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This article is the compliment to this article. We are going to take a historical look at the Gottfried tenure at NC State and breakdown how the Pack
[See the full post at: As the calender turns, so does the Pack]For those who identified Bennett, you nailed it. I was a more of a Greg Marshall fan, even dating back to his Winthrop days. Comparable teacher of the pack line defense, and imo, better on the offensive end. Recruiting is so overrated these days. Sure, top tier talent is irreplaceable, but motivation and teaching can and will beat talent, when the gap isn’t that wide.
Cat needs to shoot more, not less. He’s one of our better options if he’s utilized effectively. This team is Gottfried’s worst offensively, and he appears to be unwilling to tweak things, insisting instead on putting a square peg in a round hole. One projected strength of this team going into the season was depth. None of the bigs stand out as significantly better than the others, each has strengths and weaknesses. Run them in and out, speed up the dang game, press, trap, push tempo.
My short is looking good this morning. Might take a little off the table after the Duke game.
Good article, sir!
Let me start by saying that I like Gott and would love for him to succeed here. I thought with the staff he put together here guys like Lutz and Early would mask some of his weaknesses and really build a strong program. However, here in year 4 I think we are starting to get a good idea of what we have in Gott.
IMO Gott’s results are Herb-esque with a different style of play and a slightly higher ceiling. His teams will never be consistent enough to win a conference championship but will usually have enough talent and strong enough SOS to squeak into the tournament. Once there, our talent and style of play might allow us to go on a mini run if we play defense, as pointed out above. I could see his teams get hot enough to MAYBE win an ACC tournament once every 8-10 years and an elite 8 is about as far as I could see a hot Gott team going in the dance.
I just can’t see his teams being consistent enough to ever be more than that. As I said, I like the guy, but in the back of my mind I’m starting to worry that he does just enough to hang around while somebody else scoops up Archie Miller…
I think part of the issue is the change of the game in general. This is a college basketball issue. Look at the scores from last night’s games. First the ACC match ups and then only the top twenty-five match ups. Notice how many games are in the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s. Only a few were able break 70. The game has turned to a hot mess of hacking, grabbing, and poor free throw shooting. It makes the “parity” people exited. Look at UVA’s roster only one 4 star on the team. Now I think Bennett is a excellent coach but are you telling me he has coached up ALL of his three stars to look like a team like this and the last two years? Not every player pans out due a number a reasons. I guess he has a good eye for talent.
I think they should lower the shot clock. Not trying to hijack this thread but I do agree with the general consensus that the Pack will have to develop a consistent defensive pressure to win games and make the tourney. When they went to the zone in the first half it was a great call. Second half the man to man D picked up and it was good. I don’t think they went to the zone in the second half while the game was still in doubt. Don’t understand that. I could be wrong though.
I think what frustrates me most about this team (and for the most part, all of Gott’s teams) is the lack of fundamentals in some pretty basic areas. I spent about 10 years coaching 10-12 year old girls, and it usually took me about 1/2 a season to get them to run the pick-and-roll…I watched the Utah-Colorado game that followed the Virginia game last night, Utah was running the pick-and-roll over and over…the wings would pull out away from the basket with the center at the top of the key, leaving no one in the paint, and the guards would dribble past the pick and then lob the ball to the wide-open post player for easy layups. BJ can’t do that??? And we suck at using screens…you’re supposed to touch shoulders with the player setting the pick, force the defender to either foul or go under the pick (which WE do all the time, giving up wide open jump shots). But we leave two body widths between the pick and the dribbler. WTF??? It seems like once the defense makes adjustments to our offense, we have no plan B…and we end up taking jump shots.
The game has turned to a hot mess of hacking, grabbing, and poor free throw shooting.
I despise what college basketball has turned into. It is awful. It is almost impossible to referee farily in its current form. Give Bennet credit he is riding K’s coat tails. I think I have watched one college basketball game that NCSU was not in. It is brutal and watching UVA is just drudgery.
Who needs numbers or analysis to figure out that Gott is not earning us another title of any sort?
Different people use different methods to come to conclusions. For some, it is the “eye test” for some it is facts and some just never change their mind. I like this type of article because it is hard to argue with the numbers.
Zaphod: “…the guards would dribble past the pick and then lob the ball to the wide-open post player for easy layups. BJ can’t do that??? ”
BJ was doing his part all night (or at least for the 2nd half that I saw), but never got a pass thrown his way.
A Good Defense is NECESSARY.
What’s the best case scenario? Hire an assistant that can teach it?
Best case scenario is hiring a coach who understands it takes both sides and is a quality recruiter and that doesn’t mean going after the highest rated player you can get and trying to get them to fit your system. Honestly I have no idea what goes on behind closed doors, Gottfried may be doing everything right but is coming up craps most every time but the product on the floor and the results/stats show he’s not getting it done and it’s not changing. Just wash, rinse, repeat. The one thing that remains the same in all 4 years is the coaching staff, if firing Gottfried and with someone who may be better isn’t an option then a shakeup on the staff is necessary.
From all I’ve read, and if someone with real inside knowledge knows differently, then the staff is composed of 2 recruiters and 1 defensive coach who is organized. IF Gottfried is listening to or letting Lutz run the defense then he must be replaced.
I also question the ability of the coaches to identify talent, not rankings, and get the best possible players to fit the system they are trying to implement.
I also question the leadership of the staff. Give the players/team an identity and go with it. I hate Bennett ball but his team has an identity and they do it really freaking well. 2012/13 is the only season I’ve seen the fast paced, high scoring, high offensive efficiency identity work under Gottfried. That season should have been a banner year for him but he apparently couldn’t control egos and thus it was a bust of a season.
Again I have no inside knowledge as to practices or if players like each other or not. Simply put the product on the floor is Sendekian level results without the style of play and continuing to chop wood in Daytight compartments will continue to result in deciding what flavor of Hubba Bubba we have each season.
BJ was doing his part all night (or at least for the 2nd half that I saw), but never got a pass thrown his way.
[/quote]Beejay had zero points, zero rebounds, zero assists, and 4 turnovers in his 18 minutes on the floor. What part was he doing exactly?
Best case scenario is hiring a coach who understands it takes both sides and is a quality recruiter and that doesn’t mean going after the highest rated player you can get and trying to get them to fit your system.
Could you expound on which players you feel don’t fit our system?
And what you think those players are missing?
There were several times I saw BJ drop into the lane off the pick and roll but was never passed the ball. To me that shows a lack of trust between these players.
There were also numerous times when the lane was wide open for a pick and roll but there was no roll but that’s for another thread.
Best case scenario is hiring a coach who understands it takes both sides and is a quality recruiter and that doesn’t mean going after the highest rated player you can get and trying to get them to fit your system.
Could you expound on which players you feel don’t fit our system?
And what you think those players are missing?
I’d first ask what system are we trying to run? I honestly have yet to identify what we are trying to do out on the court. I’ll admit i don’t know all the different offensive and defensive sets that are out there so I’d appreciate it if someone can explain to me what system MG is running because I’d honestly like to know.
Unless you are an up and down the court fast paced offense I’d assume we’d need big men who can box out on defense, have soft hands that can catch/pass, and relatively high Bball IQ, especially if we are running attempting to implement the High Post Offense. Those are skill sets I don’t think any of State’s bigs have. Abu may be the lone exception but he may be too inexperienced to show it.
I think the twins are a nice fit. I also think we lost a good player in Harris when he transferred to Providence after his freshman year.
I think MG and staff have missed on or made the wrong decision on to many scholarships in their recruiting. Think of all the players that have left and the stop gaps they have tied up with multi year players. This isn’t football where you can miss on a couple every year, you have to be right a lot on who you bring in and then keep them, not enough scholarships to continue to make several mistakes each year.
MrPlywood
BJ was doing his part all night (or at least for the 2nd half that I saw), but never got a pass thrown his way.
Wasn’t trying to imply BJ is incapable of receiving the pass on the pick-and-roll. More was trying to insinuate that the pick-and-roll doesn’t seem to be part of our offensive strategy.
I see Cat being very tentative attempting to pass into the post. It’s like he’s afraid to make that pass.
what flavor of Hubba Bubba we have each season.
The “Herble” would also work for State fans…but he isn’t faring quite as well in the desert. (Though he appears to be eating well.)
“Beejay had zero points, zero rebounds, zero assists, and 4 turnovers in his 18 minutes on the floor. What part was he doing exactly?”
He was at least doing his part on the pick and roll, that’s all I was talking about. There were several – 6, 7, 8? – times in the 2nd half that BJ rolled to the basket with no one on him, and no pass. That’s all I was saying. The other aspects may play a part, as Jigawatts said, maybe a lack of trust in BJ to finish?
I see plenty of other post players who aren’t world beaters with their floor game, but their teammates get them the ball in point blank range and they finish with a layup or a dunk. With the worlds longest wingspan it seems that the Pack could figure out a way to do the same with BJ.
I think MG and staff have missed on or made the wrong decision on to many scholarships in their recruiting. Think of all the players that have left and the stop gaps they have tied up with multi year players. This isn’t football where you can miss on a couple every year, you have to be right a lot on who you bring in and then keep them, not enough scholarships to continue to make several mistakes each year.
DeThaey, Harris, Raymond, Lewis, Purvis…..
Is there anyone on our current roster that you would trade for one of those guys?
This is an interesting comparison, btw.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=desmond-lee&p1=rodney-purvis&p2=2-rodney-purvis
what flavor of Hubba Bubba we have each season.
The “Herble” would also work for State fans…but he isn’t faring quite as well in the desert. (Though he appears to be eating well.)
That is one man who seems never to learn from his mistakes, if he ever admits he makes any. You’d think he’d have learned by now to change his scheduling philosophy but I guess he’s too busy in his daytight compartment to notice. Honestly I don’t think Herb would have made 4 of his 5 NCAAT appearances at NCSU under the current evaluation process. So in that respect I’d say MG is a step up from even Herbie but getting the same results that Herb did while he was here.
Gott’s teams consistently underachieve based on each team’s talent level. Jim L and Tony B teams consistently overachieve based on talent levels. Moreover there does not seem to be any strategic synergies in Gott’s paradigm. He simply tries to recruit talented folks and have them run a relatively complex offense. Execution is not there…that’s his excuse. They are too young etc… I buy that its a great system if executed properly but that’s the rub…he can’t teach it effectively to college teams with churn. Moreover he doesn’t have mitigating talents to bring into the mix.
Defense is not corrected by hiring an assistant coach…defensive teams spend hours in practice…ya know…practicing defense – until it becomes second nature…or HABIT. Gott’s teams spend the vast majority of time practicing offense. Sure they’ll play harder some games and show glimpses but…don’t fool yourself.
There is little reason – other than catharsis – to critique the details when the forest is in plain view…for those who are able to see it.
P.S. – Anyone read “The Power of Habit”? Tony Dungy’s paradigm is explained in detail.
In this day of instant gratification, parent coaches, entitlement and sissified athletes you can’t stop kids from transferring. You just can’t. Duke loses players, Kentucky loses players, UNC loses players.
Most of those transfers had someone else in their ear. I mean just look at the comments on this board. Anyone who has ever been a volunteer coach thinks they’re Doc Rivers. No wonder these kids don’t know who to listen to.
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