One More Week

Well that was a pretty miserable weekend of basketball. The only close game was Sunday’s Pitt/WF game with the Panthers falling to the Winston-Salem Curse as well. I wonder if there is some shaman we could pay to transfer that curse to them permanently?

Here is the conference summary table with the RPI rankings coming from CBS after Saturday’s games.

Miami is just barely in the bubble zone and they need to pull off a dramatic turn-around if they are going to make it into the NCAAT. Clemson has fallen out of sight low on our trend graphs and hope is fading fast. The odds don’t look good for either team right now.

Let’s see if the Dance Card can shed some light on Pitt and State:

I’m not sure if the “Chance of Bid” column adds any value to our discussion or not. But it’s interesting to see how far State is above the burst line and how far they are within the 100% group. But I’ve never paid any attention to this column before so I’m not going to draw any conclusions today. I just thought that State’s position was surprising after that disaster on Saturday.

 

Pittsburgh

Before today’s results, I’ve been a little surprised that Pitt isn’t doing any better on the Dance Card calcs or with the Bracketologists. Last year this time, they had a miserable OOC schedule and their only Top-50 win was against a bubble team…but they were in every bracket and comfortably in on the Dance Card. This year they have a decent OOC schedule and several really good wins but by the time Monday’s results are in, they won’t be in on anyone’s bracket.

I figure that Pitt will be in pretty good shape if they finish the season 2-0 against FSU and Miami. But here’s ESPN’s view on Pitt before their debacle at Wake:

Pittsburgh [19-10 (8-7), RPI: 37, SOS: 32] Kansas State’s win over Kansas Monday didn’t just lead to an overly exuberant court storm and some film study for the campus police. It also got the Wildcats back inside the RPI top 100. That’s especially good news for Pittsburgh. Despite the Panthers’ decent RPI and schedule numbers, they are in desperate need of more top-100 victories, and with a schedule that includes just one in their last three games (March 4 versus Miami), it’s handy that a team Pitt beat in late November could lend a hand three months later. The ACC tournament looks like the best chance for the Panthers. They may not have to win the thing, but they’ll probably have to knock at least one good team off before they go home.

That seems a little harsh to me. Their  current resume is on par with a number of our Herbble examples not to mention last year’s surprise bid for State. Oh well, let’s see if Jamie Dixon can get his team straightened out for their last two games against the ACC’s two Florida teams.

 

STATE

If State wins their last two games, they won’t need anything in the ACCT. Their distance from the Burst Line in the Dance Card makes it tempting to say that 1-1 would be good enough….but I just don’t know how fast the Dance Card rankings can change. If it’s as volatile as the RPI Rankings, then we’re back to needing to go 2-0 to feel comfortable.

Note that there is no way to establish the minimum requirements since that will be determined by how the other bubble teams perform the rest of the way. I would like State’s case to be clear-cut next week for the pre-ACCT bubble review, but I’m not holding my breath.

Speaking of volatile rankings, note that Pitt dropped 5 RPI spots just by not playing on Saturday:

Syracuse has already done better over the last couple of weeks than I expected.    They seem to have really taken the opportunity to play spoiler to heart.

Here are the current conference standings including Sunday night’s result:

Over the last month of the season (as well as the season as a whole), Duke had a demonstrably stronger schedule than ND. So I’m really surprised that Duke not only caught ND, but now has a one-game lead over ND for second. With L’ville finishing the season against UVA and ND, the 4-5 spots could easily come down to a coin flip in G’boro.

The last week of the regular season has more games of interest than last week’s. I’ve color coded the ones that I thought would have some level of general interest along with State’s games:

Looking at the schedule, I just had a bizarre thought…if Clemson goes 2-0 this week, then we’ll another team that will deserve a closer look next week. 😉

 

Post Script

The “featured image” at the beginning of the entry kicked my butt last year because WordPress insisted on cropping it no matter how small I resized it. Through a process of elimination, I figured out how to get it to fit. Now I just have to figure out what Photoshop means by “Canvas Size”.

About VaWolf82

Engineer living in Central Va. and senior curmudgeon amongst SFN authors One wife, two kids, one dog, four vehicles on insurance, and four phones on cell plan...looking forward to empty nest status. Graduated 1982

14-15 Basketball ACC College Basketball Stat of the Day

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Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 49 total)
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  • #76763
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    Well that was a pretty miserable weekend of basketball. The only close game was Sunday’s Pitt/WF game with the Panthers falling to the Winston-Salem Curse…
    [See the full post at: One More Week]

    #76767
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    I just thought that State’s position [Dance Card] was surprising after that disaster on Saturday.”

    Agree. I’m surprised to see that ‘100%’ there. State needs at least 1 of the next 2 to remain viable 🙁

    ***

    Let’s hope we make the point moot by beating Clemson Tuesday, but if Clemson do go 2-0 the only way I still see them truly getting at-large consideration is by them getting to the ACC finals.

    It’s a pretty wild resume, but ultimately I think 4 RPI 100+ and 1 RPI 200+ loses spell doom barring something like the scenario above. There’s only one top 25 RPI win, and 3 total top 50 wins – one of which may not even make the tournament (Pitt). State could work their way back into the top 50, but that gets a lot more difficult if State loses to Clemson Tuesday night (irony). I think they’re toast, and I hope we get some revenge Tuesday night and remove all hope for them 🙂

    #76770
    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    The Tigers don’t have a chance Tuesday night… relax…

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    #76772
    hellfishtat
    Participant

    At 42, and a life-long State Fan, I really thought I’d be use to what happened Saturday afternoon. I am not.

    #76777
    Wulfpack
    Participant

    The Tigers don’t have a chance Tuesday night… relax…

    I’ve heard that one before…

    #76778
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    The season is on the line Tuesday night. No pressure or anything…

    #76782
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    Palm’s Bubble Update on State and Pitt

    State (On the fence)

    Wolfpack fans have been getting on me for not taking this team off the bubble. Know why they can’t get off the bubble? They were 2-2 on the road in February. They beat Louisville and UNC and lost at Wake Forest and Boston College. You never know what you’re going to get from NC State. At 17-12, they aren’t out of the woods yet. Schedule — at Clemson, Syracuse

    Pitt (work to do)

    Pitt has good wins over North Carolina and Notre Dame, but they still don’t have a good record against better opposition. Now, the Panthers have added a bad loss at Wake Forest to go with losses to Hawaii and Virginia Tech. They really need a quality win away from home, but that will have to come in the conference tournament. Schedule — Miami, at Florida St

    #76783
    pakfanistan
    Participant

    The Tigers don’t have a chance Tuesday night… relax…

    That’s what I thought about Boston College ;__;

    #76785
    ryebread
    Participant

    If I’ve learned one thing from Gott’s team, it is to never take anything for granted. We can beat anyone, but we can (and will) lose to anyone.

    And let’s not trot out the BS V comparisons as excuses. V’s teams might have a WTF game, but I personally don’t remember them ever choking and simultaneously laying an egg like what we saw this past weekend. About the only way to play our way out of a bid was to take a bad loss, and we did it in convincing fashion.

    Watch us lose to Clemson and then beat Syracuse. This is a frustrating program.

    #76788
    BassPacker
    Participant

    SFN are the ones in a bubble if think Pack can go 1-1 and make Dance….we lose to Clemson and we are NIT bound. No if, ands or buts about it. Only other chance is a run in the ACC tournament. Clemson is as “must win” as Pack has seen in many seasons. This will be a defining game for Gotts resume.

    #76789
    Trout
    Participant

    Interesting that Clemson’s Senior Day was Saturday against GT, not our game tomorrow night.

    The ONLY saving grace for the BC loss is that it put us at a 10 right now. It could end up costing us a NCAA bid, which would obviously be bad, but IMO, a 10 is much better than a 9 or 8. With Gonzaga no longer a #1 seed option, and with Duke and UVA most likely being #1 seeds, with us at a 9 or 8 we would either get Kentucky or Villanova/Kansas in a possible 2nd round game. I’d take my chances with Nova, but I’d rather be a 10 seed and stay away from that.

    The other side is that BC loss prevented us from getting a 7 (unless we make the ACCT finals). But honestly, 7/10, not much difference.

    Indiana (7) vs NC State (10) seems a popular matchup right now.

    I agree with SFN, go 1-1 and I think we are probably in. A L @Clemson isn’t a bad loss (like BC), but would mean it all comes down to the Syracuse game. A W at Clemson is a road win against a Top 100 RPI team.

    #76790
    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Has a major program made the dance two games under .500 in conference play? Would that not be rare?

    #76791
    Trout
    Participant

    ^It happens when a conference is really strong.

    Some 7-9 teams from the ACC of old have made it. V’s comment was always “7-7, go to heaven” (NCAAT), back when we played 14 ACC games.

    #76792
    Trout
    Participant
    #76793
    WolfWiz11
    Participant

    The Tigers don’t have a chance Tuesday night… relax…

    If there’s a way to lose, we’ll find it.

    #76794
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    Two weeks ago, we had an interesting discussion about the advantages/disadvantages of using the RPI to pick and seed the field. This discussion also included the “benefits” of using margin of victory in picking which bubble teams make the NCAAT. Here’s something that ESPN put up Friday about evaluating BYU (before their win at Gonzaga).

    In this case, the RPI’s blind spot — its ignorance of the final score — is actually kind of a strength. Yes, the Cougars’ eight losses have all come by eight points or fewer. Yes, two of their notable nonconference defeats went to overtime. But BYU still lost those games. They lost to San Diego and Pepperdine (twice). While most teams in this position could counteract the argument with at least one example of a quality win, the Cougars’ best three victories have all come at home — over Stanford, UMass and Saint Mary’s. There is maybe one tournament team in that mix, and that team (Stanford) is very much on the bubble.

    The RPI is outdated, imprecise, too quietly impactful on the selection process, you name it. We tolerate it as a function of the Bubble Watch’s purpose; we rarely see its value. But in extreme situations, its inherent logic can hold true. At some point, you’ve got to beat somebody.

    http://espn.go.com/ncb/bubblewatch

    The URL makes me think that this will get over-written soon. Just in case that it does, I saved the entire (short) article.

    #76797
    JasonP
    Participant

    We’ll be lucky to make the NCAA tourney, and even luckier if we actually win a game in it, no matter the seed. Doesn’t matter 8, 9, 10, whatever seed.

    A small part of me hopes we get an 8/9 game in Kentucky’s bracket, and then somehow get lucky enough to play Calipari’s mercenaries. Not that I think we’d win, but I’d just like our team to have a chance to play the best team in the nation. Maybe they’d learn a thing or two.

    #76798
    Trout
    Participant

    Lunardi now has us as a #10 Seed playing #7 Ohio State with winner getting Arizona in Portland.

    Last Four Byes
    Oregon
    Indiana
    NC State
    Temple

    Last Four In
    Cincinnati
    Colorado State
    Purdue
    BYU

    First Four Out
    Davidson
    UCLA
    Illinois
    Pittsburgh

    #76802
    Wufpacker
    Participant

    Maybe it’s my negative side talking, but I really dislike how avoiding the play-in games is now considered a bye/2nd round.

    The youth league mentality run amok, IMHO.

    #76803
    choppack1
    Participant

    I think we need to win at least 2 of next 3.

    Our remaining 2 regular season games will both qualify as quality wins and neither (on paper) qualifies as a wtf loss.

    If we go 1-1 we may need one more quality win. Like vawolf said, its not some random number we’re playing against its anyone who can’t afford to lose their next three games and anyone who can’t go to the tourney without winning theirs.

    #76804
    JohnGalt78
    Participant

    I’m fearing another egg is about to be laid down in Klempson. We don’t make anything easy so it just seems to perfect an opportunity to not let the Tigers kick our asses so we can turn around an face another orange team in what will be their final game together. This is what we do.

    #76805
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    The “bye/2nd round” nomenclature actually dies after this season IIRC. plus For the rarest of rarities, common sense makes a COMEBACK. I doubt they will call it the “play-in” round, probably “preliminary” or something like that. But it will always be play-in to me, and shit, there’s no shame in that. You say you deserve a bid, go prove it in Dayton.

    Win next 2, 90% in.

    Win next 3 (ie, 1 in ACCT), 100% in.

    Win 1 of next 2, plus 1 in ACCT, 50/50 (depends on who we play/beat).

    Win 1 of next 2, plus 2 in ACCT, 100% in.

    All of this would have been SO FUCKING SIMPLE had we just not shat all over the court in Boston. But that’s what we do in Boston, in all sports.

    #76806
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    And forget about Nova/Kansas/AZ. If we are on the 8/9 line, we will get Kentucky. Period, full stop.

    #76808
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    Selection sheets are updated: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/MBB_RPI/MBBTeam.pdf

    You can bookmark the page – it’s automatically updated. State is page 53. Strong, but dicey. Compared to other bubble teams, State has a ton of things going for it – but there are a lot of losses. The only ‘silver lining’ from the BC game is that it was only the 2nd rpi 100+ loss. Not affordable, but on par or better as compared to other bubble teams. That said, State’s overall schedule is incredibly strong.

    Gotta keep winning. 14 losses is the absolute max to remain viable in any way. Please note that I said ‘viable’, not ‘lock’. The Espn Bubble Watch – by far the best ‘Watch’ page – should be updated soon. They will take State to task, as they should.

    Maybe it’s my negative side talking, but I really dislike how avoiding the play-in games is now considered a bye/2nd round.

    The youth league mentality run amok, IMHO.

    ^Haha yeah … I think that was the NCAA’s way of attempting to ‘appease’ 16-seed auto-qualifiers who get relegated to the ‘First Four’. It’s pretty weak. “You’re in the tournament!!”. I don’t have a problem w/ expanding the field (no more than 68, please!), but it is kind of a slap to the face of those low major auto-qualifiers. I’m sure they and the bubble teams wouldn’t have a problem with it being called what it is: play-in round. The round of 64 is still the ‘first round’ to me.

    #76809
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    Win next 2, 90% in.

    Win next 3 (ie, 1 in ACCT), 100% in.

    Win 1 of next 2, plus 1 in ACCT, 50/50 (depends on who we play/beat).

    Win 1 of next 2, plus 2 in ACCT, 100% in.

    All of this would have been SO FUCKING SIMPLE had we just not shat all over the court in Boston. But that’s what we do in Boston, in all sports.

    ^Yes, yes, yes.

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