ACC Operation Basketball: State Picked 9th

14-15 Basketball85

Today at ACC Operation Basketball, State was picked to finish 9th, which seems fair (TheACC.com):

ACC Operation Basketball 2014-15 Preseason Poll
(First-place votes in parenthesis)

Team & Points
1. Duke (41): 935
2. North Carolina (12): 870
3. Louisville (3): 847
4. Virginia: 824 (7)
5. Syracuse: 706 (2)
6. Pitt: 592
7. Notre Dame: 515
8. Florida State: 506
9. NC State: 478
10. Miami: 442
11. Clemson: 330
12. Wake Forest: 221
13. Georgia Tech: 195
14. Boston College: 184
15. Virginia Tech: 155

Now, make sure you’re caught up on the other basketball-related news today, here and here.

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Home › Forums › ACC Operation Basketball: State Picked 9th

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  • 10/29/2014 at 7:21 PM #60152
    StateFans
    Keymaster

    Today at ACC Operation Basketball, State was picked to finish 9th, which seems fair (TheACC.com): ACC Operation Basketball 2014-15 Preseason Poll (Fir
    [See the full post at: ACC Operation Basketball: State Picked 9th]

    10/29/2014 at 7:51 PM #60159
    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Seems about right to me, though it of course means nothing. I could see us in the 6-10 range.

    10/29/2014 at 8:48 PM #60162
    ryebread
    Participant

    I have us about 6th or 7th. For whatever reason, I just don’t think that ND or FSU finish ahead of us.

    I also don’t think Buzz finishes last. I know VT doesn’t have much talent, but it is just a hunch.

    10/29/2014 at 9:15 PM #60165
    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    The PACK will do better than this.

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    10/30/2014 at 5:28 AM #60169
    Alpha Wolf
    Keymaster

    Below the top 3, it’s a crap shoot, and any team in the top 9 could finish 3-9.

    And I’m going to go on the record now that Buzz Williams is COY at the end of the year.

    10/30/2014 at 7:41 PM #60187
    john of sparta
    Participant

    1.with you on Buzz.
    2.9th is a good guess.
    3.UNX might play with a ‘chip on its shoulder’
    and take the title, but i don’t know.
    4.such is the life of this SFN poster.

    10/30/2014 at 9:07 PM #60191
    RedReid
    Participant

    This will be the 3rd time in 4 years that a Gott Squad has been picked 9th(or so) and he has over achieved each time. At the end of the day, If you want to take a nice stab at who will be good, look at the experience. Miami 13′ and Virginia 14′ were loaded with Seniors and nobody picked it. Both of those squads took ACC Regular and Tournament. I have a lot of confidence in Gott. The loss of Deshawn Painter was big on the 13′ State team. Left us without the depth we really needed to make a conference title push. People were disappointed that season but we played most of our games with 6 guys that season with Purvis fading fast on us. I like the depth we have this season. We have some unknowns with our Freshman and Trevor Lacey. Look for Kyle Washington to be the emotional and physical leader of this team. This conference should get 8 teams in the NCAA tournament. Which really plays into Gott’s hands. Have the team playing good at the end of the year and make a big run at the end. I like us to finish 5, 6, or 7. We are young, but I think we have more talent across the team than we have had in a long time. If they play together, this is going to be a fun year Boys and Girls! GO PACK!

    10/31/2014 at 8:43 AM #60196
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    I also think we finish in the 5-7 range, maybe with a 6 seed in the NCAAT. That’s an ideal platform to do some real March damage!

    10/31/2014 at 9:25 AM #60197
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster
    BJD95 wrote:

    I also think we finish in the 5-7 range, maybe with a 6 seed in the NCAAT. That’s an ideal platform to do some real March damage!

    Who are you and what have you done with BJD? I’m not nearly that optimistic and BJD is usually even more pessimistic than me.

    10/31/2014 at 9:47 AM #60202
    JasonP
    Participant

    Barber is the key to the season. If he figures it out, we’re competitive with anyone.

    10/31/2014 at 9:48 AM #60203
    1.21 Jigawatts
    Keymaster

    I think 9th at best unless Gottfried has discovered that the Ole’ defense loses games on top of the loss of all everything Buckets. NIT is the only postseason I foresee.

    10/31/2014 at 9:58 AM #60204
    redisgood
    Participant

    The defense is going to be much improved this year. Cat, Dez, and Beejay were already good defenders last year. A slimmed down Beejay, a bulked up Washington, and the addition of the Martins and Abu is going to make this a very good defensive team. Losing Tyler Lewis will only help the defense as well.

    I’m in the 5-7 camp,but wouldn’t be surprised by a little higher or lower than that.

    10/31/2014 at 9:59 AM #60205
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    This is a deep lineup that looks to me like it will play very good defense. I think MG has slowly adapted his personnel to get more and better defenders on the floor. Hipster Cat and ALMKH could be the very best defenders in the league at the two most important defensive positions.

    The scheme/coaching is designed to promote offensive efficiency. We are fixing the defense with personnel instead of coaching. I have a hard time describing this, but I really think it’s what’s happening.

    Just subtracting TAFKAWBS and Vandy from the roster will do wonders for team defense. BSW will still play heavy minutes (as he should, to keep opponents from clogging the lane), but 1 poor defender among 5 is much different than 3 among 5.

    10/31/2014 at 10:18 AM #60206
    1.21 Jigawatts
    Keymaster

    You still have to learn defense and have a scheme, it just doesn’t happen at the college level with talent alone. Also, expecting freshmen to be good defenders in the acc is wishful thinking. While others may have faith and belief that things will be better on defense, I have none, thanks to MG’s track record as a coach and seeing what the ACC does to non-lottery pick freshmen.

    10/31/2014 at 10:23 AM #60207
    Wufpacker
    Participant

    If the new and improved (and thus far only VERY alleged) defensive team y’all are talking so much about actually materializes, then we might do some damage. If not, then we’ll be a double digit seed playing on ACCT Wednesday.

    EDIT – Jigsy just said it better than I did. Basically, I’ll believe it when I see it.

    10/31/2014 at 10:24 AM #60208
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    I dunno, pre-weight loss KH was a pretty outstanding defender as a non-lottery frosh. Abu should be similar.

    Lee and Lacey…are not freshmen. So that’s a pretty solid defensive core.

    Our defensive scheme is pretty simple – primarily aggressive man-to-man. You just need guys fast enough to get around screens and smart enough to know when to switch.

    My eyes tell me Hipster Cat and ALMKH are very high-BBIQ players. PG and C set the tone for defense.

    10/31/2014 at 10:25 AM #60209
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    The biggest X factors to me are how Kyle Washington and Frenchie Le Nard develop.

    10/31/2014 at 10:35 AM #60210
    1.21 Jigawatts
    Keymaster

    While I agree that Beejay was disruptive when on the court and in a half court set State was attrocious on transitition defense and easily beaten with screens, Cat included who would almost always go under a screen instead of over it. BJD you speak of high basketball IQ but having a coach who teaches proper defense goes a long way in increasing a players bball-IQ, or the appearence of it. There’s also never been any communication (that I can see or tell) on the court between the players while on D. I could be speaking out of my butt on that one but the eyeball evidence shows they either don’t talk or are speaking swahili out there. Either way they look like they are playing a pickup game together for the first time. I’m with wuf on this, I’ll believe they have improved on defense when they show it too me for the first time and can do so consistently against similar competition and not the sisters of the poor.

    10/31/2014 at 10:44 AM #60211
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    Buckets and KH were fantastic transition defenders. You’re right, Hipster Cat needs to grow in that area. In the half-court, he’s the best defensive guard NC State has had in 25+ years, minimum.

    The communication issue was twofold. TAFKAWBS, by all accounts, undermined the hell out of Hipster Cat’s ability to lead the team. While not having a true 1 in reserve is challenging, it’s also a growth opportunity. We ride or die with Hipster Cat. So when he speaks this year, his teammates will listen.

    ALMKH, everybody’s best friend on the team, can also be the “vocal guy” on a team still mostly full of introverts. That wasn’t possible when he played 5-10 mpg.

    The other issue is that we often played with 3 (sometimes 4, when KW had off nights defensively) guys on the court who all the communication in the world wouldn’t help. You needed a strong defensive-minded coach to get ANYTHING defensively out of them. We don’t have that. MG didn’t recruit WBS or Vandy, and neither one bought into his leadership, either. He did recruit BSW, but in a very defined role of zone-buster.

    This is the first team that really reflects MG’s vision for NC State basketball. Time will tell how it comes together.

    10/31/2014 at 11:13 AM #60213
    1.21 Jigawatts
    Keymaster

    I guess we’ll find out if Addition by Subtraction improves the defense this year. Only have to wait a couple of months before we start to find out. Personally I think we have the same defensive team that we’ve always had under Gott and that he’s had in the past. I’ll be happily surprised if you’re right on this because adding a defense to Gott’s offensive system will go a long ways in how this team will finish.

    10/31/2014 at 1:18 PM #60216
    Rick
    Keymaster

    I tend to lean towards jig’s point of view. I am always skeptical of expecting improvement when your only true proven offensive weapon left.
    Cat has to become a top ten ACC player and BJA has to become a force as well as other things in order to improve over last year. I am not saying it will not happen just that it is more unlikely than likely to happen especially to State. How often do things break right for us?
    The most important factor is Gott has to decide defense is important. We can talk all day about how much better so and so is than so and so in regards to defense but until the coaches decide it is important it will not matter. When your playing time is related to how well you play defense, then you will see noticable improvement. Historically Gott has not cared about defense to that level and I see little reason to believe that will change. It MIGHT but as of right now, outside of blind hope, there is no reason to think so.

    10/31/2014 at 1:28 PM #60219
    Gowolves
    Participant

    1.2 Jig, basketball defense is not that complicated. Most of it is effort and athletic skill. Two questions you have to answer, Are you quick? and How bad do you want to be good at defense? Now the desire can help overcome the athletic short comings but only to an extent.

    Yes there are schemes to learn and “how to’s” to learn. Like how to defend a on screens and stuff like that but it’s more about the desire to be good at it. I think freshman can be good on defense if they have had it drilled into them when in HS. That is the one area where they can get them on the court early if they are not a lights out shooter or can jump out of the gym. Just my opinion.

    10/31/2014 at 1:36 PM #60220
    Gowolves
    Participant

    Rick,
    I believe the coaches feel that defense is important. They wouldn’t be coaching at this level if they didn’t.

    10/31/2014 at 2:02 PM #60221
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    Some of it is a function of limited practice time. You look at schools that have a strategy of focusing coaching and teaching time on defense. Syracuse, Temple, etc. Year in, year out, they tend to be quite limited offensively. It’s not a great strategy for March. You play one hot team, and you lose because you can’t keep up.

    I would rather we focus more of our teaching time and energy on becoming an efficient, prolific offense. Keep defensive schemes simple, and motivate the kids to give max effort. Recruit kids who have the athletic ability to succeed in aggressive man defense.

    I COMPLETELY agree with divvying up playing time more based on defense. MG did that a little more towards the end of last season, and it paid off. Cautiously optimistic it’s an adjustment he is making.

    One of my philosophies is that if I can only be “A/A-” level in one facet, I choose offense. But to be a real factor in March, you need to be at least a “B” defense, preferably “B+” – THAT is where we have fallen short.

    10/31/2014 at 2:55 PM #60223
    1.21 Jigawatts
    Keymaster

    Gowolves, a team is going to beat you on offense in 1 of 2 ways, either out talent you (UNC) or out scheme you (UVA). If you’re going to present a quality defense then it can’t be an afterthought in practice (I’ve never been to a practice so I have no idea what they teach or for how long). My point is it’s more than desire, you have to be taught defense, footwork, communication, transition, boxing out, help defense, crap that isn’t taught anymore at the high school and AAU level. In high school these guys were able to live off a much higher talent level alone and we all know what AAU is like. Players today need to be educated even more so in college on defense and while I agree with BJD that spending more time on offense is the preferred choice when limited on time and you have the offensive horses that Gott can get, there doesn’t appear to be enough teaching and practice of defense from this staff to improve from average. Defense helps win those few games during the season that’ll improve seeding for the tournament. The tournament is the measuring stick for the quality of the season. If you want to go far in the tournament then you MUST have a quality defense to go along with a really good offense and history shows (I’ll show all of it in an upcoming series of articles) Gottfried doesn’t produce quality defenses.

    So back to the original point: I’ll believe it when I see it because the argument that we’ll be better because we’ve added some non-lottery pick freshmen and we have to be better because so and so are gone and other have to improve from one year to the next simply because they are a year older just doesn’t hold water with me.

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