgment is 2 and half seasons away.
BOTB,
Incoming Pontification….
My point was….even PR got beat by someone having a “Career High” day. Vick certainly did with that scramble. LeVon stepped up….
And PR and the Chargers paid the price.
I can just see a locker room pep talk where the coach (opposition playing NCSU) tells him team. This can be a real opportunity for those who WANT a Career High day to Excel. We KNOW that it will happen…..history is with us.
The question is…..who will it BE? Or will it be MORE THAN ONE?. The choice, gentlemen, is YOURS. One or perhaps a few of you will have a story to tell your Grandkids that will live in Infamy…. Then he runs THROUGH the Locker Room door (which had previously been rigged for a stunt) and the team follows him.
I can ALSO see Jimmy V making that speech…..if he were coaching a winnable game where NCSU was the opponent (whom he was coaching) and the odds were slightly in State’s favor….
AND, I can also see him using it to Motivate the NCSU guys to PREVENT their opponent from HAVING a Career High Day….
I think any talk right now of firing Doeren is ridiculous.
I’m all for holding coaches responsible — but within reason.
We have to be careful to operate within the constraints of our reality: We’re a lot closer to becoming Kansas or Maryland than Clemson or Ole Miss.
So firing a good coach — one of the hot names when he was hired in 2012 and who inherited (unfortunately) a lower-tier Power 5 program — because he hadn’t turned it around completely after three years could be disastrous.
We’re just not in any position now to do that and expect to upgrade. What’s the expectation — The next guy would have to win immediately? At some point we have to admit Doeren needs the chance to develop some stability
That said, if we’re 0-8 again, I’ll admit it’s a tough defense.
Brer ‘Roo…
just GOTT to love single malt pontification….
but great speeches don’t necessary win games…
you remember the old Lombardi story… where he didn’t go in the locker room at halftime…
and there’s a similar Valvano story — something a missing a pre game speech or similar… idk…#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!LRM….
Well said and thank you and Amen to your comments. If someone finds a site that asks the idiotic question…..How many times can you vote NO…..and who knows a good hacker, that I will gladly pay, to take it down.
I tried to add a little levity, but I would hope that no one is really serious about even hinting at Coach D’s termination…It was an interesting observation that we do seem to suffer from “career high days” from our opponents in supposedly very winnable games. I ALSO remember FSU and others getting embarrassed in CF (or the PNC) on occasion…..
All the 3 & 15 rallying cry folks need to provide some honest data and appraisal of the condition of the program that the new coach inherited….
Lane Kiffin would probably take the job….and we know how well he has worked out and the integrity and records that he displayed while at UT and SC.
That is about what we would expect if we did something idiotic, which I totally trust AD Yow NOT to do. We do not need a Professor Harold Hill coach….even though Prof hill did FINALLY field a band….but it was LOUSY….
BOTB,
I’m assuming you mean the folks that are pontificating about DD’s departure and such were influenced by adult beverages or other substances.
My frail attempts at humor were strictly Stone Cold Sober….
Jimmy V told two stories about locker room speeches….one where he almost broke his arm or shoulder….by crashing the doors to the Locker Room while the team waited and waited…..They were LOCKED….
The other was when he used the Lombardi quote….and muffed it….
Think of only three things: your God, your family and the Green Bay Packers-in that order.”
He actually SAID Green Bay Packers rather than RUTGER’s Basketball. He was the Freshman Coach there and also a Varsity assistant….First game and first locker room speech. Supposedly the team said….”Wow, have we got a football fan…for a coach?”
Agree with LRM. I’d still be surprised if we didn’t end up at least 7-5 and it retrospect that shouldn’t feel as hollow as it will.
Point taken about KS and MD. The basketball/footy chasms are present there, too.
I am all for Coach Doeren and I am not giving up on the season. I am hoping we can finish like we did last year. But I am having a hard time understanding what in the world happened. I did not think anyone would be able to stop us on offense. We had multiple top running backs with a combination of speed and power. We had a speedy freshman receiver play maker. We had Jaylan who could line up in multiple positions and a threat to run or catch on every play. We had NFL caliber tight ends. We had a senior quarterback who seemed ready for greatness. And I believed our offensive line, while not deep, was the best we have ever had.
It doesn’t seem like we have been able to use any of it to our advantage. Maybe we fell in love with being able to run the ball so effectively against the powder puffs. But those same plays are not working against teams that are overpowering our big men. All of those weapons have virtually disappeared. It doesn’t make sense to me.
Heelh8r: I think you answered your own question if that was your assessment of the talent. It was kind of set up for disappointment.
I was an 8-4 (4-4) type of person. I figured we’d take a small step forward. I based this on having some good backs and TEs, depth at DL, getting some LBs healthy and another year in the system. I wasn’t buying what the press was selling on JB and I had no clue what we had on the OL and with the kickers. We’re trending about where I thought we’d be — maybe a game behind. I think a lot are disappointed because of what they thought coming in, regardless of whether it was realistic.
I agree with those saying 2.5 years in is way too early to really be making judgements. Things could go one way or another, but regardless there is seemingly no way Yow makes a move until after year five or maybe year six. We may as well just sit back, relax and hope for the best.
BJD: I’m with you on the VT performance being more unsettling than the Loiusville one. I had UoL down as a loss and VT down as a winnable swing game. What was more baffling was kind of how it happened. I’d said in the UoL post game that we shouldn’t let them beat us twice. I figured that if we were losing to VT it’d be because we came out flat, started slow, dug a hole and played into Beamerball. It was the exact opposite, which pointed to in game coaching adjustments, injuries or the team letting up. None of those three are good.
On the comparisons to other P5 programs, the ones that stick out to me are Kansas, Illinois, Kentucky and Indiana. If we don’t get this thing righted, that could be the scenario. Right now we’re probably most like Purdue or Pitt.
I don’t see us as like Maryland. Sadly as much as I dislike the Terps, they have real hope of a massive outside influx in cash to the Athletics department in the form of Under Armour. They are where Oregon was in the late 80s. The question is whether UA seems the same synergy from helping them that Nike saw with Oregon.
So, Playboy is getting out of the snatch market and getting in a nitch market? 🙂
For those disappointed in the VT game, that game may have been lost the week before. How so? The players really thought they had a shot at the Division championship. Sports history is full of examples of teams not being able to get up for the next game after losing a big and meaningful game. We did this in ’67 when we were ranked #3 and lost to Penn State when we couldn’t get in from the 1 on 4th down. The next week at Clemson we lost a game we would not have lost earlier.
The bye comes at a perfect time. We can recover emotionally, put the mistakes behind us, the silly penalties, the apparent lack of effort which I attribute to the emotional downer.
Grey: I hear you and I’d have said that if we’d have come out flat and gotten down. We didn’t. We got out hot, got up and the it unraveled. Not so sure….
Here’s to hoping a bye week fixes what ails us. It was always the best thing that happened every year for the last staff.
I mentioned it after the VT game, but haven’t seen anyone else even reference it. Surprised by that. But then, I doubt the TV provided the views to see what I could from the stands.
Losing Hakim Jones to injury when the score was 10-0 was huge. If you’re not remembering this, it was when the stands started booing because they thought Jones was faking the injury when he went down by the sidelines (he never returned).
I told the Hokie I went up with, “Trust me, if Jones is going out, he is hurt. As long as Pratt is in the game, you all have a good chance to score.”
That is when the game turned. Pratt is not ready, not sure he ever will be. There’s a reason why a 6’3″ 234 lb sophomore safety hasn’t been getting much meaningful playing time, and it’s not because he doesn’t have the physical tools. He was immediately abused, including VT’s first TD. He not only made mistakes on 3 of their big plays in the 2nd quarter, but he took out teammates while doing it.
I’m assuming the coaches saw it, for they quickly took Pratt out and replaced him with #24 Boone. For a few plays, things seemed to settle down. But then Pratt was soon back in, looking lost again. I have no clue what was going on, or what or why the coaches were thinking whatever they were thinking.
That doesn’t explain the offensive collapse, but big Mo’ can be funny sometimes. When Jones went down, it was like a switch had been flipped. Immediately on the first play.
Hopefully Jones will be back in time for Wake.
No excuses to not have a quality backup at this point. At least one who knows where to line up, pre snap.
^ Nice use of the self-quote. 😉
And, yeah, they can’t afford to drop players like that and expect to not suffer for it.
“Grey: I hear you and I’d have said that if we’d have come out flat and gotten down. We didn’t. We got out hot, got up and the it unraveled. Not so sure….”
Ryebread,
IMO the first quarter reflected Doeren getting them ready to play. Just not sustainable. The 3rd quarter reflected Doeren getting the team back up. Again, just not sustainable as that emotional energy drops back down.The bad calls, the silly penalties, the play call gaffes, the rookie mistakes, all of that crap, it’s all over. The rest of the season we will see the team we were all excited about. Well, nearly all.:rolleyes:
The beating ourselves stops in Winston-Salem.
.That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. :p
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