Men’s Basketball Player Turnover Under Mark Gottfried

Mark Gottfried NCS Basketball503

As best as I can tell, this is the turnover under Gott. Just going to leave this here for reference.

11-12

Painter – transfer (family issues)
Harris – transfer
Raymond – transfer

12-13

Leslie – left early, never played in NBA
Brown – left early, NBA
Purvis – transfer
de Thaey – left to go wherever

13-14
Warren – left early, NBA
Lewis – transfer

14-15

Lacey – left early, never played in NBA
Washington – transfer
Wallace – walk on transfer

15-16

Barber – left early, NBA ?
Martin – transfer
Martin – transfer

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Mark Gottfried NCS Basketball

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  • 03/25/2016 at 2:16 PM #101820
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster
    Tau837 wrote:

    IMO he is now coaching/recruiting for his job, with one more year to accomplish something significant or else.

    Maybe. I think that there are too many unknowns to say for sure just how hot his seat will be if State misses the NCAAT next year.

    We know that Jed was quick to accept excuses instead of results. We know that Debbie eventually worked to remove both Friedgen and GW while she was at UMD. So DY is certainly no Jed, but we really don’t know the extent of her patience. Plus we don’t know her willingness to go through another BB coaching search so close to retirement.

    It’s dangerous to make predictions about how someone you don’t know will react. But based on the various interviews I’ve seen/read, I would be surprised if her retirement (assuming that she plans on retiring at the end of her current contract) would enter into her decision making process.

    So I wouldn’t be surprised to see her make a move if the 16/17 season was another dumpster fire and the recruiting not dramatically improve. I also wouldn’t be surprised if she gave Gott more time even if State doesn’t make the NCAAT next year (with the assumption that there’s bound to be some positive still left).

    Note that I don’t want to watch more dumpster fires or DY lead another basketball search. But it’s beginning to look like I’ll have to watch one or the other.

    03/25/2016 at 2:59 PM #101822
    MrPlywood
    Participant
    VaWolf82 wrote:

    We know that Debbie eventually worked to remove both Friedgen and GW while she was at UMD

    Did she hire either one?

    03/25/2016 at 3:52 PM #101823
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    According to dates in Wikipedia, DY hired the Fat Man.

    03/25/2016 at 4:06 PM #101825
    Thinkpack17
    Participant

    “Raymond, Painter, Harris, Lewis and Purvis were all on teams that made the NCAA tournament. Raymond and Lewis contributed lightly but the rest were starters.

    Harrow never played for Gott and left when Sid was fired. He had the stint at Kentucky, then went to Georgia Southern and had a nice run. Ended up in the tournament there playing 2 guard.

    TDT was right when he left — a recruiter and not a coach. People didn’t want to listen then, but I think people are starting to see the things that were obvious in year two…….”

    I don’t think any of this is right…

    03/25/2016 at 4:11 PM #101826
    Thinkpack17
    Participant

    I don’t think ODU went to the dance with Painter, Harrow played at Georgia State, Harris also didn’t take Auburn to the dance.

    03/25/2016 at 4:30 PM #101827
    ryebread
    Participant

    Think: Hmm… Let me see..
    – Painter: ODU went to the tournament in 2011. I had my years off there. Getting a little fuzzy. He started, averaged 13/8 and was definitely missed by NC State.
    – Harrow: Georgia State, correct. Mental lapse. I always get those two mixed up. He ended up playing 2 guard on the team with the coach who sat in the chair. I think he averaged around 21 a game.
    – Harris played at Providence and they went to the tournament. Auburn is his third stop. He’s been about an 11/5 kind of guy. If nothing else, he would have provided bench depth at the forward position and possibly some scoring. They were in the tournament both years he was at Providence.
    – Purvis: Starter at UConn. Stats about the same as they were at NC State, but definitely a legit ACC starter and would have been better than anyone we had at the wing this year.
    – Lewis: Felt like he was overrated from the start. The worst thing that ever happened to his college game was being a high school AA. The expectations don’t line up with his game and physical attributes. Given Cat/Lewis, Cat was the correct pick and I was vocal of that at the time as well. Hurt this year but was also on the bench when Butler was playing its best ball.
    – Raymond: I saw him in the MTSU / MSU upset game. He started 29 games last year and 8 this year.

    So, I missed on Painter and Harrow’s second transfer school. Apologies.

    The point remains that these guys weren’t all scrubs. We definitely could have used them.

    03/25/2016 at 4:33 PM #101828
    ryebread
    Participant

    Roo: There’s officially one spot open right now on the staff as Mox has moved to Director of Basketball Operations.

    There’s rumored to be another spot that might be coming open on staff. This is pure speculation but if you think about the last few offseasons something would make sense.

    No insider information on this one….. Not pretending to have it either….

    03/25/2016 at 5:40 PM #101836
    Thinkpack17
    Participant

    Rye…that’s fine. But ask yourself this…were any of them MORE than what they were while they were at State?
    -Painter I can’t fault at all, family comes first. But his season at ODU was not the fairy tale ending I’m sure he hoped for coming off a sky high season at State. Big man on campus, ACC big, swinging d*ck leading ODU to a bad season that saw their coaching staff flushed (I work with a lot of ODU alum that kept me in the know).
    -Harrow- Never was the savior he thought he was. Hell I took up for him on these very boards but like someone said, when he was given his moment he just wasn’t up for it. He got beat out of the Kentucky job by Julius Mays, the same kids who left NC State to make was for him. The irony…wait? Is that irony?
    -Harris- Here’s a guy that had a stage mom if I ever saw it. Do you remember his dad? Thinking that he was an NBA player like big brother? Saying that he “shut down” Thomas Robinson in the Sweet Sixteen game? Did he ever live up to daddy’s expectations? Is he going to the league?
    -Lewis- Another guy I rooted for. We hoped he was smart enough and crafty enough to overcome obvious deficiencies. No, no, no…he’s not too small. He’s a starting ACC point guard in a backup point guard’s body. I thought so, some of you did too, so did he. Early signs are that we were all wrong.
    -Purvis- A victim of the overhype. A “diaper dandy” that was supposed to be one and done. 4 years later and he’s not even a 5 and done.
    -Raymond- Honestly I completely forgot about this kid. Not crap talking him but I don’t have many plugs into Middle Tennessee State. But given the fact that he chose them it seems that he understood and accepted who he was.

    My point in all this….these guys ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE. These guys weren’t willing to play the role that our roster demanded of them and had to go explore other options. It happens, it’s a product of the generation. Blame entitlement, blame AAU ball, blame the money F it…Blame Obama.

    03/25/2016 at 5:42 PM #101838
    Thinkpack17
    Participant

    Rye…that’s fine. But ask yourself this…were any of them MORE than what they were while they were at State?
    -Painter I can’t fault at all, family comes first. But his season at ODU was not the fairy tale ending I’m sure he hoped for coming off a sky high season at State. Big man on campus, ACC big, swinging d*ck leading ODU to a bad season that saw their coaching staff flushed (I work with a lot of ODU alum that kept me in the know).
    -Harrow- Never was the savior he thought he was. Hell I took up for him on these very boards but like someone said, when he was given his moment he just wasn’t up for it. He got beat out of the Kentucky job by Julius Mays, the same kids who left NC State to make was for him. The irony…wait? Is that irony?

    03/25/2016 at 5:43 PM #101841
    Thinkpack17
    Participant

    -Lewis- Another guy I rooted for. We hoped he was smart enough and crafty enough to overcome obvious deficiencies. No, no, no…he’s not too small. He’s a starting ACC point guard in a backup point guard’s body. I thought so, some of you did too, so did he. Early signs are that we were all wrong.
    -Purvis- A victim of the overhype. A “diaper dandy” that was supposed to be one and done. 4 years later and he’s not even a 5 and done.

    03/25/2016 at 5:44 PM #101842
    Thinkpack17
    Participant

    -Raymond- Honestly I completely forgot about this kid. Not crap talking him but I don’t have many plugs into Middle Tennessee State. But given the fact that he chose them it seems that he understood and accepted who he was.

    03/25/2016 at 5:47 PM #101846
    Thinkpack17
    Participant

    -Harris- Do you remember his dad? He wanted him to be like Tobias so bad. Saying he “Shut down” Thomas Robinson in the Sweet 16 game. Did he live up to daddy’s expectations?

    03/25/2016 at 5:49 PM #101847
    Thinkpack17
    Participant

    My point in all this….these guys ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE. These guys weren’t willing to play the role that our roster demanded of them and had to go explore other options. It happens, it’s a product of the generation. Blame entitlement, blame AAU ball, blame the money, F it…Blame Obama.

    03/25/2016 at 5:49 PM #101848
    redisgood
    Participant
    Thinkpack17 wrote:

    -Raymond- Honestly I completely forgot about this kid. Not crap talking him but I don’t have many plugs into Middle Tennessee State. But given the fact that he chose them it seems that he understood and accepted who he was.

    Definitely no basketball illusions of grandeur. He’s going to finish up his engineering degree.

    03/25/2016 at 5:58 PM #101849
    Thinkpack17
    Participant

    ^Good for him. That’s solid. We saw him is a 8/9 man and he wanted to get on the court. He went somewhere he could play. Remember Josh Davis? A lot of people felt he was lucky to even get an offer from us. People were saying that Sid had lost the plot and was grasping at straws. Josh was a Raleigh guy and loved NC State but when it came down to it he wasn’t ready to be buried on the bench so he left. These kids want to play and there are good enough programs that they have the luxury of calling their shot. That’s just the way it is.

    03/25/2016 at 7:13 PM #101854
    Rick
    Keymaster

    Thinkpack,
    You make me question the great Gott’s recruiting.

    03/25/2016 at 7:26 PM #101855
    StateRed44
    Participant

    That’s fine let them go where they can play, but how do teams like FSU, Miami, Clemson, all seem to have guys they can develop into role players with deep benches. Why do we always get the fringe guys who think they are stars. We need to sign about 4 more Lennard Freeman types. Go after the 150 ranked guys. WTF do we have to lose, put them at 10-13 on the schollie chart. AT BARE minimum sign a dang 150+ guy per year!

    03/25/2016 at 7:45 PM #101857
    Thinkpack17
    Participant

    Rick- Maybe he’s putting to much emphasis on playing time during his living room visits? Too much sizzle, not enough steak?

    StateRed- FSU and Clemson are no better off than us. Clemson may be the only school that Roy owns more than he owns us. And the thing with Miami is their coach is much better than ours, no other way to say it.

    I don’t really have any good answers. Maybe this is our version of one and done? We can’t get the Parkers or Okafors or Ingrams to be our temporary mercenaries but maybe we can have a bunch of transfers be our semi-pro team. I’ll tell you this. Gott ain’t winning with a bunch of 150+ ranked guys.

    03/25/2016 at 7:57 PM #101859
    StateRed44
    Participant

    I’m not saying only recruit the 150+ guys but if you get 4 on your team at one time every couple of years should get a major contribution from a late bloomer. That’s guys right now we are even refusing to carry on our roster for some unknown reason. Clemson pretty much ONLY recruits those guys and they have a star guy on their team every year. Take that guy off their team every other year and give him to us and it could be a difference in a few wins and losses – tourney vs. no tourney.

    03/25/2016 at 8:00 PM #101860
    StateRed44
    Participant

    To put it another way, 5 years and really no diamonds in the rough to speak of. Freeman maybe but he’s really a marginal sub, wouldn’t see time on a legit power team. How is that possible? We live in North Carolina. Teams like Cincinatti and Xavier get our scrubs from the state.

    03/25/2016 at 8:08 PM #101861
    chriscgray
    Participant

    This is simple to understand. The Martin twins will not get nearly as much playing time next year and most likely in time will not start if they stay. I don’t see it as such a huge loss in talent, it is a problem with depth more than anything. They are not good enough to take us where NC State desires to go, so I say it only hurts us with depth. Abu is smart to test the NBA, but would be dumb to actually commit to the draft. Abu has a lot of development to go, one more year could improve his prospects drastically. We however have to get another skilled big man, and we need one ASAP. We need a better inside game offensively as Anya, Freeman, and Kirk lack those skills and really only provide rebounding and defense.

    03/25/2016 at 8:42 PM #101862
    Rick
    Keymaster

    I am not sure I would count on frenchie. Stress fractures have ruined many big men’s career. I hope not as I like the kid

    Each early departure has its own story and it may make sense looked individually. But when you have 14 in five years, something else is going on.

    03/25/2016 at 8:48 PM #101864
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    With the end result being that we are paper-thin AND inexperienced every single year. That’s the objective piece. Subjectively, it sure looks like nearly everyone we bring into the program gets out as soon as they can, doesn’t it? Nobody “sticks it out” when things gets the least bit tough. WAY more than the general trend elsewhere.

    03/25/2016 at 9:13 PM #101867
    Thinkpack17
    Participant

    I don’t think we are inexperienced every year. I mean the guys we put out may not have the most NC STATE experience but we aren’t putting out freshmen like Duke and UK. Lacey and Turner last year played a ton of games. Same with the big 4 and AJ, those were old teams. The only year I’d say we were inexperienced was TJ’s ACC POY year.

    03/26/2016 at 2:16 AM #101883
    tractor57
    Participant

    I’m concerned we seem to have no “plan B” as opposed to being concerned about transfer and leaving for the pros. Those happen. Recruiting quality players is hard no doubt and no quality player wants to sit on the bench. Is it Gott’s fault that the landscape has changed? Maybe he needs to adapt a bit or maybe not. To me next year will be the story. If he works through this fine, if not maybe time to look elsewhere.

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