Lots of UNC-CHeat news this week

The Final Four obviously is this weekend. The ACC has two of the four teams in Syracuse and North Carolina. This week has also brought out lots of discussions from a national perspective on the academic scandals at Syracuse and specifically in Chapel Hill. There are too many stories this week to have separate entries so here is a sampling of what has been written and said about UNC this week:

Pat FordeOn Probation vs. Under Investigation

The Final Four matchups are now set. In one national semifinal, we have Villanova vs. Oklahoma. In the other, we have On Probation vs. Under Investigation.

Also known as the Outside Counsel Billable Hours Invitational, underwritten by Bond, Schoeneck & King. Also known as Questions 1 through 30 for NCAA president Mark Emmert, should he have his annual meeting with the media in Houston. Also known as Syracuse vs. North Carolina.

Matt Jones

After that Interview, he was on Twitter as a follow-up:

Andy Katz

ESPN’s Katz interviewed Mark Emmert, president of the NCAA, about several items earlier this week. One of the topics was the UNC scandal.

NCAA president Mark Emmert said the final notice of allegations for the North Carolina investigation into academic fraud “will be done in the coming weeks or a month or so.”

In an interview with ESPN after his news conference Thursday, Emmert said the enforcement staff wants to get it done but also wants to make sure the facts are straight.

“The next step is the delivery of allegations,” Emmert said.

“It’s a great, big, complicated case, and it’s taking a long time to get all the information in place,” Emmert said. “We’re not putting a timetable on it.”

Dan Kane

Kane, who has been investigating this UNC scandal in an excellent way for the past few years with the News and Observer, wrote two articles this week regarding the scandal.

First, he wrote an article in which a 2003 UNC report contradicts what UNC says regarding the number of independent studies classes.

UNC-Chapel Hill, which is under investigation for fraudulent classes involving athletes, has maintained that students were not subjected to a limit on independent studies until the 2006-07 academic year.

That stance appears to have narrowed one key part of the NCAA’s investigation.

But a new document released by the university in March shows that the limit on independent studies started before 2003. Other evidence suggests that the limit was in place since the early 1990s.

In response to a long-standing public records request from The News & Observer, UNC provided a 2003 faculty report that proposed numerous curriculum changes.

Deep within the report, the authors cited a 12-hour independent studies limit. Noting that curriculum changes can’t happen if they run counter to General College and Arts and Sciences guidelines, the report said: “That might mean, for example, considering whether to reaffirm the current rule that an Arts and Sciences student can count toward graduation only twelve hours of independent study.”

The start date of that 12-credit-hour limit is critical because the NCAA considers that athletes who exceeded it received an impermissible benefit.

Going back further than 2006 would add well more than 100 athletes to the list of 10 that the NCAA said exceeded the independent study limit through classes that had no professor, never met and yielded a high grade for an end-of-class paper.

For example, records show many athletes on the 2005 men’s basketball championship team took multiple fake classes, which were directed and graded by a clerical employee in the African studies department – including a star player who took 12 hours’ worth in the spring semester when the team won the title.

His second article was an updated primer on the status of the scandal. Here is one of the questions (and answers):

Q: Men’s basketball coach Roy Williams says there are no NCAA allegations involving men’s basketball. Is that true?

A: No. The NCAA’s case against UNC alleges men’s basketball players received impermissible benefits by receiving special access to the fake classes, largely through the efforts of academic counselors in the athlete support program. Men’s basketball is among the three programs that primarily benefited from the special access. The exhibits along with the notice cite examples of that access, including men’s basketball counselor Wayne Walden working with Crowder to put athletes in the classes. Williams brought Walden to UNC from Kansas.

The notice does not accuse Williams or the coaches of wrongdoing, but the fake classes aided his players, particularly those on the 2005 championship team.

So, before UNC plays Syracuse in the Final Four on Saturday, go through the above links as these topics won’t be addressed much during the game.

About ruffles31

1996 NC State graduate who is still waiting on his first ACC conference championship in any of the four main revenue sports (football, men's basketball, women's basketball, and baseball) since enrolling. All I want is a ACC Champions t-shirt.

General UNC Scandal

Home Forums Lots of UNC-CHeat news this week

Viewing 25 posts - 176 through 200 (of 223 total)
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  • #102925
    Adventuroo
    Participant

    Having lost a few moral victories in my day and getting thrown off my trusty white steed and having to use duct tape to fix my lance, I can tell you…..IT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN.

    THAT was the purpose of my post. I can NOT state exactly WHEN I came to the realistic viewpoint that NOTHING of any consequence was going to happen. NADA…..NOTHING, save Sylvia Hatchell being thrown (that is a GREAT GIF) under the bus. Odds are, Bubba has already negotiated with her….she is toast. What is REALLY frightening is that with her health, the public shaming might have a result that copies Jimmy V. The Stress from his public lynching, based on my extensive medical background, was a major contributor to his cancer. Maybe she will be immortalized and have a building named after her.

    There was one comment on the afternoon radio sports show….which I rarely listen to, but I had an errand to run….

    UNC played it hand quite well…..flawlessly some would say. They controlled the tempo of the investigation and then lobbied amongst the commissioners and powers that be….to “rewrite the rules” and then to use the NEW rules in their case. It was a prime example of how if you have enough lawyers and lobbiests….you TOO, can get favorable regulations….

    It is OVER. NCSU will not make any public statement…..except to say that we will have Gender Neutral Potties in the NEW Reynolds….

    #102926
    MrPlywood
    Participant

    I stand by my statement. Just stop playing UNC. I’d bet that FSU, GT, Syracuse and Miami would join us given that all got way more from the NCAA and ACC for less. I’d bet that Clemson would too. The ACC would either completely implode or sanction UNC.

    That’s the sort of move you don’t make on your own and hope that other schools will join in. It needs to be brokered behind the scenes, and announced as a group. I can easily see State going out on its own and left hanging out there to dry.

    RE: the reaction of other schools around the nation, I hope that they are waiting for the final judgement before speaking out, and not just planning to stand by the wayside. But I’m not getting my hopes up.

    #102927
    ncsu1987
    Participant

    Hey, Stick, I post very, very occasionally on PP, but I use the same username.

    CD, trying hard to keep the faith, man…

    #102928
    ryebread
    Participant

    Ply: what’s the worst thing that happens? Would we get kicked out of the ACC? Big deal. We might be better off as an independent, especially as one known to have taken the moral high road. The endowment would grow significantly almost overnight though. That’s a trade I’d be willing to make.

    The only move left is the bold one. If I were Chancellir Randy, I’d be working the phones right now.

    #102929
    Adventuroo
    Participant

    I was also out at lunch time and leaving a PT session. David Glenn, whom I rarely listen to was ranting and raving. He may be smart. He may be dumb. He may be witting. He may be a lot of things….as well as a Lawyer….and having raised one (UNC ye gads….but he is happy), I can not get my hands around this.

    I did a bit of research tonight and came up with his 16 minute segment (rant if you like). I OFTEN listen to political commentators or politicians that I detest….and that I take a shower afterwards…..just to see what they are saying and their logic.

    Here is a link to David Glenn’s opening. It has the “TWO REASONS” that you MUST (Should?) KNOW….prior to making comments. Don’t know if I agree, but he seems to make some interesting points.

    Two reasons why the UNC case is a bad fit for the NCAA

    He DID leave out that the NCAA also “SKIMS” off the top. the NCAA has a CASH RESERVE of almost a BILLION….thats RIGHT….B with BILLION dollars. Their annual report is out there and I read them a few years ago…The amount was about $750 Million, so with additional Skimming and some Market Appreciation….it should be around a BILLION….

    Read, listen, comment whatever. I did NOT say that I agreed, but that you always want to have information and process it for yourselves….

    Write AD Yow….her email address is public knowledge and she WILL respond….

    #102930
    pakfanistan
    Participant

    #102931
    fullmoon1
    Participant

    So, how does one go forward from this point on as a college athletics fan? What’s the point? There is a really good chance I have watched my last ncaa event. I am proud to say that moment was long before the tarheel 2nd place championship finish

    #102932
    PackerInRussia
    Participant

    I would guess that other schools will want to make a stink (particularly the ones who have been punished in the recent past), but will wait until punishments are handed down. It’s too early for them to do anything. If there really is just a wrist slap or only the women’s bball program gets punished or if their punishment is less than what other schools have received, it would make more sense for them to wait and see and then start talking.

    #102933
    Rick
    Keymaster

    So, how does one go forward from this point on as a college athletics fan? What’s the point? There is a really good chance I have watched my last ncaa event. I am proud to say that moment was long before the tarheel 2nd place championship finish

    I am struggling with this as well. If there is no level playing field why bother?

    #102934
    modobrew
    Participant

    <span class=”embed-youtube” style=”text-align:center; display: block;”>[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geiLmHQYvQ8?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&autohide=2&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent&w=640&h=390%5D</span&gt;

    Perfect. And I love these guys. Great concert if you ever get a chance to go see them.

    #102938
    ryebread
    Participant

    fullmoon1: Best answer would be to effectively stop, and to definitely stop spending any money towards it. If all they care about is the money, then the only thing that changes it is the money drying up.

    It’s really a fantastic model though. Every one of these big schools graduates 7k-15k more customers every single year. The schools want to provide enough winning to hook the kids into giving and spending later. Kids are dumb and idealistic. It takes years for that to dry up.

    Where I contend it backfires is when people become jaded and wisen up (towards their peak earning years), they won’t in turn pump the big money in. This is why I think the NCAA is killing the goose. Most 30-40 year olds that I know won’t be giving $$$ towards athletics. When those 60-70 year olds that are giving lots die off, where do the schools go?

    #102942
    highstick
    Participant

    Same here ‘Stick, although I do not own another alternative alter ego, anywhere.

    The old guys had it right on the first go around, and I am stickin’ with it until disposition day.

    “Old guys don’t get to be old guys without gaining some wisdom”…Using that wisdom correctly is the difficult task.

    BTW, nasty water from Chocowinity all the way to the Pamlico Sound is disgusting!

    "Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!

    #102943
    highstick
    Participant

    Hey, Stick, I post very, very occasionally on PP, but I use the same username.

    CD, trying hard to keep the faith, man…

    I’ve seen you. I had to slightly modify cause some had grabbed mine first, but I’ve never seen him post.

    "Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!

    #102944
    highstick
    Participant

    Plywood said: “That’s the sort of move you don’t make on your own and hope that other schools will join in. It needs to be brokered behind the scenes, and announced as a group. I can easily see State going out on its own and left hanging out there to dry.

    In general, I agree, cause we’d screw up the timing most likely…However, that’s what happened with South Carolina and Frank Howard “chickened out”…Funny, maybe Clempson should call themselves the “Coots”!

    "Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!

    #102945
    highstick
    Participant

    So, how does one go forward from this point on as a college athletics fan? What’s the point? There is a really good chance I have watched my last ncaa event. I am proud to say that moment was long before the tarheel 2nd place championship finish

    I am struggling with this as well. If there is no level playing field why bother?

    We could all be the Washington Generals…

    "Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!

    #102946
    ncsu1987
    Participant

    Hey, Stick, I post very, very occasionally on PP, but I use the same username.

    CD, trying hard to keep the faith, man…

    I’ve seen you. I had to slightly modify cause some had grabbed mine first, but I’ve never seen him post.

    Yeah, I knew who you were – from the similar name AND from the content! There’s a short list of posters on PP that I read, but you’re one of them…

    #102950
    PittsburghPackFan
    Participant

    So, how does one go forward from this point on as a college athletics fan? What’s the point?

    This is where I find myself. NCAA won’t care, because I am not a cable subscriber, nor a donor, nor a season ticket holder. I just watch from afar, occasionally taking in a Wolfpack game on local broadcast (ACC Network! YEAH) or going to a Robert Morris game.

    But if this is what we think it is, and UNX gets off scott free for the worst cheating ever documented, then I am just done.

    From now on I’ll get all my sports fixes from the Pros, where there is at least a facade of a level playing field.

    It gives me great pain to say that, because I grew up around the Triangle and the ACC is in my blood.

    #102951
    Hungwolf
    Participant

    Best idea I have heard is someone should start an online petition to boycott attending or watching on TV any game UNC Men’s Basketball is playing in protest of their fraud and 20 years of cheating other schools out of the chance at fair play and genuine sportsmanship! I am sure fans from schools all across the country would jump all over this! Send a message to the NCAA, ESPN, other media outlets, and the ACC.

    #102952
    Adventuroo
    Participant

    Here is the “Official” response to my inquiry of AD Yow about the UNC situation. I picked up the theme that the lack of discernible action by the BOG besmirches the integrity of the Consolidated UNC System and also copied Mrs. Spellings and Dr. Woodson. Debbie, as usual, popped back within a few minutes….write them all…at LEAST they will know what the sentiment is….

    As you know, the process has not yet been completed and will likely take another 4-6 months. At some time during that period, the NCAA will identify the sanctions for the violations. It seems counterproductive to assume what those will be, even though the amended NOA content is considerably different than the original NOA. We will wait to learn how this is ultimately managed before drawing any final conclusions.

    I understand your concerns and share them.

    We will continue to be diligent to protect against any systemic violations of NCAA rules. Maintaining our integrity matters at NC State and we will not take short cuts in order to win games.

    In the spirit of the Pack,

    Debbie

    #102953
    modobrew
    Participant

    This was the response I received yesterday.

    All,

    This is a group response because the answer is the same to each request for feedback regarding the amended NOA recently received at Chapel Hill.

    As you know, the process has not yet been completed and will likely take another 4-6 months. At some time during that period, the NCAA will identify the sanctions for the violations. It seems counterproductive to assume what those will be, even though the amended NOA content is considerably different than the original NOA. We will wait to learn how this is ultimately managed before drawing any final conclusions.

    Please remember that the NCAA has been fair to us as they dealt with the Eric Leak issue, as we disassociated him from our program and trespassed him from campus, in an effort to protect our teams and athletes. I share that as an example because they could have adopted a different approach that would have been more punitive. But they saw us make all the appropriate choices and acknowledged our efforts by deeming the violations as secondary. So, I am appreciative that when they have worked directly with us, they have done so collaboratively.

    We will continue to be diligent to protect against any systemic violations of NCAA rules. Maintaining our integrity matters at NC State and we will not take short cuts in order to win games.

    In the spirit of the Pack,

    Debbie

    #102954
    Rick
    Keymaster

    Maintaining our integrity matters at NC State and we will not take short cuts in order to win games.

    Truer words were never spoken. We are fighting with two hand tied behind our back. If we are NOT going to play with the big boys we might as well drop to DII.

    #102955
    budfox88
    Participant

    I sent DY an email yesterday morn, and got the same plastic response as above from her robo. 1) DY…you cannot POSSIBLY equate the Leak issue with decades of academic fraud, so that is just a giant excuse to do/say nothing (no balls). 2) Why wouldn’t you publicly question the legitimacy of the new NOA with no meat; if you wait until the dust settles, then don’t bitch when nothing happens to the Cheats (too late!), and the joke’s on us. Make some noise DY!!!! 3) That last ppg is the most laughable of all, maintaining OUR integrity has nothing to do with the UNCheat mess, unless we continue to play them. Aren’t we complicit if we continue to play their game? And in doing so, aren’t we sanctioning the NCAA’s handling of this by continuing to play the Cheats? Is keeping quiet so we don’t rock the boat and continue to generate precious revenues part of maintaining our integrity? Sanctimonious BS! And what good has come to us by maintaining our integrity when the NCAA is rotten to the core, as we know it is. Kill 2 birds with one stone, as I suggested in my email yesterday to DY, send notice to the Cheats and the NCAA (one and the same) that we will withdraw from all sporting events with the Cheats going forward. Take a stand and let the chips fall. What good has it been to sit back and get slaughtered by the cheats on an on-going basis while we “maintain our integrity”? So we can sleep an night? I would sleep better at night if DY would tell the Cheats they can shove those sham-ass banners right up their asses, and then tell NCAA they can find another guinea pig to play the Cheats, that from now on, we are playing teams who are more concerned with maintaining their integrity. See, if we put the pressure on now and let it build, the spotlight will get brighter on the NCAA to do something. Doing nothing will only encourage the NCAA to sit on their hands until it all just goes away. Ah hell, I know that’s just fantasy anyway.

    #102956
    packof81
    Participant

    So we don’t want to make waves with the NCAA because they might get mad and penalize us more severely over the Eric Leak issue. Maybe I’m ignorant but I wasn’t aware the NCAA ever had anything on us because of Eric Leak’s activities anyway.

    The broad consensus is that the NCAA has set the table for NOT taking down the men’s BBall banners. So when they follow through on this, will we then be told that it’s too late, that ship has sailed?

    #102957
    ncsu1987
    Participant

    Maintaining our integrity matters at NC State and we will not take short cuts in order to win games.

    Truer words were never spoken. We are fighting with two hand tied behind our back. If we are NOT going to play with the big boys we might as well drop to DII.

    Integrity matters to me, and it’s why I think a lot of us are struggling with the whole idea now. Rick, glad to see others share the sentiment.

    Again, I will await the COI before final judgement, but if the field of play remains blatantly unbalanced, I would rather not play. DII sounds fine to me.

    #102959
    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Not one of Yow’s finer moments. Good golly.

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