4-Star RB Johnny Frasier Signs With NC State

Pack1997 wrote:

I was the one who said they don’t get separation. I watched every game this past season with a former ACC safety and NFL player. He was very clear in pointing out for a defense how easy the offense is to defend. Even rewinding plays to show the receiver struggling. Therefore I stick to my point. Are the receivers big and fast sure, but they aren’t being taught how to run routes smoothly or how to use their bodies to help them. They have the physical skills, but not the fundamentals to go with those skills. Whether it is because our QB cannot throw the ball well down the field or the OC not calling the right plays our offense is easy to predict. Run play, or pass to the back are options one and two. Option three and four is either an out pattern or curl pattern by the WR, normally 10 to 12 yards. This allows the safeties to come up because they aren’t worried about much else than those options. But I guess he doesn’t know what he is talking about either.

That is a far cry from saying our receivers don’t get good separation.

2016 Yrds.Per Catch:
Louis-19.4
Harmon-17.1
Trowell-16.6

…And yes…Finley did have spells of overthrowing the deeper routes, particularly the seams, when we caught safties cheating up.

Also, I hope Dayes gets drafted to a place where he gets an opportunity to play. I think he can be a solid back in the NFL.

Pack1997 wrote:

COW either way we will still have the same problem. I don’t see how we are better this coming season, when very little will have changed. I say this every year, in the major sports, “I hope I am wrong and we are better than I think we will be.” Most years I am disappointed.

Fair enough. Y’all just don’t be callin’ out the wideouts. That’s my job.
😉

Pack1997 wrote:

COW either way we will still have the same problem. I don’t see how we are better this coming season, when very little will have changed.

In a sport of inches very little has to change to make a difference. One “change” Doeren mentioned at the Coaches Caravan last night is the difference in the OL from this year to last year. He said and I quote, “Last year the O-line couldn’t block the D-line.” He went on to say that this year the 2 are going at it — competing. He also was very complimentary about how the 2 lines, while going at, it they are working with each other, not fighting each other. He seemed proud of the team in that regard. I am too.

We didn’t give up all that many sacks last year but our O-line was pushed into the space the QB had to work in. The QBs and the WRs get the blame but the O-line must take its share. Ball watching only lets one see a small part of the problem. I have to discipline myself to watch the O-line.

I would like to know what a WR “struggling” looks like. I know what drops and such look like but not “struggles.” Perhaps Pack1997’s friend could explain tell us what that looks like. I can’t tell if a route has not been run correctly or if a throw is off either.

A better blocking O-line is one small change that can be huge.

Mr. Dog, I apologize for stepping in to your discussion but since neither of you have as yet mentioned the O-line as a sometimes problem, I thought I would.

ryebread wrote:

Grey: I appreciate the healthy discourse. I must say that there are obvious WTF plays every single game:
– Fake punts when leading yet deep in one’s own territory
– Time outs before kickoffs
– Down and distance issues consistently, particularly around the goal line

Now one could point to kicking and I would agree with them. The kicking game under this staff is the worst it has been since I started watching NC State football in the early 80s. Some of the kicking issues may be confused/crossed/causal for some of the WTF coaching decisions. Heck, if I were DD, I’d call up Frank Beamer and see if he’d be interested in 2nd in command and in charge of special teams.

The other issue is momentum. Get a lead and DD sits on it. He doesn’t try to put teams away. Heck, we tried to give the bowl game away this past season and it could have gotten really tight if it for a couple of outstanding individual plays.

On offense, I’m not sure we improved with our OC hire. Great pedigree and all, but the fact was that Boise had their worst season in years with him calling the plays. This season they were right back to their winning ways. I never sensed an identity game in and game out and we clearly were pass happy in several of out losses, seemingly ignoring our stable of backs and what I thought was solid OL play that improved all year. I think this year will tell us a lot.

On receivers, we’ve got the horses and the speed. It’s either scheme, QB play or poor route running. Given I’m not seeing the games in person, it is kind of hard for me to tell (TV only follows the ball).

QB play needs to improve this year. Like the kicking it has been consistently bad under DD. Yeah we probably got spoiled by Rivers, Wilson and even Glennon, but MOC got a lot more out of his QBs than DD has. A team like State is going to need good QB play in order to really do anything.

“I appreciate the healthy discourse.” Thanks, Rye, me too. It is exactly what I come to these sites for, not to be snarky or have clever insults. I can get that at home. LOL Just kidding and have no basis to say that at all.

– Fake punts when leading yet deep in one’s own territory
– Time outs before kickoffs
– Down and distance issues consistently, particularly around the goal line

Doeren is responsible for everything that happens but he doesn’t make all the mistakes the team makes but assumes the responsibility. Rumor has it that the fake punt was called by a player on the field. That hasn’t been done since, has it?
The TOs before a kickoff was in my opinion was a teaching moment. IMO bad timing for a teaching moment but not mismanagement of TO’s which is what he is getting credit for. Those early days must have been a true learning experience for Doeren. He has never had to deal with that level of inexperience and lack of talent before. Hopefully we are over the hump with a young coach taking his lumps learning to be an HC in a P-5 conference. When will we as fans stop looking in the rear view mirror for WTF moments and dragging them into the prescient? Dwelling in the past (looking in the rear view mirror) detracts from looking at the future. The game is played in the present but the plans for the game are developed looking in the future — both near and distant futures.

Down and distance issues only occur when what we do fails. Logical, what we fans think would work, gets stopped by good defenses. I’ve seen what I thought were WTF moments on Sunday were professional coaches making big bucks were calling the shots.

One thing that tempers my thinking about offense issues is our OC is also gathering experience. The question you have to ask is “Do I want a bright, innovative, young OC or do I want an experienced OC with a limited up side.”
Doeren has had to make that decision because he had to dismiss Canada — and he had to do that — otherwise it would not have happened. IOW there is a behind the scenes reason that will never be made public IMO.

I like your kicking comments. Well played. Just hiring Beamer as a consultant would be a cool move.

I have the same or similar thoughts about momentum and killer instinct. Doeren doesn’t seem to have the killer instinct. Seems to not want to embarrass other coaches by “piling it on.” He should watch the Md game where we came back from certain lose to big win.

Doeren is a very smart man. I’m believing he will learn from his mistakes when the coaches review their own performance — and they do that every year.

We both know that high end QBs are in great demand. Most are ID’d as early as 8th and 9th grade. These guys have been courted for years. QB’s are not like linemen who can be developed through S&C programs and taught “trench skills”. Doeren not only didn’t have a high end QB, he started out with a converted 2nd string WR who was injured in the first game of Doeren’s first season here. How bad is that? Looking out of the windshield we have a very good QB commit for 2018. He’s hitting receivers in stride in the 40 to 50 yard range and he has QB measurables. Brissette filled in nicely while we restocked the talent cupboard.

I disagree somewhat with you OL comments but not entirely. I’ve expressed my opinion about that in an earlier post.

One good thing about Doeren, he’s mistake free in 2017. 🙂

Again thanks for the conversation. It’s hard to find decent football talk this time of year.

Funny how you hear what you want to hear. I never said they were small and slow. I said they don’t get good separation, and lack the fundamentals required to get separation. Being tall and fast is only a portion of the equation. For example, Kelvin Benjamin ran a 4.53 40 time and is 6 foot giant. The knock on him last year was he didnt run precise routes and couldn’t get separation from the defender. But since he doesn’t get separation, to you that would mean he is 5 foot 6 and ran a 5 second 40?

Pack1997 wrote:

Funny how you hear what you want to hear. I never said they were small and slow.

PackofMac wrote:

We do not have size or speed at wide out,

Easy with the “you hear what you want to hear” accusations. You and PackofMac were both in the same conversation with Mr. DOG. No need to get snarky over an easy to make mistake. I was following along and thought you had said it also. Tracking back to verify something like this is a pain since if the conversation is on 2 pages, you lose your post when you switch back and forth.

Disagreement in discussion is fine. It’s all opinion but let’s keep it cool.

choppack1 wrote:

And let’s face it, football is a game that is usually won in the off-season…which is where the process stuff is key.

Glad you pointed this out. (The rest of your post was pretty much right on as well.) The process is Doeren’s strength — that and organization.

I went to a few practices the first year and the football alumnus I was with said something like, ‘I have never seen a practice as organized as this.’ He’s not totally rigid either.

We practice before school now because the players requested it. It makes arranging classes much easier and they aren’t worn out from practice during the time they are studying. It says a lot about the kind of students the players are to make this kind of request. (Hey, don’t dem have any classes you don’t have to go to class or study like we do here on da Hill?)

chop: That’s a good summary of where many are. I think we’re doing a whole lot of things right. I think if we had a kicker, a QB and took the headset off of DD during games, we’d be much happier.

I also think we may overly estimate the talent level we’ve had. This past season we looked more like a functioning football team that is “so close” but one also has to remember draft day. We had 3 guys drafted, and 2 of those were in the 7th round. The NFL finds the guys that can play, and have arguably the most rigorous pre-draft selection process in American sports. They’ve basically told us that we didn’t exactly have a stocked senior class.

DD and staff can do all the process stuff right, but eventually they’re going to have to up the recruiting level. That’s also been an issue that many have flagged. We get the same “coach ’em up” retorts out of some that we heard with TOB, but at least with TOB there was a clear track record of the NFL taking some of our less athletically skilled players. I’ve not really seen an NFL impact player come out of DD’s classes yet.

I’m patient despite the record. He was a gamble, but anyone we hire in football is going to be (and seemingly we’re at that spot now in men’s basketball as well). I’m find letting this one ride until the next AD.

The record can’t be glossed over and excused away though. It is what it is, and ultimately at the end of the day coaches are judged by that record. It’s not where it needs to be (as you mention with the comparison to the season that got TOB fired). It doesn’t matter if we’re the best 6-6 team around year in and year out. Eventually we need to get to 8-4 or 9-3 if DD is to be considered a success.

Rye – he definitely needs to get over the hump and beat a team or two he shouldn’t beat (, besides UNC – not that I am complaining)

Regarding the draft – the 3 players NC State had drafted tied us for 23rd in the country. While that ain’t earth shattering, it’s a solid number – especially when you consider most of our talent is in the junior class.

I think the recruiting is fine. Hopefully, they have learned not to offer scholarships to kickers based on athletic ability. To be fair, kickers are a unique bunch since so much of the challenge is mental.

I also think our QB was solid last year. Finley put us in position win 11 of our 13 games. He displayed an adequate arm and for the most part, good decision making ability. If he improves even just a bit, he will be having a 2nd/3rd team all-conference type season. The big question is whether he’s “peaked” with limited physical tools or if he develops a Davis type confidence issue. Remember, defenses now have a year of tape and will have a much better idea of how to attack him.

Correction… Last year our O-line could not block our D-line. Not so this year. Not that they are pushing the D-line around but are holding their own.

Grey – that’s a great sign. However, I think our OL was pretty solid last year.

I do believe we have a gem in our current OL coach.

As far as his record, to me 4-4 in conference definitely buys him another year (assuming we don’t do anything crazy like going 0-4 or 1-3 OOC).

That just tells us that sans Clemson, the rest of the programs didn’t exactly live up to what they had on board.
Right?