State Wins ACC Opener as ACC officials call 51 fouls

14-15 Basketball64

State shook off the road loss at Purdue and — after six early turnovers tonight — used a solid effort to defeat Wake Forest at home by a score of 78-65. For those of you keeping count in Las Vegas, the Wolfpack entered the game as a 9.5 point favorite.

State improves to 7-1 (1-0) and will be atop the ACC for at least the next month after the (very) early season league win.

Ralston Turner led State with 21 points; Lacey had 15 and Barber 14. Anya had 5 blocks. State shot 26-47 (55.3%) from the floor, but the struggles at the free throw line continued (22-33, 66.7%)

Box Score (ESPN)

After this win, the Wolfpack will be sitting somewhere around #40 in the RPI. Not a bad spot with some RPI helpers on the schedule in the coming month.

The great news is that because State won we can all point out just how awful the officiating was without complaining about losing. For those keeping score, some guy named Bill Covington was flanked by ACC ‘stalwarts’, JAMIE Luckie and Brian Dorsey. You know, the same Brian Dorsey who was on the floor the day that the ACC refs rammed NC State in the 2012 ACC Tournament that and that reportedly told Coach Gottfriend…click here.

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14-15 Basketball

Home › Forums › State Wins ACC Opener

Viewing 15 posts - 51 through 65 (of 65 total)
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  • 12/09/2014 at 12:07 PM #64904
    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    ^^ You know Rick… SFN is just like the TV room at the old SigEp house… we GOTT about 44 guys and 2 ladies that hang here and post regularly… We’re all brothers and sisters… and sometimes brothers and sisters just gonna act like “brothers and sisters”… sometimes act… It also means some guys like some guys better and other guys like some other guys better…

    In the end… that is fundamentally what makes SFN the best website of it’s type at any school… and I don’t think you disagree with that…

    You also know… that traffic is way down here and yes, it was a lot more fun for everybody, when SFN was busy… We have a good chance at a great basketball season and that means we gonna have lots of visitors here in the SFN TV room…

    Your a MOD, I’m not… but I’m pretty certain that you hold yourself and your comments to a higher standard than that which may apply to cluelesstrollswithnumbersthatarenottheirsintheirusernames…

    Which basically means ‘you have to call your foul…’…

    FWIW, I suggested to Mr. Dog that it might be best not to refer to you as “Rick the Prick” online and he’s done that… or not done that, as far as I know…

    From time to time we all say*type things we wish we hadn’t, especially on GameDay Threads… and sometimes, it looks like we really “spit in each other’s faces”, but the truth is… we really didn’t…. we were just talking*typing fast and something sloppy slipped out…

    Sh&t happens… Let’s all move on… and focus on what is best for everybody…
    and enjoy a great Winter!

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    12/09/2014 at 12:09 PM #64905
    ryebread
    Participant

    Rick: Statsheet’s the best thing I’ve got for analyzing this.

    Packfanistan: I may be a black helicopter guy. I certainly don’t think that in football though. Anecdotally, what I have seen over the past 10 years is reinforced by some of the statistical outliers.

    Basketball is the game in the US, along with baseball that officiating plays the largest part of the game. In no other game that is popular in the US does the official make judgement calls on every play that impact the eligibility of the player in the game.

    There’s known fact that basketball games have been manipulated via officiating. It’s clearly obvious that Swof’s dirty and runs the conference in a pro-UNC fashion. It’s also obvious that Duke/UNC have been colluding for mutual benefit.

    The numbers are the numbers in the vacuum. They’re just more alarming in the greater context, which is what you’re talking about.

    12/09/2014 at 6:47 PM #64924
    Tau837
    Participant

    TJW fouled out 3 times in the regular season. All three times were games that Luckie called. Luckie called 5 NC State regular season games, and Warren fouled out a staggering 60% of them, while not fouling out in another regular season game all year.

    Warren committed 97 fouls last year, but 22 of them were in 5 regular season games that Luckie called. So, 22% of his fouls came from the 5 games where Luckie was involved. Those 5 games represented only 13% of the total games that we played. Putting it another way, in those five games, his foul rate was 4.4 fouls per game. In all the other games, it was 2.41. That’s a 82% greater foul rate when Mr. Luckie is on the whistle.

    For this line of thinking to be valid, it is insufficient to cite the number of fouls called on Warren in games that Luckie officiated. Rather, we need to know how many of his fouls were actually called by Luckie. For example, it would be much more persuasive if we knew that Luckie called 20 fouls on Warren in 5 games than if he called 6.

    I haven’t seen that data; did I miss it?

    12/09/2014 at 7:18 PM #64928
    Rick
    Keymaster

    Tau,
    It does not exist and it is an important gap in the numbers bit, again, the numbers are very damning.

    12/09/2014 at 7:46 PM #64931
    Tau837
    Participant

    OK, that’s what I thought. So all of this evidence is circumstantial and speculative. There is no actual known trend that can be directly tied to Luckie (or any other specific referee).

    Carry on.

    12/09/2014 at 8:35 PM #64933
    phcqmfd
    Participant

    I guess you could go in the archives and look at the old game films to see which ref call which foul. It would be easy to do and I’m sure the b-ball coaches have said data. The best example was in the last game, (I do high school games an each official has an area that they are responsible for) where one official was getting dirty looks from his peers for making calls that were not his to make.

    12/09/2014 at 9:27 PM #64935
    tjfoose1
    Participant

    Also would need to check stats of all non Wolfpack games officiated by Luckie. Would need to compare if the increase in called fouls was across the board for all teams, and thus not anti-Pack. Or perhaps just a few teams? Or maybe for most teams save those of a shade of blue?

    That written, Luckie is a dick. Would seem he’s not alone.

    12/10/2014 at 9:40 AM #64953
    Mike
    Participant

    No scientific evidence here against Luckie other than the eyeball test. So I am sitting there watching several games with my sister, one the of the biggest Pack fans ever, and she has no idea what Jamie Luckie looks like.

    Yet, watching the games, she will say something like “that guy always calls against us.” Or “why does that guy always call phantom fouls on us?” She picked up on it, and after awhile I said that was Luckie and she started watching him even more closely. Granted she is biased for us, but even she said that guy is a jerk and a crook.

    12/10/2014 at 10:08 AM #64956
    ryebread
    Participant

    tjfoose1: I’ve done that. Luckie calls more fouls against NC State than he does against other teams he officiates. It’s in that old thread.

    Tau837: Respectfully, that is incorrect. You don’t have to have that to understand massive statistical outliers.

    12/10/2014 at 11:49 AM #64959
    Rick
    Keymaster
    ryebread wrote:

    tjfoose1: I’ve done that. Luckie calls more fouls against NC State than he does against other teams he officiates. It’s in that old thread.

    I did that in this very thread. I posted overall games as well as ACC games.

    12/10/2014 at 1:15 PM #64963
    pakfanistan
    Participant

    Wait, I did the same thing, and it DIDN’T show that.

    12/10/2014 at 2:47 PM #64966
    ryebread
    Participant

    pakfanistan: Did you remove the games where Luckie officiated NC State when you did it? His numbers against us skew his overall numbers.

    12/10/2014 at 3:10 PM #64967
    pakfanistan
    Participant

    It’s on the first page and pulled straight from Luckie’s page on stat sheet.

    http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/jamie-luckie/teams

    12/10/2014 at 4:10 PM #64968
    Rick
    Keymaster

    Look at the number of fouls called against UNC in 2012-2013 (he did not ref any UNC games last year hmmm).

    13.3 FPG

    12/11/2014 at 12:03 AM #64977
    ryebread
    Participant

    Packfanistan: You’re kind of making my point. To look at this stuff, is more than just the front page. You have to take out the effect of NC State games. Let’s do that.

    Luckie called 7 NC State games and 293 fouls were called in those games. Luckie’s crew averages 41.86 FPG in games where NC State is involved. He called 22 FPG against NC State.

    Now that leaves 89 other games called by Luckie last year. He averaged 37.69 FPG called in those. Split that in half and that’s 19 FPG called on the average team that Luckie’s crews officiate. That means that Luckie called 16% more fouls against NC State than the average team.

    Let’s look at his disqualifications due to foul outs. He fouled out 9 in our games, 6 of which were NC State players, 3 of which were Warren. So 2/3rds of those fouling out in Luckie called NC State games were NC State players, and 50% of the time, the State player that fouled out was named TJ Warren. In 7 games he fouled out 8 players, which is a rate of 1.14 DQs per game. NC State had a player foul out at a rate of .85 DQs per game. TJW fouled out at a rate of .43. Our opponents had .285 players DQ per game. That means we were 3 times as likely to have someone DQ’d as our opponents. It also means that TJW was 50% more likely to foul out than someone from the ENTIRE OTHER TEAM COMBINED.

    Let’s look at his stats with NC State removed. He fouled out everyone else combined at a total rate of .85 players DQ’d per game for BOTH teams combined. That means that the average team had a foul out rate of .425 DQ’d.

    Now let’s compare them:
    – NC State at .85 DQs per game vs average other team at .425 DQs per game. That’s twice as likely that a NC State player is going to get DQ’d than the average team.
    – TJW fouled out .425, which is the same rate as all the other teams on average. That means one guy was as likely to foul out as entire other teams.

    Again, it’s not like TJW was a fouler. This is previously discussed earlier in the thread.

    So, that means in a Luckie called game, if anyone was going to foul out, 2 would be from NC State, one of which would be Warren, and one would be from the other team.

    Does this not stick out at you as odd, or is it just that:
    – Gott doesn’t coach defense and we don’t move our feet well (insert opine by many for the clutching and grabbing by UVA and Duke and look at their foul numbers)
    – Play at a high pace (see UNC foul fallacy)

    Do you not see how this impacts games?

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