Lots of UNC-CHeat news this week

The Final Four obviously is this weekend. The ACC has two of the four teams in Syracuse and North Carolina. This week has also brought out lots of discussions from a national perspective on the academic scandals at Syracuse and specifically in Chapel Hill. There are too many stories this week to have separate entries so here is a sampling of what has been written and said about UNC this week:

Pat FordeOn Probation vs. Under Investigation

The Final Four matchups are now set. In one national semifinal, we have Villanova vs. Oklahoma. In the other, we have On Probation vs. Under Investigation.

Also known as the Outside Counsel Billable Hours Invitational, underwritten by Bond, Schoeneck & King. Also known as Questions 1 through 30 for NCAA president Mark Emmert, should he have his annual meeting with the media in Houston. Also known as Syracuse vs. North Carolina.

Matt Jones

After that Interview, he was on Twitter as a follow-up:

Andy Katz

ESPN’s Katz interviewed Mark Emmert, president of the NCAA, about several items earlier this week. One of the topics was the UNC scandal.

NCAA president Mark Emmert said the final notice of allegations for the North Carolina investigation into academic fraud “will be done in the coming weeks or a month or so.”

In an interview with ESPN after his news conference Thursday, Emmert said the enforcement staff wants to get it done but also wants to make sure the facts are straight.

“The next step is the delivery of allegations,” Emmert said.

“It’s a great, big, complicated case, and it’s taking a long time to get all the information in place,” Emmert said. “We’re not putting a timetable on it.”

Dan Kane

Kane, who has been investigating this UNC scandal in an excellent way for the past few years with the News and Observer, wrote two articles this week regarding the scandal.

First, he wrote an article in which a 2003 UNC report contradicts what UNC says regarding the number of independent studies classes.

UNC-Chapel Hill, which is under investigation for fraudulent classes involving athletes, has maintained that students were not subjected to a limit on independent studies until the 2006-07 academic year.

That stance appears to have narrowed one key part of the NCAA’s investigation.

But a new document released by the university in March shows that the limit on independent studies started before 2003. Other evidence suggests that the limit was in place since the early 1990s.

In response to a long-standing public records request from The News & Observer, UNC provided a 2003 faculty report that proposed numerous curriculum changes.

Deep within the report, the authors cited a 12-hour independent studies limit. Noting that curriculum changes can’t happen if they run counter to General College and Arts and Sciences guidelines, the report said: “That might mean, for example, considering whether to reaffirm the current rule that an Arts and Sciences student can count toward graduation only twelve hours of independent study.”

The start date of that 12-credit-hour limit is critical because the NCAA considers that athletes who exceeded it received an impermissible benefit.

Going back further than 2006 would add well more than 100 athletes to the list of 10 that the NCAA said exceeded the independent study limit through classes that had no professor, never met and yielded a high grade for an end-of-class paper.

For example, records show many athletes on the 2005 men’s basketball championship team took multiple fake classes, which were directed and graded by a clerical employee in the African studies department – including a star player who took 12 hours’ worth in the spring semester when the team won the title.

His second article was an updated primer on the status of the scandal. Here is one of the questions (and answers):

Q: Men’s basketball coach Roy Williams says there are no NCAA allegations involving men’s basketball. Is that true?

A: No. The NCAA’s case against UNC alleges men’s basketball players received impermissible benefits by receiving special access to the fake classes, largely through the efforts of academic counselors in the athlete support program. Men’s basketball is among the three programs that primarily benefited from the special access. The exhibits along with the notice cite examples of that access, including men’s basketball counselor Wayne Walden working with Crowder to put athletes in the classes. Williams brought Walden to UNC from Kansas.

The notice does not accuse Williams or the coaches of wrongdoing, but the fake classes aided his players, particularly those on the 2005 championship team.

So, before UNC plays Syracuse in the Final Four on Saturday, go through the above links as these topics won’t be addressed much during the game.

About ruffles31

1996 NC State graduate who is still waiting on his first ACC conference championship in any of the four main revenue sports (football, men's basketball, women's basketball, and baseball) since enrolling. All I want is a ACC Champions t-shirt.

General UNC Scandal

Home Forums Lots of UNC-CHeat news this week

Viewing 25 posts - 76 through 100 (of 223 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #102776
    StateRed44
    Participant

    I don’t care about scholarships, post season bans, or Roy. I want banners coming down. I want ACC and NCAA championships revoked. Nothing else hurts them except the sting of losing their precious. They can easily weather any other punishment. Losing the laundry would be a total B-slap to their arrogant face.

    #102777
    YogiNC
    Participant

    I don’t believe UNX will publicate anything on the reception of the new NOA, redacted or otherwise, this time around.

    Four words CD, Freedom of Information Act, they are a public university, they have no choice but to publish it. They can redact the heck out of it but they have to publish it.

    Smarter than the average bear

    #102779
    Rick
    Keymaster

    I don’t care about scholarships, post season bans, or Roy. I want banners coming down. I want ACC and NCAA championships revoked. Nothing else hurts them except the sting of losing their precious. They can easily weather any other punishment. Losing the laundry would be a total B-slap to their arrogant face.

    I think best case is some scholarships and post season bans. Nothing is coming down.

    #102780
    TheCOWDOG
    Moderator

    @Yogi. I believe they will drag their feet on all FOI request until the point of self-imposing.

    Ineligible players by the dozens would indicate vacated championships across multiple sports…and yes, that includes MBB. How many is the question at this point.

    Doubters just don’t understand just how critical this is, nor how many BIG eyes are on it, including the United States government. Antitrust, baby.

    #102781
    YogiNC
    Participant

    There’s a term I haven’t heard in all of this BUT it really fits CD. That would be a nasty thing for all those lawyer types over on the hill to try and untangle. Antitrust could be their undoing. That would be REALLY NASTY.

    Smarter than the average bear

    #102782
    Whiteshoes67
    Participant

    ^There’s a limit to what they can drag out with the public record requests. I’ve given a few folks some advice on this end. FOIA doesn’t apply to UNC. State Public Records Law does. As long as the media and/or public is focused with their requests, it will come out. There’s no doubt the media will acquire the amended notice of allegations, with redactions, and do so very quickly. The tricky part comes from the clues in the NOA. That will lead to new information. If the requests are focused and not overly broad, then they, too, will be filled within a reasonable amount of time. If the media and public cast too big a net in their requests, the process can and will drag out.

    #102783
    StateRed44
    Participant

    @Yogi. I believe they will drag their feet on all FOI request until the point of self-imposing.

    Ineligible players by the dozens would indicate vacated championships across multiple sports…and yes, that includes MBB. How many is the question at this point.

    Doubters just don’t understand just how critical this is, nor how many BIG eyes are on it, including the United States government. Antitrust, baby.

    There may be a few big eyes on it but there are big brooms and big rugs eyeballing it too. I wouldn’t normally count on the government holding them accountable due to their liberal get out of jail free card, except for the only catch is the fact that a preferred grievance group is involved and theoretically being wronged. That may be their undoing.

    #102787
    Texpack
    Participant

    All you doubters may want to bookmark this entry.

    MBB – 3 or 4 year postseason ban Scholly loses cover that same period
    WBB – 3 or 4 year postseason ban Scholly loses cover that same period
    FB – 2 or 3 year postseason ban

    Almost every victory covered by the NOA (2002-2010) gets vacated for these three sports as well as other minor sports

    #102788
    TheCOWDOG
    Moderator

    @ Whiteshoes. Shoes, I sincerely meant to say State Public Requests. That gosh darned Yogi, messed me up 🙂

    Oh, to clarify, the antitrust is on the NCAA, and their “academics mission.” I’m tellin’ ya, we have congressional constituents that are all over this.
    (Out of state, of course.)

    #102789
    tractor57
    Participant

    Out of state – maybe in KY and NY? 🙂

    #102790
    TheCOWDOG
    Moderator

    ^ Don’t forget California.

    #102792
    MrPlywood
    Participant

    Can someone explain the antitrust angle?

    #102794
    TheCOWDOG
    Moderator

    http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/writer/jon-solomon/25322621/appeals-court-agrees-ncaa-violates-antitrust-law

    Better than having me butcher it, Ply. The case is in appeals, and the NCAA’s only card is to demonstrate that they are in the business of education. Something that UNX’S did not provide.

    #102795
    highstick
    Participant

    http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article73163537.html#navlink=Lead

    Kane’s latest…

    It is alleged beginning in the 1989 fall sem through 2011 summer sem, the inst permitted SA in multiple sports to compete while ineligible”

    BDevilU wrote: UNC Cheating Era Wins By Coach:

    Dean Smith 212

    Bill Guthridge 80

    Matt Doherty 53

    Roy Williams 176

    "Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!

    #102797
    Pack78
    Participant

    Found this on Yahoo; advance PR ahead of the NCAA hammer…are they performing better now that the fake classes have ‘ended’?

    http://www.tarheelblog.com/2016/4/20/11476148/unc-posts-perfect-apr-in-18-sports

    #102798
    TheCOWDOG
    Moderator

    Be very prepared for many more exclamations as the one pointed out by ’78, up there. For every time you heard Dickie V scream, “That’s the Carolina Way Baby!” , ten fold will be the fluff exaltations coming our way…until…

    #102800
    Gowolves
    Participant

    I just need to know one thing. Will a men’s NCAA championship banner come down? I mean I have dinner at the Barn on the line. My brother doesn’t think a banner will come down. I say otherwise.

    #102801
    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    OK…

    so the new NOA comes out whenever….
    Holes has 90 days or whatever to respond…

    So what happens when they “self-report” some more BS before the deadline for their response to the new NOA??

    The merrygoround goes round and round, where it stops, nobody knows…

    The story that never ends…

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    #102802
    highstick
    Participant

    OK…

    so the new NOA comes out whenever….
    Holes has 90 days or whatever to respond…

    So what happens when they “self-report” some more BS before the deadline for their response to the new NOA??

    The merrygoround goes round and round, where it stops, nobody knows…

    The story that never ends…

    Robert Earl Keene is about to “end the song”…Those of you non-believers can put your towels over your head and kneel…Naysayers, for the sake of impatience, well,…go learn from Axel Rose!

    "Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!

    #102809
    Whiteshoes67
    Participant

    Before the UNC investigation began, but not long before it was reported, I dated a young lass who was employed by the UNC Athletics dept. Good lass. Not a UNC homer, which automatically put her on the outside looking in, even as an employee of the department. There were subtle hints of some of what’s surfaced. She was a critic then and now stands justified. This is just my way of giving a little shout out to her.

    #102821
    highstick
    Participant

    Picking a subject for a term paper at UnCheats:

    "Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!

    #102824
    SaccoV
    Participant

    The NCAA has two pending lawsuits (one of which had a motion to dismiss that was set aside just this past Friday), one of which the Asterisk and the NCAA are co-defendants. As I read the digital tea leaves, the NCAA is extremely unhappy at being named a co-defendant in that lawsuit, and their willingness to provide sound, proper punishment following established protocol will keep the Asterisk’s retained counsel from being able to countersue. The NCAA, as flawed as a Goodwill suit, will protect itself over the interests of UN*. Lastly, for those who think UN* is ‘too-big-to-fail’ because they move the needle in terms of TV ratings … take a read of this link, and tell me if the NCAA will survive if the Blues play in the postseason or not.

    #102825
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    Lastly, for those who think UN* is ‘too-big-to-fail’ because they move the needle in terms of TV ratings … take a read of this link, and tell me if the NCAA will survive if the Blues play in the postseason or not.

    For all intents/purposes, the NCAA doesn’t make a dime off of UNC. They get their money from the CBS contract over the NCAAT. As far as I know, that contract doesn’t include a clause that reduces the payment if UNC doesn’t play in March.

    #102826
    Gowolves
    Participant

    Lastly, for those who think UN* is ‘too-big-to-fail’ because they move the needle in terms of TV ratings … take a read of this link, and tell me if the NCAA will survive if the Blues play in the postseason or not.

    For all intents/purposes, the NCAA doesn’t make a dime off of UNC. They get their money from the CBS contract over the NCAAT. As far as I know, that contract doesn’t include a clause that reduces the payment if UNC doesn’t play in March.

    Most are aware of that. With that said there has to be some reason why the NCAA has dragged their collective feet in investigating and eventually punishing them. Whether it is protecting the assets they have or any future cash grabs. The NCAA in the end will always look out for itself. Most programs can bully them (NCAA) around but at some point they will retaliate or dig in for a fight. I see this as one of those times even if they got there reluctantly. The public has finally forced the NCAA to investigate this dumpster fire. UNC’s arrogance over the decades has brought them to the brink of serious penalties. Fellow NCAA programs and fans got tired of the “we do it the right way” mantra. So when the NCAA tried to sneak away in agreement with UNC’s comment, that other students were allowed in those classes as a means to diminish the athletic intent, it went sideways. When accrediting agencies as well as other programs got wind of this it became something it couldn’t ignore. I believe the NCAA didn’t want to look weak in the eyes of these agencies much more than the universities complaining. As others have said this is both a academic scandal and a athletic scandal. Started as a athletic scandal but eventually the inmates decided to bring the whole university into the mess by the admission that other students were enrolled. This could have been prevented. Again arrogance ruled the day. The university can survive and continue to accomplish their goals of educating young minds with a heavy penalty from the NCAA not so much if they had received a heavy penalty from one of the agencies. Some would argue what they received (penalty wise) from they accrediting agency was appropriate. I feel the penalty was sufficient. As much as most of us would have wanted a complete shutdown and “salt the earth” approach it would not have achieved desired results. The NCAA knows there will be a lot of “eyes” on this penalty. The quandary in issuing these penalties will be on several fronts. They have to appease a lot of people whether the NCAA admits it or not. Has to be tough to assuage the vocal media, other universities and most importantly the accrediting agencies. I think the accrediting agencies want the NCAA to take ownership of these issues like they should have from the beginning. The NCAA also risks making people feel sorry for UNC. I know I can’t fathom that feeling either but we all know UNC has powerful allies and will sue if they feel the penalties are too draconian. I am sure others believe this and might said as much but UNC’ is playing the long game. They have been for sometime. Think UNLV and JT. The level of these penalties will determine much longer this game plays out. My hope is the NCAA has some leverage (money, benefits, etc.) to force them to accept this punishment and put this to bed. I don’t have much confidence in that scenario.

    #102828
    TheCOWDOG
    Moderator

    When you get a look at the new NOA, you will see that the NCAA was doing everything BUT dragging feet.

    UNX is now on the clock.

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