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I was wondering this morning when was the last time two non-interim Head Coaches got fired after beating Notre Dame (in the same season)?
It seems near-certain to happen to Charlie Strong and Dave Doeren.
So…get researching/thinking. And yes, “resignations” that are face saved firings count for the purposes of this query.
Given DD has a five million plus buyout, he’d be a complete idiot to resign…Unless a heretofore unknown donor steps up with said $5 million, plus $5 million more to sweeten the deal for the next guy, I don’t see it happening. We will have to endure recruiting going in the crapper again, and then another 5+ year rebuild. Rinse. Repeat.
Yeah that buy out is not cool, man. Honestly right after the BC loss I wanted coach fired immediately regardless, but reflecting upon it the best course of action for the program long term may be to eat another crappy season next year with Dave as basically a lame duck.
If Yow were to hire someone end of season then I don’t think we’d have the $$$ to get a decent coach after paying the DD buyout. We’d probably get some crap coach for what we could afford and have him locked up for 3-4 more years of substandard football. Dave’s extension was an epic blunder.
Seems logical to eat it with Doeren for one more season and have a new AD conduct a proper search where we can be in a better position to offer a competitive salary.
Sucks balls, but I think the patience game may be a necessity at this point.
If DD has a $5M buy out, Yow should be fired immediately and then sued for damages. DD doesn’t need a $5 buy out, much less a $5M.
I don’t think any coach at NC State needs a buy out. It is obvious that if the big money programs really want our coaches, that buy out isn’t going to stop them. All it does is limit our flexibility.
Per a USAToday article last week, DDs buyout is 2.59 million. Whatever the number it isn’t chump change. Look at some other buyouts though.
Charlie Strong at Texas – 11+ million
Purdue Coach (just canned) at 4.9 million
Kirk Ferentz at Iowas – 25 millionHiring a college football coach is expensive. Firing one is, too.
gso packbacker: Thanks. I’d read that article but couldn’t remember the numbers. I didn’t think $5M was right for DD and thought it was $2.5M-$2.6M. I think we owe DD $2.2M or so to coach next year. Paying the buy out would basically be paying him for a year not to work. Hopefully he finds a job elsewhere and it offsets the buy out some as well.
Three thoughts associated with that:
1) I’d love a job where people would pay me $2.5M not to work next year. Sign me up and I can be as bad at any of those jobs as DD has been at this one.2) Those buy outs make zero sense. Buy outs in general make almost no sense. The agents must be getting paid as part of the buy out and thus are pushing so hard for these. The buy outs aren’t stopping the coaching carousel, not stopping coaches from getting fired, and aren’t doing anything with recruiting either (read some postings about how recruiting always follows the same trend around hires/fires and years).
3) Promote from within and our costs next year could almost be a wash. Yeah, we’d give the assistant a bump, but it should not be anything like those numbers. Maybe they fire an assistant or two and hire someone else, but there’s assistant churn every year. Last year we wanted Canada gone badly enough to fire him even though it was likely he was going to be gone anyways. Assistant buy outs, any relocation costs, etc. must be minor relative to the overall spending the way they’re handled.
I’m fine with the idea of buyouts (it works well in business), but it seems that it’s gone waaaay overboard. From the University perspective, is it just an insurance policy if someone wants to hire away our coach? Heck, I would love to have that problem.
Doeren’s guaranteed or base is $840K or $70K per month.
His contact expires on 12/31/2019. Right, wrong or indifferent…we pay him that.
AD Yow successfully saved $1,000,000 when she cut TOB. He was due $600K for 2 years. He had a non-compete clause. He settled for a single $200K payment to take a UVA job. These are facts from reading Doeren’s contact and several news articles about TOB’S departure.
Doeren’s contact also provides a supplemental amount of $1,360,000 or $113,333 per month. That stops when he is no longer the HC.
Doeren’s package is $2.2 Million. Fedora makes about 50% MORE. Doeren’s contact has a bunch of incentives. So does Fedora. Fedora gets about $1.3 Million of his from shoes, RAM’s Club & Radio/TV. WPC does not pay Doeren a dime. Shoes/apparel & Radio/TV is paid to AD. Both are big time $$.
Which side of the line is so Stellar that you would quickly promote that individual? Kitchins (sp?) is only other name that is floating to top. Remember how Darth Vader chose his new General or field commanders? Also remember how he also relieved them when they failed? Is that what the rank and file Wolf Pack fan wants?
Read the Clean Sheet thread. Pure Economics. Add $3 per ticket for 3 years to cut Doeren.
Add $4 more to get salary to UNC levels. But that doesn’t get high paid coordinators. Kick up concessions by 15% and/or maybe $1 per ticket for staff pay increases.Roo: Feels like your solution sticks it to the “common man” who in this instance is sort of locked in to paying because of LTR. It is economically feasible, but seemingly a path of little to no accountability for people who hired DD and then extended him. I’d suggest that would be a poor PR move and is one that still doesn’t address that Yow is a lame duck with a poor hiring track record.
The “promote Kitchings” plan is seemingly a very low cost, low risk way to “let it ride” until Yow retires. Des might succeed (he can certainly recruit, which is a key skill needed), but if not the next AD will be in place and ready to make their most important hire.
Doeren’s guaranteed or base is $840K or $70K per month.
His contact expires on 12/31/2019. Right, wrong or indifferent…we pay him that.
AD Yow successfully saved $1,000,000 when she cut TOB. He was due $600K for 2 years. He had a non-compete clause. He settled for a single $200K payment to take a UVA job. These are facts from reading Doeren’s contact and several news articles about TOB’S departure.
Doeren’s contact also provides a supplemental amount of $1,360,000 or $113,333 per month. That stops when he is no longer the HC.
Doeren’s package is $2.2 Million. Fedora makes about 50% MORE. Doeren’s contact has a bunch of incentives. So does Fedora. Fedora gets about $1.3 Million of his from shoes, RAM’s Club & Radio/TV. WPC does not pay Doeren a dime. Shoes/apparel & Radio/TV is paid to AD. Both are big time $$.
Which side of the line is so Stellar that you would quickly promote that individual? Kitchins (sp?) is only other name that is floating to top. Remember how Darth Vader chose his new General or field commanders? Also remember how he also relieved them when they failed? Is that what the rank and file Wolf Pack fan wants?
Read the Clean Sheet thread. Pure Economics. Add $3 per ticket for 3 years to cut Doeren.
Add $4 more to get salary to UNC levels. But that doesn’t get high paid coordinators. Kick up concessions by 15% and/or maybe $1 per ticket for staff pay increases.I am not saying you are wrong here, but how in the hell can an ACC/NCAA coach have a non compete clause in their contract?
Rye,
I am a 2 LTR common man. I know many like me. They are of a common chant. Shoot up here amongst us, one of us gotta have some relief.There is no solution that I see that doesn’t involve increased ticket prices. Read all the comments in the other threads.
Fire ADYow. Pay her severance. Fire Coach Doeren. Hire a New Ad and let them hire a new coach. Problematico!
Exactly WHERE is the $$ coming from for a more expensive AD & HC? The WPC can’t “Donate” for that. So you want the big $$ donors that funded the various FB upgrades to antee up? If Murphy was still privately held, then your morning bacon would go up. UNC & ECU & non FB fans would see an increase.
There ain’t no free lunch. What do you suggest? If you try to run it as a business, you cannot cut excess costs for non revenue sports. NCAA & Federal courts control that. CF is usually a sellout or close….not like some schools with 50% attendance. Make students pay full price for their tickets?
I am captive. I don’t see a magic bullet….but maybe you or others do.
Don’t take this personal…what are the other viable and realistic options?Roo, like said in other post, there is no real option. Most us common men are just tired of footing the bill and the notion of needed to foot more. Guess my point is there needs to be accountability amongst the powers to be at NC State, most important the AD. They made this mess, they need to find the $$ money to right it without hurting the common man more.
Its a catch 22, as a common man with LTR seats one cant just decide to wash their hands of the football program. Money is spent, budget is tapped to buy season tics and WPC contribution. Its depressing. As a parent also of a NC State student, student tickets are not free, the cost is added into tuition. Some use it, most choose to not attend games, but its a mandatory fee to all who attend. Point is there is a lot of revenue indirectly for football. How bout the bowl money allotted to schools, is it not shared like the basketball tournament? OK, off my soap box, there is a way out of the financial and football mess besides sticking it to the common man.
I also would like to see the AD fired, but with a last name of Yow, I’m not holding my breath. The NCAA’s asinine decision to suspend Omer Yurtseven for 9 games, which was criticized by Jay Bilis and Coach Gottfried, was instead praised by our AD, who was apparently pleased with the resolution of the case. Per the newspaper, she stated “The NCAA conducted a thoughtful analysis of Omer’s situation….”Their staff exhibited considerable concern for fairness and for the welfare of this conscientious young man in their decision.” Whose side is she on?
I don’t want her picking a new coach any more than I want seeing Doeren remain our football coach through 2019. As another “common man LTR seat holder”, I’m probably going to abandon my football seats altogether unless something changes in a hurry. 20 years is enough; and for this school, it’s been beyond the call of duty.
We’ve been bad way too long to drag this out any longer. We don’t need 4 more games (or seasons) to change the painful fact that this program, at best, is among the bottom-feeders of the Power 5 conference football members. Worse yet, I see no hope whatsoever of this changing anytime soon.
And as far as beating Notre Dame is concerned, Matthew had as much to do with that as Dave.
For the purposes of this thought exercise, ASSUME Doeren and Strong get the axe.
When was the last time two similar pink slips got issued? Perhaps this says as much about the quicksand underneath Brian Kelly’s feet and how far off the pace ND has fallen in general as anything..,
Wonder how the overpaid execs at NBC, or whatever dumb network purchased the Exclusive ND FB rights are doing? Bet THEIR bonuses are lumps of coal from Santa.
Maybe they are giving refunds or credits or such to advertisers like the NFL Networks are contractually bound to do for low ratings. Is BK the CK of college FB?
Do you know the answer, BJD?
OK, off my soap box, there is a way out of the financial and football mess besides sticking it to the common man.
That’s life my friend. Now, anyone with high morals would want to fix something they obviously f’ed up but that’s not the way in a world that is controlled by money. Why do anything when you’re playing with money that’s not even yours?
WolfPack92Owen,
“I am not saying you are wrong here, but how in the hell can an ACC/NCAA coach have a non compete clause in their contract?”Should have added….Non-Compete ACC School Clause. Thank Les Fowler (OK, I did NOT even think that….much less type it). I did briefly in an email ask AD Yow if it were true and she said yes….sometimes you are dealt a good hand if if you play it well, you win big (or something to that effect). So, she confirmed it. Here is the references with the details.
https://ncstate.rivals.com/news/report-tom-obrien-heading-back-to-virginia
Think outside the box here, but maybe we go old-school and pull a Mike Kekich & Fritz Peterson move and swap coaches (not wives) before the game. We can rule out Jimbo, Richt, and Fedora, but perhaps we could get Dino Babers from Syracuse and call it even.
At least our hopes would be re-inflated temporarily.
If that’s not possible, invite Boeheim and his wife to the game. Maybe she can take over the helm. Surely some of us would be distracted and enjoy the gameday view a bit more.
Bjd – regarding the domers and Kelly vs strong and Doeren…keep in mind that unlike both strong and Doeren, he has clearly passed the results of his predecessors. Strong and Doeren are historically bad for their respective institutions…that can all change – at least in Doeren’s case if things go the right way, but one guy clearly resurrected the program, if only for a few years, while the others are trying to meet the results of their predecessors.
Yeah, when you’re worse than the guy who got fired…you tend to get fired.
Somewhere, under a ladies’ gardening hat, there emits a wry chuckle…
Yea BJD – I always thought that if we had hired that dude with Gardner’s hat 5 years earlier we would have been much happier with the results. We got a staff and coach who knew what they were doing they were just old and I doubt football was as important to them in the last few years at Raleigh as it may have been or they may not have had the same energy.
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