Your “Carolina Sucks” Game Thread.

[Greywolf]

TheAliasTroll wrote:

Lo Brown, without the benefit of watching practice and being with the team ahead of Gott’s arrival, was light years ahead of DSJ with respect to running this offense.

sorry not done with you yet…

Lorenzo Brown (freshman year) vs DSJ
==================================
FG%: 41.3% vs 46% (WINNER DSJ)
3pt %: 32.1% vs 38.4% (WINNER DSJ)
Free throw %: 71.3% vs 75.2% (WINNER DSJ)
Avg Rebounds: 3.68 vs 4.2 (WINNER DSJ)
Avg Assists: 3.74 vs 6.4 (WINNER DSJ)

The only meaningful stats LoBrown was better is blocks (by the tiniest margin) and turnovers (by the tiniest margin.. DSJ averages 1 more than LoBrown per game).

Please explain what aspects of the game that LoBrown was “light years ahead of DSJ” in. Light years…. c’mon man!

Alias,
Do you think individual stats equal running the offense? Or giving you the benefit of the doubt did you not understand the comparison was running the offense? Maybe things have changed but it used to be that running the offense meant having your teammates have great stats, not you. Smith is one and done. If he didn’t try to run my offense and make his teammates better, he’d do one and done on his ass on the bench.

You can put all the lipstick you want on this pig, it ain’t gonna make it pretty.

[rthomas44]

Hey Rick, We are all haters now. If you go back to the pages written during the game, I asked to fire him during halftime. Love you too.

[bill.onthebeach]

you guys are doing a fine job of exploring the unknown with little to back yourselves up…

nevertheless..
I can’t resist poking the snarly bears… just a little…

At this point in time — that is — right now — Markel Johnson does as consistently as good a job of “Running the Offense” as does Dennis Smith…

Markel could — given the time on the floor — be better than Smith at just “Running the Offense” — that is — playing a pure point guard position…

Now, there’s NO DOUBT Smith brings Firepower that Markel will only dream about… and on defense, there’s not a lot of difference yet, except height… Neither one is the worse defensive freshman guard we’ve seen, by far…

IF we didn’t have so many other guards/wings that can toss the Rock…
OR IF we had three BIGBOYS that could really Roll AT THE SAME TIME…

I’m pretty sure we’d being seeing whole lot more of the Smith/Johnson tandem in the backcourt… and we wouldn’t be fussing about it much either….

That said…
No… that would NOT have changed the outcome of yesterday’s game.

Ya’ll smoke that over….

#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!

[Rick]

rthomas44 wrote:

Hey Rick, We are all haters now. If you go back to the pages written during the game, I asked to fire him during halftime. Love you too.

So do you want him coaching Wednesday? 🙂

[ryebread]

Tau837 wrote:

Just curious, if we bring in Archie

You mention Arch, who would be my #1, #2 and #3 candidate wrapped up in one. I went and checked and Arch is 24-11 (.685) against the Power 5 + Big East. In every single one of those games, Dayton has fewer resources, exposure, recruiting budgets, etc. than their opponent.

Arch’s overall record against “NC State’s peers” is better than Gott’s high water mark while at NC State. He’s doing it with Dayton’s resources, not NC State’s.

Let that sink in…..

[rthomas44]

No, but,of course, that is above my pay grade. I realize that losing by 51 isn’t a capital crime but it is close.

[rthomas44]

Didn’t Gott resign midseason at Bamma
?

[StateRed44]

Rye,

Look, I wouldn’t have a problem firing Gott should we miss the tourney (especially with more days like Sunday). But, #1 it ain’t happened yet, #2 I didn’t hate him from the start which would cloud my judgement, #3 you gotta know your pecking order and be realistic about the environment – proceed with caution.

With that said, I’d have much rather had Dino Gaudio than Lutz as 1st asst. Never have been impressed with Lutz, I’m sure he’s a fine man and did well, but NC State is a different world than UNCC.

The absolute best course of action right now would be to get this team to buy in somehow and win right now. There is no doubt he knows the problem with this team, lets see if he can get it done to most’s satisfaction.

[StateRed44]

I’d toss Frank Martin in there as a fallback should we need, just saying. You want to see defense? He’s your man.

[TheAliasTroll]

Since only assists could be interpreted as an indication of RUNNING THE OFFENSE

the rest of what you posted just indicates a lack of understanding of what a PG is supposed to do.

Face palm. Okay, bud. Let the record show you think Lorenzo Brown is a better point guard than DSJ. Light years ahead.. because Texpack said so.. nothing concrete to back it up.. just one guys unsubstantiated opinion.

Factual stats showing otherwise? Throw em out!

PackFansNation.com

[ryebread]

StateRed44 wrote:

With that said, I’d have much rather had Dino Gaudio than Lutz as 1st asst.

The things that happened at Wake under Dino’s watch (or lack thereof) were not good. There’s a reason no one has hired him as an assistant. The #1 assistant is the guy that is supposed to take care of a lot of the day to day operations.

I don’t think Lutz is a great coach. I think he’s above average and hasn’t had a big platform to work from. He’d have been a better hire than Gott though.

StateRed44 wrote:

I’d toss Frank Martin in there

Yep, Martin is a better coach of Gott. I could rattle off 20 that make less money than we pay that are better coaches.

[TheAliasTroll]

Alias,
Do you think individual stats equal running the offense? Or giving you the benefit of the doubt did you not understand the comparison was running the offense? Maybe things have changed but it used to be that running the offense meant having your teammates have great stats, not you. Smith is one and done. If he didn’t try to run my offense and make his teammates better, he’d do one and done on his ass on the bench.

You can put all the lipstick you want on this pig, it ain’t gonna make it pretty.

another genius who wants to have LoBrown over DSJ!!!

Unbelievable! The original argument had nothing to do with “RUNNING THE OFFENSE”

Go back and read, folks.

PackFansNation.com

[TheAliasTroll]

Hey guys.. we need us a Jeremy Hyatt to replace an NBA lottery pick. Somebody tell Russell Westbrook he’s worse than LoBrown and Jeremy Hyatt because Westbrook is an all around SCORING PG.

What we NEED to do is to take the ball out of the hands of OUR BEST SCORER by a long shot. Great idea, fellas!

PackFansNation.com

[mak4dpak]

Ole Roy is 26-3 vs NC State, as a head coach at unc. Absolutely unforgivable. Gott needs to step it up, and make sure his teams give 100% on the floor. Never saw the hustle in the loss Sunday. If a next coach is needed, we better pay some good money for a top notch coach. Losing is never fun, and a 51 point loss to our most hated rival is shameful, no matter where you play. We gotta start being on the winning end way more often.

[Greywolf]

TheAliasTroll wrote:

another genius who wants to have LoBrown over DSJ!!!

No, just another poster hoping against all odds, Alias Troll could see that his posting of scoring %, rebounding %, etc., stats did not equal running the offense.

And no I’m not fool enough to go back through your 60 +/- posts and try to find “the original argument.” If I didn’t care enough to read them the first time, I damn sure ain’t going to read them now.

[McCallum]

Gott should watch Hoosiers.

He doesn’t and that is part of the reason he sucketh.

McCallum

[TheAliasTroll]

No, just another poster hoping against all odds, Alias Troll could see that his posting of scoring %, rebounding %, etc., stats did not equal running the offense.

Fantastic, because running the offense was never my argument.

Sorry, but DSJ was never brought in here to be John Stockton. It doesn’t fit with what Gott’s trying to do.

I’m not about to sit here and throw an 18 year old under the bus after a bad outing, especially coming right off a triple double.

PackFansNation.com

[ryebread]

I’d agree that we didn’t lose by 51 because of DSJ. He may have had a bad game and was off to a rough start in the 4 minutes I watched, but you can’t pin that on him. It requires a lot of collective sucking to lose by 51. Cut the guy some slack. He just came off of one of the all time great games ever by a NC State player.

There are two things in all the coaching debates that tire me:
1) Running down the players to defend the coach: Whether it’s WTNY because the next crop are better, or “the coach doesn’t miss shots, tackles, etc.” or “our players aren’t that good” or whatever the reason, many of these types of posters cannot seem to find the same level of “constructive criticism” about the coaching staffs. They seem to forget these coaches are paid millions and assistants hundreds of thousands while the players are paid a fraction of their value to the university, are the ones training and conditioning, risking injury and trying to balance a course load too.

2) Running down former coaching greats to prop up an obvious current underachiever. We see it with V and we saw it with Sheridan in football season. I’ll give you guys a clue — V could take either roster from Saturday night’s game and wipe the floor with Gott.

But by all means, carry on with why this team isn’t all that talented and should be happy sneaking into the tournament. We’ll look back and debate just how much talent was squandered this year.

[Rick]

Rye,
I hate that too. Remember I did it with Brandon Costner. I learned from my mistake

[Wulfpack]

There are two things in all the coaching debates that tire me:
1) Running down the players to defend the coach: Whether it’s WTNY because the next crop are better, or “the coach doesn’t miss shots, tackles, etc.” or “our players aren’t that good” or whatever the reason, many of these types of posters cannot seem to find the same level of “constructive criticism” about the coaching staffs. They seem to forget these coaches are paid millions and assistants hundreds of thousands while the players are paid a fraction of their value to the university, are the ones training and conditioning, risking injury and trying to balance a course load too.

Fantastic post. Players change, yet the same excuses coming from the man in charge don’t.

[redwolf87]

I’d like to thank old friend Wufpacker for pulling me off the ledge. Well, more or less. You learn not to expect too much.

Oh yes. This was as bad as it gets. Pretty damned close. But there is time for redemption. It had better come quick, and fast, and hard, and complete…but there is time for it.

Not even saying it will. But, if it does, it will be swift and sweet.

And, if not, it opens up the conversation as to what we do from here. Because that horsehockey Sunday was inexcusable.

[Tau837]

ryebread wrote:

Tau837 wrote:

Just curious, if we bring in Archie

You mention Arch, who would be my #1, #2 and #3 candidate wrapped up in one. I went and checked and Arch is 24-11 (.685) against the Power 5 + Big East. In every single one of those games, Dayton has fewer resources, exposure, recruiting budgets, etc. than their opponent.

Arch’s overall record against “NC State’s peers” is better than Gott’s high water mark while at NC State. He’s doing it with Dayton’s resources, not NC State’s.

Let that sink in…..

I get 24-13 for Archie to date. These were the opponents:

ACC: Wake, BC (2), GT (2), Syracuse (2)
Big Ten: Minnesota, Iowa (2), Ohio State, Northwestern, Nebraska
SEC: Alabama (4), Ole Miss (3), Auburn, Florida, Texas A&M, Arkansas (2), Vanderbilt (2)
PAC-12: Southern Cal (2), Cal, Stanford, Colorado
Big 12: Oklahoma, Baylor
Big East: Seton Hall, Providence, Xavier

Impressive for him for sure, but hardly comparable to the P5 schedule that Gott has faced during his tenure. Yes, he has fewer resources, etc., but to compare his P5/BE record to Gott’s is apples and oranges.

[Tau837]

ryebread wrote:

There are two things in all the coaching debates that tire me:
1) Running down the players to defend the coach

Agreed.

ryebread wrote:

2) Running down former coaching greats to prop up an obvious current underachiever. We see it with V…

Agreed, but I must have missed where anyone has been running down V in this discussion. Who did that?

[Mike]

To chime in on the DSJ/Lo Brown argument. No doubt DSJ is a better talent. I think the point though is who would do a better job running the team.

Here is the issue with DSJ, and we saw it Sunday. Sometimes he forces the issue and the results are bad. When he lets the gaem come to him, he is very effective.

I keep hearing triple double. Yes, he had the 2nd triple double in Pack history, fantastic! Go back and compare the halves – his first half was rather pedestrian but the 2nd half was outstanding. What was the difference? First half, he forced several, none of which went in. He was trying to create too much out of nothing with his passing and drives (or just dribbling too much into traffic). The 2nd half was more flow and letting the game happen. Yes we had a big lead at half, but his numbers did not really accumulate until the 2nd half.

Great talent, but he needs to learn this is not HS and not AAU. When he does play within the framework, he is fantastic. When he goes rogue, he looks like a freshman PG.

Did DSJ cost us the game at UNX? No, everyone was awful. But early on, he tried to do too much, maybe from reading his own triple double hype, and forced shots, turned the ball over, and never got into the framework of the offense. Your PG sets the tone, and early on, he set the tone for a bad day. 51 points, no, but enough that we got in a hole (no un intended) and could never dig out.

[ryebread]

Tau837 wrote:

Yes, he has fewer resources, etc., but to compare his P5/BE record to Gott’s is apples and oranges.

You are right. Comparing their conference records compares the programs against peers. Some peers have more, and some peers have less. Arch’s record against conference opponents is superior.

In every one of those games we’re talking about, Arch was clearly against an opponent with superior resources. We should compare Gott’s records in those sorts of match ups. By my mark that would be games against Duke, UNC, Louisville and Syracuse in conference as well as Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA, Arizona, Indiana, Michigan State, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida and Michigan non-conference. I’m sure Gott can match Arch’s record there.

I’m not saying Arch is a savior. I know Gott’s not the answer, and there is a lot of evidence that Arch would do better. Also because of his connections and MUCH lower salary than Gott, it is a coach we can likely get. I tend to think he’s the guy, but will get snapped up by a high major (in that list above) and then we won’t be able to touch him. We should make a move now as opposed to continuing to piddle around with Gott.

Tau837 wrote:

Agreed, but I must have missed where anyone has been running down V in this discussion. Who did that?

There was some nonsense in here about Gott running superior practices versus V and Gott being a great task-master. It is an example of that behavior. Gott’s great paired with a slight on V. V won league and national titles, in a time when the ACC’s non-conference record was far superior to what it is now and when the high majors had great teams that stayed together multiple years. Get back to me when Gott wins that first conference or national title and we can start comparing them.

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