Ugggg

14-15 Basketball71

With the incredibly positive recruiting weekend that Dave Doeren produced — click here for more — a signature win over Notre Dame last night would’ve put the point on a momentous weekend. But, instead of being in a position to play for a solid NCAA Tournament seed, the Wolfpack now has significant pressure to deliver some road wins in the second half of our ACC schedule.

Not only did we back ourselves into a corner, we did it with wondrous style!

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14-15 Basketball

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  • 01/26/2015 at 12:34 PM #71573
    2005
    Participant

    Pump the brakes!! Most of these comments are the reason the Wolfpack faithful has a bad reputation. This is a young team playing as such. Granted, Lacy is a Junior but this is his first year in the system. Unlike previous Wolfpack teams, this squad has won the ACC games they should have won and been very competitive in games they should have lost. This team has shown more promise than any Wolfpack team in a decade!

    As far as Gott, he is as good an in-game coach as there is in the business. And it goes without saying that he is a heck of a recruiter. The pieces are in place and the stars are starting to align – just be patient people!!!

    01/26/2015 at 12:42 PM #71574
    Rick
    Keymaster
    2005 wrote:

    Pump the brakes!! Most of these comments are the reason the Wolfpack faithful has a bad reputation. This is a young team playing as such. Granted, Lacy is a Junior but this is his first year in the system. Unlike previous Wolfpack teams, this squad has won the ACC games they should have won and been very competitive in games they should have lost. This team has shown more promise than any Wolfpack team in a decade!

    As far as Gott, he is as good an in-game coach as there is in the business. And it goes without saying that he is a heck of a recruiter. The pieces are in place and the stars are starting to align – just be patient people!!!

    Where so I start with all the errors in your post
    1) This is the second year in the system. If the system is so hard that a 4th year junior cannot pick up on it in a year and a half then the system is bad.
    2) We are starting a 4th year junior, 5th year senior and a soph McD AA in the back court. That is about as much “experience” as you can ever hope to get.
    3) More promise than any team in a decade? Including the one that was ranked top ten in the preseason? Okkkkkaaaay
    4) His recruiting is dropping like a rock. He has no recruits committed for next year and had top 75 players his last recruiting class.
    5) WTNY LOL. Kind of funny given his results are trnending the opposite way but if NCSU fans do nothing else, they will point to next year

    01/26/2015 at 12:49 PM #71575
    PapaJohn
    Participant

    ^ “Where so I start with all the errors in your post” – LOL

    Careful 2005, positive comments are outliers in this neighborhood. But you aren’t alone.

    01/26/2015 at 12:52 PM #71576
    pakfanistan
    Participant
    Rick wrote:

    4) His recruiting is dropping like a rock. He has no recruits committed for next year and had top 75 players his last recruiting class.

    The rest of that, eh, but this isn’t true.

    Lacey was effectively part of this years class, and was highly rated coming out of HS, and is quite good.

    Abu was consensus top 50, and top 10 player at his position.

    The twins weren’t as highly rated, but it looks suspiciously like they were underrated to me.

    Next years class will have Terry Henderson, who should be an upgrade from Turner, defensively if nothing else.

    ’15 just isn’t a high priority class for us. We could use a guard, but there’s only space for a really good one. We’re still on Malik Newman’s list (although I doubt we get him) and have offered Traci Carter, who should be moving up the rankings.

    Long story short, recruiting is fine at the moment.

    01/26/2015 at 12:59 PM #71579
    PackFamily
    Participant

    Lets all face it….we are a football school.

    Poor Doeren… he may not know it, but expectations for his program went even higher after last night.

    01/26/2015 at 1:04 PM #71581
    Rick
    Keymaster
    pakfanistan wrote:
    Rick wrote:

    4) His recruiting is dropping like a rock. He has no recruits committed for next year and had top 75 players his last recruiting class.

    The rest of that, eh, but this isn’t true.

    Lacey was effectively part of this years class, and was highly rated coming out of HS, and is quite good.

    Abu was consensus top 50, and top 10 player at his position.

    The twins weren’t as highly rated, but it looks suspiciously like they were underrated to me.

    Next years class will have Terry Henderson, who should be an upgrade from Turner, defensively if nothing else.

    ’15 just isn’t a high priority class for us. We could use a guard, but there’s only space for a really good one. We’re still on Malik Newman’s list (although I doubt we get him) and have offered Traci Carter, who should be moving up the rankings.

    Long story short, recruiting is fine at the moment.

    I respectfully disagree.
    If you are going to talk about the Martins being uner rated I would say you Cat and Abu were over rated.

    01/26/2015 at 1:25 PM #71587
    Timbo
    Participant

    OK who is it that believes potential recruits never scout schools for the most playing time that’s why Kentucky, Duke, and Carolina always have good classes, those great players leave early, then they get great players in positions that will yield the most playing time. they also retain quality players’, what I call second tier recruits. So yeah recruiting may be off a little for next year. but where you going to play if you are a top recruit, the core of this class is not going to leave.

    Also this team is well balanced, tough year with the sixth toughest schedule in the country and you believe that the coach sucks and the players have no heart.

    What sorry fans yaw are, that was a good team they played last night and yes they almost won, You can believe that we never get looked over when we are playing these so called elite basketball programs. keep believing your team is second class and hopefully that self fulfilling prophesy will never come true. but this team will win more games than they loose and will probably knock off another number 2 team before its over.

    I for one “BELIEVE”

    01/26/2015 at 2:21 PM #71591
    MrPlywood
    Participant
    JeremyH wrote:

    In my opinion, each time we score off ball movement, we have had a successful possession. We get away from this too easy.

    This. I don’t mind jump shots provided that the ball has been moved around, because IMO that means their are more O rebound opportunities because the D cannot just sit back around the lane.

    Re: Abu’s foul situation, #’s 4 and 5 were awful calls. Maybe that’s what you’re saying…

    01/26/2015 at 2:42 PM #71592
    Rick
    Keymaster
    Timbo wrote:

    Also this team is well balanced, tough year with the sixth toughest schedule in the country and you believe that the coach sucks and the players have no heart.

    I for one “BELIEVE”

    Since you seemed to respond to my post I would apprecite you pointing to where I stated this.

    And please stop with the “sorry fans” crap. It will not be tolerated on this site.

    Thank you,

    01/26/2015 at 3:18 PM #71595
    tractor57
    Participant

    Room for many opinions. My thought is overall this year’s team is more talented. Not to say that individual players from earlier teams were not more talented. As an example obviously there is no on one this year’s team that is an equal head to head with TJ Warren. Does that mean a slide in recruiting or a change is recruiting focus away from the one and done type? Not sure I have that answer. Things I like in this years team revolve around effort and little moping if not getting PT. Maybe there is a culture shift happening. As much as I liked Lewis he did tend to object to a loss of court minutes, more of that can be said for some other former players. It seems this bunch is being conditioned to compete for those minutes. I’m quite pleased with Abu as well as Cody and Caleb. I see progress with Anya and Washington. Maybe a bit less with Freeman.

    At the beginning of the season I thought this team would show its best play toward the end of the season and so far I think I am seeing that trend.

    I’m also reminded that Sloan and Valvano had transfers on a regular basis. That alone does not portend doom and gloom for me. I would not be surprised to see some transfers out and in as that seems to be the current state of college basketball.

    Was I disappointed with the losses? Yes I was and will always be so. Even with that I do see this team growing – it has been an exciting ride.

    01/26/2015 at 3:57 PM #71598
    2005
    Participant

    I think you meant… So, Where should I start..
    1)This is the first year Lacy has been on the court. Practicing in the system can’t provide the same experience as game action. Furthermore, I think he has it figure out – note that he is 6th leading scorer in the ACC.
    2) 4th year Jr – refer to bullet point #1. 5th year Sr. – 2nd year player for the Pack. Sophomore McDonald’s AA who is struggling and did NOT start yesterday.
    3)Preseason rankings mean absolutely nothing. They are simply a reflection of how the previous year ended. Nobody expected that team to live up to the hype. CJ Leslie never capitalized on his talent and Lorenzo Brown got injured. We are much more balanced and don’t have the prima donna egos holding us back.
    4)Recruiting is fine. We have a 8 or 9 scholarship players returning next year.
    5)Not sure how things are trending the wrong direction…. We have the same amount of wins (within 1 game) this year as we’ve had in the previous years. Considering that this is by far the most difficult schedule that we have played, I think we are in decent shape.

    01/26/2015 at 4:14 PM #71600
    Pack23
    Participant

    Anyone have any solid info on Cat’s playing time yesterday? Thought that he had some solid minutes when he did get in, but could tell that he was tentative at times on the offensive end. Was also kind of interesting how the bulk of his playing time came at the end of the 2nd half.

    01/26/2015 at 4:24 PM #71601
    Packzingo
    Participant

    Some really interesting views this year and I admit, I’ve been out of touch with things on the site. So, going another direction and seeking opinions (which I know I’ll get…lol),

    Cat was beat up some last year for being out of control, his speed is obviously an asset and liability ….. and then it seems this year he is trying to temper his aggressiveness which makes him look as if he doesn’t know what to do ….. except a lot of dribbling. Gott puts Lacy running the point and Lacy’s offense seems to suffer. I know that Cat has his issues but aren’t we better offensively as a team with Cat at Point? Lacy had 5 TO’s Sunday. And it appears that Cat is much better defensively than Lacy or Turner so I don’t understand? He broke all of AI’s records so he can obviously score, is it a head issue?

    As earlier mentioned, why is it that KW sits so much, ex: ND second half? His point production, hustle and rebounding (sometimes) have really been an
    added lift. Don’t get it?

    Playing time is going to be difficult for everyone. Is Gott attempting to play all the young guys more to avoid transfers?

    Also, not going to throw stones at the coaches, the head coach can’t keep up with everything, so why aren’t the assistants helping with the substitutions in cases like the final couple of minutes in the ND game, Ex: defense for offense and vise/versa? OR are they and thats the problem?
    A couple were unemployed when Gott brought them in.

    01/26/2015 at 4:39 PM #71602
    WolfWiz11
    Participant

    And please stop with the “sorry fans” crap. It will not be tolerated on this site.

    Thank you. Calling people “sorry fans” is such a cheap shot. The only thing most people on this site are guilty of is caring too much about this school/team that we have to call it how we see it. Doesn’t mean we don’t believe in the team/coach. Don’t get me wrong; there are some who do get a bit nasty, but I think they are few and far in between. After a demoralizing loss like last night, right on the heels of a close one in Miami and the squeaker against the Holes, fans are a bit frustrated. And it’s exactly because we KNOW what this team is capable of.

    01/26/2015 at 5:19 PM #71608
    JeremyH
    Participant

    Yes Plywood, they are silly and/or bad call fouls, he’s becoming a magnet for it, like Sir Richard.

    Regarding Cat, I have noticed people really dog-piling (incidental pun) on Cat, and so with him coming off the bench last night, it was almost like Gott was listening or forming a similar opinion, or needed to just shake things up. Now we saw what they experiment looked like.

    Regarding Washington’s PT in the second half, you know we have a lot of forwards, sometimes we don’t always stick with the hot hand.

    01/26/2015 at 5:43 PM #71610
    Packzingo
    Participant

    LOL……
    yes, we do have a lot of forwards and I wish we could find a hot hand!

    01/26/2015 at 6:17 PM #71611
    wufpup76
    Keymaster
    tractor57 wrote:

    My thought is overall this year’s team is more talented

    ^Agreed. This is an NCAA Tournament worthy team. If they don’t make it, shit happens to all teams – but that’s a strike in my view.

    Packzingo wrote:

    Cat was beat up some last year for being out of control

    ^Agree that he has gone too far the other way this season, to the detriment of himself and the team offense. My opinion – I truly see no head / attitude issues w/ Cat. I’ve said before that I feel he goes out of his way to be an unselfish team player, but for a scoring point guard it can be really difficult to find that happy medium. From my worthless armchair view, I think the staff is trying to help him find that medium and also struggling with his playing time due to the at times stagnant offense. I completely agree w/ BJD’s assessment from last night that Cat should have come in much sooner in the second half.

    I thought Cody did a great job on Grant for a large part of the first half, but started to get abused a bit early in the 2nd half. Cat came in and helped stem the tide and almost led us to victory down the stretch. Cody deserves minutes, of course – but I feel Cat does as well. My feeling is that Cat’s defensive abilities warrant him being on the floor for 30+ minutes a game. I’m not at practice and I don’t know like the staff does, but my tentative gripe with the staff would be that they haven’t found a way to fully exploit Barber’s offensive talents either as point or off the ball. He doesn’t have to be the point on the offensive end. Run him off screens, let him penetrate and create havoc – I think this would be a great counter to running Turner off screens all the time. Make the defense pick their poison, not wait for a Lacey iso or a Turner 22-footer *every* time down the court.

    WolfWiz11 wrote:

    Thank you. Calling people “sorry fans” is such a cheap shot. The only thing most people on this site are guilty of is caring too much about this school/team that we have to call it how we see it. Doesn’t mean we don’t believe in the team/coach. Don’t get me wrong; there are some who do get a bit nasty, but I think they are few and far in between. After a demoralizing loss like last night, right on the heels of a close one in Miami and the squeaker against the Holes, fans are a bit frustrated. And it’s exactly because we KNOW what this team is capable of.

    ^Hear, hear. Arguing over positivity vs. negativity is human nature, and we all have different views and ways of expressing ourselves. One thing the overwhelming majority of visitors to this site have in common is a passionate care for N.C. State athletics. We know what this program is capable of – and to WolfWiz’s point we have an idea of what this season’s team may be capable of – so some (a lot) of frustration is natural. If you’re positive about the direction of the program – that’s great and it truly is refreshing to see that type of opinion. If you’re negative about the direction, well that’s ok too.

    It’s easy for any of us to fall into a “one side or the other” type trap, but I’ve always found a great thing about SFN is that you can call it like you see it here and that doesn’t limit you to being overtly positive or overtly critical. We can each argue all day long about perceived faulty conclusions – and hey, that’s the interwebz. Have fun. At the end of the day though, it’s gonna play out the way it plays out. That’s all. Carry on 🙂

    01/26/2015 at 7:07 PM #71612
    Zaphod
    Participant

    Sorry, Abu’s 5th foul was legit. He put his hand on the defender and pushed off. It might not have been a very hard push, but he DID push. The ND defender did a pretty good job of selling it, but it was a push. A ref is going to call pushing most every time he sees someone put a hand on the defender. He needs to be taught to keep hands off…use your butt.

    01/26/2015 at 7:30 PM #71614
    Alpha Wolf
    Keymaster

    I generally try to stay off of NC State boards following a close loss, because the negativity is more pessimistic than a financial analyst’s assessment of the Greek economy.

    Anthony “Cat” Barber: purrrthetic

    Right, the only guy that could defend Darien Grant was pathetic. Mmmkay.

    The way I see it, a young team made young team mistakes at just the wrong time. That can be coached out of them. But…this is a team that plays pretty good defense most of the time. This is a team that has not collapsed after losing perhaps the best NC State player since Julius Hodge at the end of last year. And this is a team that no one is eager to face, save for perhaps Kentucky (which is an NBA team playing college basketball.)

    Yeah, I am disappointed. No, I was not surprised. But hell yeah, I think that these guys have a bright future.

    01/26/2015 at 7:32 PM #71615
    TheCOWDOG
    Moderator

    Wouldn’t have mattered anyway, really, ’cause lost the handle before the whistle blew.

    They’ll all get their hands to work eventually. Howell did. Burl did…

    Adreneline is a funny drug.
    Developing a sense of where you are takes time for alotta peeps.

    01/26/2015 at 7:46 PM #71616
    TheCOWDOG
    Moderator

    Good take Alpha. Ya slipped one in before me.

    I have trouble working previous post quotes.

    Takes up to much space, and time on an Android.

    01/26/2015 at 7:50 PM #71617
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    I tried to post this earlier in the morning, but it didn’t work. I a taking a wolven sabbatical for the work week, so I don’t end up in Holly Hill or like that dude at the University of Texas clock tower. Last night just killed my soul, the last straw of the cumulative weight of some really sucky sporting results in my little world.

    See you peeps this weekend. For the love of God, BE GOOD!

    01/26/2015 at 7:56 PM #71618
    JeremyH
    Participant

    “Sorry, Abu’s 5th foul was legit. He put his hand on the defender and pushed off. It might not have been a very hard push, but he DID push. The ND defender did a pretty good job of selling it, but it was a push. A ref is going to call pushing most every time he sees someone put a hand on the defender. He needs to be taught to keep hands off…use your butt.”

    That’s probably what makes this one so frustrating. In two consecutive games, in potentially game winning possessions, we are called for an offensive foul. And let’s not forget the obscure “person that runs out of bounds cannot touch the ball next” rule game. That unspoken rule of swallowing the whistle as not to decide the outcome of the game, that does not apply to us, and is reversed. Use your butt indeed, put that on a t-shirt and sell it.

    01/26/2015 at 7:57 PM #71619
    mak4dpak
    Participant

    Officiating, fouls? None of this matters to the outcome of the game, if we just show up, in the 2nd half on offense. 39% shooting don’t cut it. And as Lacey/Turner go, so goes the team. Win the next 3, then show up for 2 halves against UVA, and maybe we are back on track.

    01/26/2015 at 8:16 PM #71620
    choppack1
    Participant

    Mak4 – i’d argue that it does especially when a blown call that cannot be disputed ends up awarding a team an extra foul shot that could be the difference in the game. Our last 2 games our opponents have made more foul shots than we’ve attempted and I believe the game is being called differently for us than it is for them.

    When we lost to Carolina I thought we deserved to lose…not so last night. I had to do my monk chants.

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