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Rick,
I believe the coaches feel that defense is important. They wouldn’t be coaching at this level if they didn’t.You can believe what you want but I like to look at results.
Last year we were 160th in the nation in points allowed.
228 in defensive rebounding
118th in defensive FG percentage
Maybe it was just Vandy and WBS’s fault so let’s look at the year before that.
257th in pointsd allowed
138 in defensive rebounding
127th in defensive FG%
Year before that?
189th in points allowed
127th in defensive rebounding
90th in defensive fg %If the coaches truly feel it is important that feeling does not carry over to the players.
We stink at defense. We are not even top half of the country at it despite your beliefs.Still at the end of the day the desire dictates how successful you will be. Learning how to box out is not difficult. Its not hard to slide QUICKLY over to help on back side defense. It’s not hard to hustle down the court to help in transition defense instead of dragging up the court hoping you can cherry pick a sweet dunk for Sports Center. Yes there are basic fundamentals. Ball and your man in eye sight at all the times. Once you get that down everything else is gravy.
I compare good defensive players to good coaches who were never that good when they played the sport. Usually there is a direct correlation between how good an offensive player you are and how good you are at the defensive end. Not being a smart ass but have you thought about that for second? Sure there are exceptions but how often is that true.
I think this team has the chance to be good at defense I really do and you are right show me first because your track record has shown otherwise.
Rick, The results don’t necessarily mean they don’t spend time on it. Maybe it’s not enough for you. Maybe they do need to spend more time on it I don’t know. More than anything this coaching staff has to find a way to get these kids to WANT to play good defense.
Rick,
By the way I never said they have played good defense in the past. Please correct that.
“We are not even top half of the country at it despite your beliefs.
We are fixing the defense with personnel instead of coaching
Works for me…
It’s a chicken and egg kinda thing… either way… anyway…That said… Better athletes means more options on the offensive end of the court too..
Heard on the Street… (Wall Street, that is… )…
Prior performance should never be construed in any way whatsoever as an indicator of future results.
In today’s high turnover D1-MBB … same could be true.The proof, as always, will be displayed on the scoreboard.
Trust the Coach.#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Rick, The results don’t necessarily mean they don’t spend time on it. Maybe it’s not enough for you. Maybe they do need to spend more time on it I don’t know. More than anything this coaching staff has to find a way to get these kids to WANT to play good defense.
You have stated it is not that hard to be good defensively.
Still at the end of the day the desire dictates how successful you will be. Learning how to box out is not difficult. Its not hard to slide QUICKLY over to help on back side defense.
If it is not that hard then why are we not good? IMO it is because the coaches do not place an emphasis on it. If a coach truly wants something done it will get done. Which brings me back to saying Gott has never, through his whole career, made defense an emphasis. I could be wrong and this could be the year he finally does but I see nothing to make me think he has changed. There are not even quotes from him talking about some new defensive emphasis. So what basis are you using to come to this belief? It appears to me that it is simply becasue you want it to be so.
Rick,
By the way I never said they have played good defense in the past. Please correct that.
“We never been even top half of the country and there is little reason to believe we will be despite your beliefs.
Will that suffice? My intention was not to misquote you.
Heard on the Street… (Wall Street, that is… )…
Prior performance should never be construed in any way whatsoever as an indicator of future results.While that is true it is also all we have. There is a lot of player turnover so we have to look at the one constant. The one constant through all this garbage defense is the coach. Which is why this whole we are better because of the players argument rings hollow. We had plenty of athletes over the past 3 years and have stunk on defense each of them.
From a Wall Street perspective, if you have a stock that for the past twenty years has gained 4% would you bet that stock will gain 40% next year? It certainly might but I doubt you would bet on it.
I think there’s a chance we’ve been rebuilding our roster with improved defense in mind.
The first two years our best players (outside of Howell) were headcases. Last year was freshmen and TJ.
I understand our defensive stats have been in line with Gott’s record, but from the athletes we’re bringing in, it does look like he’s trying to change that.
if you have a stock that for the past twenty years has gained 4% would you bet that stock will gain 40% next year?
… My wife frequently argues with the kitchen sink…
Begging the question….
Certainly not if there were no significant changes internally or externally…
On the other hand…What if … that same Company had a new SVP Finance, SVP Mktg , SVP Operations ( pick two out of three) and had successfully completed the acquisition of it’s biggest competitor ?
How would you evaluate that?
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Athletic defenders are necessary to upgrade our defensive play. But what is also desperately needed is a mindset – a focus. Bennett and UVA focus on Defense. Just watch him coach in-game. K is the same way (though his results have slid of late).
I don’t claim to know what Gott and his staff truly focus on during practice and film study. But I do know he doesn’t yank players when they blow an assignment.
TEAM defense is a mindset and it takes work. It’s a “I got your back” mindset. It’s about taking the charge, leaving your man to get out on an open shooter, hands in the passing lanes, boxing out each and every time, etc.
I don’t know if we can get there or not, but we can certainly do better.
The players change (and the returners hopefully improve) almost every year, but the coaching staff hasn’t. Therefore I’ll join the crowd that doesn’t expect significant defensive improvement…but would be happy to see it.
Whether or not the coaches spend “enough” time or place a “high” emphasis on defense is a meaningless distinction. The results suck and that has to change if State is going to go further in the NCAAT than it has over the last 20+ years.
Like I said…we shall see. This year will be telling, because this year’s version clearly has the personnel to be above-average defensively (at worst). An uber-efficient offense with above-average defense is the perfect tourney combination, in my view (since nobody is excellent at both).
I would rather be our style of play than Tony Bennett’s, any day of the week. Mark my words, he will NEVER make a Final Four.
And like others have noted above, there are plausible reasons for us to have been bad defensively the first three years. Not so in 2014-15. Give this group a chance, then judge accordingly.
PG and C to hoops defense is like C/SS/CF to baseball defense. We should get 80 minutes of plus defense from those positions next season. Last year, we got about 25-30.
1st AP poll is out. We got some votes which is nice to see. They have us at 35 overall, 7th in the ACC.
I would rather be our style of play than Tony Bennett’s, any day of the week. Mark my words, he will NEVER make a Final Four.
On that I think we can all agree. I hate watching uva play. I will not do it.
if you have a stock that for the past twenty years has gained 4% would you bet that stock will gain 40% next year?
… My wife frequently argues with the kitchen sink…
Begging the question….
Certainly not if there were no significant changes internally or externally…
On the other hand…What if … that same Company had a new SVP Finance, SVP Mktg , SVP Operations ( pick two out of three) and had successfully completed the acquisition of it’s biggest competitor ?
How would you evaluate that?
Sends to be the CEO,cfoetc are the constants. We keep changing the miss level managers.
Maybe this analogy had run it’s course
…most of what the wife tells the sink is exactly what i expect….
when it’s not incoherent and redundant..#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!We suck at d because Gottfried allows it. He had some incredibly athletic teams @ bama.
Guess what – I hear herb’s really going push the tempo this year instead of slowing it down…sounds absurd doesn’t it?
We may be good at d this year but it’s foolish to expect it from this staff. I hope we are because this team will likely be his worst one offensively.
Personally, I think we can be adequate defensively if we simply become a great rebounding team…. And if this team is not in the upper half of the conference in rebounding – the responsibility lies with the staff.
Tyler Lewis and Jordan Vandenberg are gone. Tyler won’t get burned anymore and Vandy won’t pick up ticky-tack fouls. So that’s addition by subtraction. Cat and Beejay will be getting those minutes (more or less), so who would argue that they’re not better defensively?
If we’re gonna continue to play man-to-man, we need to improve at defending ball screens. IMO, that has been our worst aspect of “team defense”. That, and defending in-bounds plays. We’ve been decent one-on-one and our bigs are decent (if not better) in defending the lane and rim.
Red – gone too are Tyler’s assist and low turnover ratio.
Vandy – he’s played well enough that he’s in the d-league. One could argue that With better coaching he’d be in the league. Ticky tack fouls werent limited to vandy during gotts tenure.
Again, aside from having more horses this year – what in gotts extensive coaching career makes you think he’ll have a great or good enough team defensively?
If you think the d will lead us to a year when we aren’t at best a bubble team you are basing this on what we all hope will happen, not the historical evidence.
Recent history suggests that Duke will flake out very early in the NCAAT, but I’m not ready to suggest that K can’t coach defense.
If it weren’t for Gott, Vandy would be playing in Australia, not the NBADL. Vandy benefited from Gott’s coaching.
Our defense, IMO, will be “good enough” if we can handle ball screens, pick & rolls, and special situations. I’m not saying we’ll get there, but we will be improved. That’s good enough for me.
Our defense, IMO, will be “good enough” if we can handle ball screens, pick & rolls, and special situations. I’m not saying we’ll get there, but we will be improved. That’s good enough for me.
THIS, a million times over. And if this group has more natural defensive ability than on offense, it will be a good fit for what MG stresses in practice. As long as he does stress defense with his PT rotation.
I am willing to give MG some benefit of the doubt because he did finally deepen his player rotation last season. He IS learning, IMHO. I think he’s vastly more intelligent than Lowe, and vastly less stubborn than HWSNBN.
Low hurdles, for sure. But note the VASTLY.
All the advanced metrics show that even at his worst last season, Hipster Cat was a better player than TAFKAWBS. He may be the worst defensive player I have ever seen. It was the defensive equivalent of when Gavin played PG at Cincy, game in and game out.
Vandy fits the role of “Over 7 feet with a pulse.” The NBA seems to really value that, Chuck Nevitt had like a 12-year NBA career and played maybe 20 minutes total (IIRC).
Vandy and TAFKAWBS were also not good to have in the locker room. They didn’t buy in, to put it mildly.
Here’s the picture I paint for this team. They will start as “B” defensively, “B-” offensively. They will learn and progress, and by March, they will be “B+” defensively and “A-” offensively. Dangerous. And fun to watch.
Just because he’s a leaner, meaner version…doesn’t mean the HippoHOOK will go away. It will be quite a weapon we unleash on the ACC.
Rick,
When I say thet you don’t have to be good to play defense I mean individually not the team. I also mean not good as in scoring twenty a night and jummping out of the gym. That’s just semantics.
Yes Gottfried has never had good defenses. I am basing our expected improvement on what everyone else has said. Based on Lewis leaving and Vandenberg gone. Good team defense is only good as it’s weakest link. Both of them were weak. Now one could argue we still played bad defense when they were on the bench. Thats probably true. Just watching these players develope over the summer.
I guess I am being an overly optimistic Pack fan.
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