Why do we bother caring?

13-14 Basketball ACC Headscratchers180

After all of the calls for ‘illegal breathing’against anyone in red & whate that dared played defense near James Michael McAdoo tonight…the video below shows…of course, no foul on McAdoo and out of bounds off State. Without the bad call, there is probably no way that Carolina wins with State up two with 35 seconds to go and TJ Warren shooting two free throws. Of course, without a lot of the strange calls – like three of TJ Warren’s four fouls – there is no way that Carolina wins. But, we all know that. We know it going in. We’ve known it for the entirety of our lives. At what point do we all have to look ourselves in the mirror and tell ourselves that we are INSANE for expecting anything else? Watching re-runs of WWE’s Raw on Hulu Plus provides you a better chance of witnessing fairness and an unexpected result.

Goodnight.

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13-14 Basketball ACC Headscratchers

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  • 02/27/2014 at 7:52 AM #42977
    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Something that has always remained true is if there is a way to lose a game, State will find it. It really is incredible. No lead is safe when you are watching State. We must have really offended the sports Gods somewhere down the line.

    02/27/2014 at 7:58 AM #42979
    Rick
    Keymaster
    bill.onthebeach wrote:

    All the ref-conspiracy-bs goes out the window if we just do one thing….

    Have a Ten point lead with four minutes to play every night…
    And learn how to handle that…

    Apparently that is the only way for us to have a chance against the chosen schools.
    College basketball is a joke.

    02/27/2014 at 8:14 AM #42981
    archdalepack
    Participant

    So let me see if I understand the new rules for State basketball. Make 100 percent of you free throws. Make all jump shots even if fouled on your arm. Make pass to players even with a macadoo on your arm. Do all that and we will let you win a game.

    02/27/2014 at 8:14 AM #42982
    Rick
    Keymaster

    I used to watch any college basketball game I could find. This year I have not watched any teams but State and even those I miss without giving it a second thought.

    I actually took a nap during the VT game.

    The head of the ACC officiating said UNC has a tendency not to foul and this was simply his employees proving him correct.

    02/27/2014 at 8:18 AM #42983
    Tuffy2
    Participant

    I agree with you all about the officiating but maybe a little strategy.
    I just have one question to our coach and that is why not have Lewis and Barber in the game at the same time. This way Lewis main role stays the same and Barber defends Paige when unc has the ball. The ideal time for Gott to put this to work would have been in the OT. To be true to everyone, I was so involved in the final 5 minutes I did not see if Gott did have that line-up in the game.

    02/27/2014 at 8:19 AM #42984
    Rick
    Keymaster
    archdalepack wrote:

    So let me see if I understand the new rules for State basketball. Make 100 percent of you free throws. Make all jump shots even if fouled on your arm. Make pass to players even with a macadoo on your arm. Do all that and we will let you win a game.

    Yup
    If we make a single mistake then questioning the refs is considered “whininig”

    No one seems to comment on a few things
    1) I have seen maybe three charges all year but there were two against us in this game.
    2) The way the game was called once again changed after the half. The game was played well in teh first half so no need to change it.
    3) Our best player on the bench with foul trouble on three questionable calls. Their best player does not get a single foul called on him.
    4) We again put our best player in a position to win the game and the refs do not allow him to.

    02/27/2014 at 8:25 AM #42985
    bill.onthebeach
    Participant
    Rick wrote:

    bill.onthebeach wrote:

    All the ref-conspiracy-bs goes out the window if we just do one thing….

    Have a Ten point lead with four minutes to play every night…
    And learn how to handle that…

    Apparently that is the only way for us to have a chance against the chosen schools.
    College basketball is a joke.

    Rick… that is the only way to BE a championship program…

    Just consider for one minute…. what ALL is involved and what it TAKES starting in August (for bball) to
    have a “Ten Point Lead with Four to Go Every Night”….
    Learning how to handle that … might be the easier of the two halves of the formula….

    The only “jokes” here are thinking there is some other way….
    or making excuses…
    or blaming others…
    or thinking some are “chosen” and some “aren’t”…

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    02/27/2014 at 8:32 AM #42986
    Whiteshoes67
    Participant

    I swore not to debate officiating, so I won’t, but saying the calls against Warren were even questionable really betrays a lack of basketball acumen. No smart basketball player, particularly one who understands his importance to his team, reaches and swats and puts himself in a position to get called for silly, inconsequential fouls. You play defense with your feet, not your hands. This is why we suck at defense. This is one reason we gave up 30+ to Paige in one half.

    Anyone wishes to start a thread where the game strategy, play, and coaching is discussed but the officating racket isn’t, I’m in.

    02/27/2014 at 8:35 AM #42987
    Khan
    Participant

    I am so tired of hearing about refs. Refs, refs, refs. It’s such an excuse. Whining about refs and the ACC might make somebody feel better, and it might explain a loss here or there, but it’s not the problem. The problem is, we lose close games because we consistently play worse than the other teams in the last minute of the game.

    We foul.

    We don’t defend.

    We inbound the ball into the corner and hold it or dribble around until the trap comes.

    We don’t rebound.

    We miss big shots.

    We turn the ball over.

    We miss free throws.

    And what does the other team usually do?

    Hit free throws.

    Hit big shots.

    Defend well.

    Rebound.

    Inbound the ball better.

    Not dribble off their feet.

    Win.

    Our consistent inability to execute in the final minute of the game year after year after year is why we lose close games. Until that changes, and I see no reason that it’s going to anytime soon, we will continue to see the same results.

    But by all means, blame the refs, the ACC, John Swofford, the NCAA, the National Weather Service, Halley’s Comet, Miley Cyrus twerking, or moose farts if that helps folks feel better.

    02/27/2014 at 8:45 AM #42988
    PackFamily
    Participant

    I’ve held that blaming the refs and not us is just whining and that we should focus on what we can control.

    However, it is getting too bad to ignore. What happened last night was predictable. In fact, i called it before it happened, and i am generally not good at such things. It was so bad, so obvious, that it’s sickening.

    There are some ticky-tack fouls that go our way and some we lose; that’s basketball. But the last sequence of regulation and the “turnover” on TJW in overtime is ridiculous. If it were the first time, i would be willing to get over it. It is beyond that now. If you haven’t come to that conclusion, you will likely soon.

    02/27/2014 at 8:50 AM #42989
    1.21 Jigawatts
    Keymaster

    I should have taken my own advice and never turned on the game.

    No smart basketball player, particularly one who understands his importance to his team, reaches and swats and puts himself in a position to get called for silly, inconsequential fouls.

    If I recall you might be referring to the reach in foul call on Warren after he missed a hasty 3pt attempt and I think it was his 4th. If this is the case I was yelling at the tv too that no one should even attempt this because you’ll get called for it every time. I also saw the replay of this particular play and saw that he cleanly poked the ball away from the unc player and into Turner’s hands, Brandt and Gminski even said that wasn’t a foul. Now was that a foul call because they expected him to foul when reaching in? Or were they just not paying attention and called because they saw a reach? Either way it was a clean steal but he was called for a foul and Warren needed to be smarter and not go for that particular steal because the refs are biased to calling a foul on most people if they see you reach in like that from behind after a missed shot.

    This is one reason we gave up 30+ to Paige in one half.

    The biggest reason I saw for Paige being so open was Turner and his nonexistent defense. I can’t tell you how many times I saw him completely lost on the court and had no idea where Paige was, who just happened to be on the other side of the court from Turner, all alone. Not only was he lost multiple times but numerous times I saw him give up on keeping up with Paige or getting around the screens.

    As for the refs and end of game, we screwed the pooch by not playing any defense on Paige and stopping him from going to his left for the easy lay up. It also never should have come down to it because of the non-calls by the refs at the end of regulation and OT.

    As for TJ, I’ve never seen a superstar player not get the benefit of the doubt in call after call. He goes up for a shot and somehow loses the ball in mid-flight? Must be a bad player. Think Parker gets a foul call on that play? Think Fair gets the foul call when the ball goes out of bounds when a player has his hands on you?

    02/27/2014 at 8:55 AM #42990
    MattN
    Participant

    I just want to commend Mark Gottfried for not decapitating a referee with a folding metal chair last night. Just a remarkable display of character and restraint. Not sure I could have done the same.

    02/27/2014 at 8:56 AM #42991
    lush
    Participant

    what cannot be denied is we allowed Paige to get WIDE, and I mean WIDE, open several times, which turned the game around. Then, with the game on the line, we allow him to get to the rim with little resistance.

    Ding ding ding

    02/27/2014 at 9:02 AM #42992
    Sweet jumper
    Participant

    We continue to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. That is all I can muster after the late trip home last night.

    02/27/2014 at 9:13 AM #43000
    JasonP
    Participant

    Quoting Packalum44 from the game thread:

    I die a little bit inside each traumatic game I watch…This is the most painful loss I’ve experienced since RW and Tom lost us to Maryland for ACC title trip…Feelings suck.

    Ditto. This was painful. Made more so by the abject failure to remotely defend their best player at crucial times. Can’t imagine how frustrated the coaches must be when they watched our guards get abused in crunch time. It’s like they’re feet are stuck in sand.

    Of course, if we’d have won, Holes fans would be saying the same about not being able to defend TJ. He put on a clinic and schooled their whole squad multiple times. At about the 10 minute mark in the 2nd, before picking up his 4th with a frustration foul, he put the team on his shoulders, and picked up where he left off after coming back in. Best State player since Googs. Hope we get another year out of him but realize that’s not going to happen. Players like him are few and far between for the Pack.

    02/27/2014 at 9:18 AM #43001
    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Warren is truly an amazing player. He just knows how to score. He’s strong as an ox. Too bad (just like with Rivers, RW and Glennon) we aren’t winning with him. Wasting away tremendous opportunities with a truly great player.

    02/27/2014 at 9:22 AM #43002
    Adventuroo
    Participant

    Interesting Column. I admit to being a “Ref Junkie”. I try to look at who is officiating. My view from the second level is not the best…but here goes.

    First>> Hats off to the CROWD. There was probably less than 5% UNC light blue there. YES, there were Light BLUE in the PRIZED SEATS in the Main section on each side of the court. The Boosters who have paid substantial bucks for these seats and use them as PERKS for customers or friends were MOSTLY there last night. Sometimes they DO NOT ATTEND. There was very little Light Blue in there….so that IS an improvement. The CROWD WAS LOUD. Great to see it full.

    Second>> It was a Tale of First Half vs. Second Half/OT. UNC was out of sync during the first half. NOW, did we cause that or were they overconfident. The score at the half was US UP BY 8. My concern was that if UNC was not playing well, would that continue and if we were playing GREAT…..could we continue. The results were not that unpredicted.

    Third>> The Refs were INCONSISTENT. I will NOT say biased, just inconsistent. They called about 9 files (equal on both side) in the first 4 minutes. At that rate, the second half would have been a 40+ foul HALF. As it was it was a 44 Foul Game, including the OT. Considering it was an OT game, it was about average.

    FOURTH>> The fouling and calls did seem to be somewhat “ROY” influenced. I do NOT understand HOW or WHAT changed during the half. I am NOT a conspiracy theorist….I do NOT believe that Swofford called and said….TIGHTEN IT UP. But they did and TJ got in trouble. What IS totally baffling is how the UNC Star ended up with NO, NADA, NOT ONE PF. If you look at the distribution, the fouls are TOTALLY inconsistent on the UNC side.

    FINALLY….the team really played great. All the comments about TJ’s missing the FT’s. GARBAGE. TJ gets double teamed and caught and has turnovers….NOW, since he scores all of our points….what would YOU do? His FT % is pretty good….but he missed a couple of CLUTCH ones….again, bench him?

    Disappointed….YES. Frustrated…..YES. BUT we did play with poise last night and also against Cuse.

    If things progress, we will be better….

    02/27/2014 at 9:43 AM #43005
    Rick
    Keymaster

    Steve Logan who is not known for being a big State fan tweeted that the refs “know who is supposed to win”.

    So, yeah, its just me who sees this bias [rolling eyes]

    02/27/2014 at 9:47 AM #43006
    tjfoose1
    Participant

    Haven’t read any of the above, don’t plan to. I saw it, already know it, and don’t have to stomach to read the comments of those with their @#$! up the rear of the officials.

    To add, perhaps, something different from what has already been posted:

    I was at the game. For perspective of my view, see the picture I took below of the evil cabal. That’s exactly the spot of the Warren “TO”. But what was even worse, in my opinion (though not as blatant, but with a bigger overall impact of the game), was the obvious moving picks, hip checks, elbows, knees and holds that went on off the ball, THE ENTIRE GAME. Almost as if they’re a legal part of the game built into Roy’s tactics and strategy.

    I lost count on how many times I saw an NC State player moving on defense, off the ball, only to be knocked back or off balance, by an elbow/hip/or knee of a moving pick. Not called, not once.

    Absolutely pathetic.

    02/27/2014 at 9:53 AM #43007
    pakfanistan
    Participant
    Rick wrote:

    Steve Logan who is not known for being a big State fan tweeted that the refs “know who is supposed to win”.

    So, yeah, its just me who sees this bias [rolling eyes]

    So one football guy is overstepping his bounds by expressing his opinion on basketball, but Steve Logan is an authority….

    I think I understand.

    02/27/2014 at 9:54 AM #43008
    tjfoose1
    Participant

    I’ve heard some talking about how young NC State is, and how that bodes very well for the future. True, to a point, at least for some players and aspects of the team game. But unless TJ bypassed million$ to be be an active player on the NC State roster next year, do you all really think a huge team improvement is guaranteed?

    02/27/2014 at 9:56 AM #43009
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    The refs evened things up throughout that game and at the end. We didn’t lose because of officiating. We didn’t lose because we were the worse team. We lost because their player made the last basket, simple as that. I hate that feeling of helplessness, that feeling that even when we give it our all we still come up short, especially against Carolina. Our kids played great. TJ played great. The crowd was great. We were one free throw away from winning, or one blocked shot, or maybe one foul call. Always that little something that didn’t quite work out that leaves you hopeless and wondering if this is ever going to end, this feeling of helplessness. The truth is I am tired of being the underdog. I am tired of cheering for this team and constantly hoping that this is the game we turn it around or this is the win that we need for our resume or this is the stretch of schedule we need to win in order to clinch an at large birth. I want to expect to win. UNC expects to win, they simply expect it. Their community is insulted when they don’t, it is a fluke, a hiccup. Duke expects to win. Kansas expects to win. People expect these teams to win every game they play. It is an attitude. You dont take sh!t off of anybody. I am tired of hoping and wishing for State to be great again. We just go out and do it. Not we should win, WE DO WIN. No refs, no conspiracies, no excuses. We win because because it is there for the taking. I might be bat sh!t insane, but this is the last game I will ever watch hoping that we come out with a win. I expect it from now on. It’s an attitude thing…

    02/27/2014 at 9:59 AM #43010
    Rick
    Keymaster

    Joe Giglio tweeted a comment about th end of game call against TJ not being here.

    Jeff Goodman tweets “I thought there were some bad calls down the stretch”

    But its just us “whiney” State fans that see it.

    02/27/2014 at 10:05 AM #43011
    maverick_ncsu
    Participant

    I know that many on this site love Gott and think he’s the best we’ve had in a long time, but his in-game management has been questionable to me at several important times this year. I know Lewis shouldn’t have called the last one at the end of the game, but I’m more concerned with the fact that we left the game with one from overtime. 3 opportunities I expected a coach with a timeout at the end of overtime to use his timeout:
    1 – before they inbound the ball to Warren before he was mugged and the ball went out of bounds (granted, you would rather have the timeout for the opportunities 2 or 3 following).
    2 – once he saw Warrent get trapped in the corner (which we should have learned from Cuse to not throw the ball into a corner with a team that wants to trap at the end of the game). Coaches can yell for timeouts from the bench. Gotta be ready for that.
    3 – after TJ makes the second free throw at the end of overtime before Paige’s last drive. I don’t know how many coaches I’ve watched (Roy and K do it all of the time) take a timeout after a made basket at a crucial time to set up the defense. I don’t know how you don’t call it here at the very least having watched Carolina go down the court in a heartbeat and score after a made basket several times this game already.

    I agree that some calls really hurt us and it feels like we were playing 5 on 7-8. But win or lose, I would like to see some higher BBIQ like
    – not throwing the ball into the corner again,
    – seeing at least ONE person run to a guy who has picked up his dribble and is in trouble (Lewis at the end of the game when he called the TO and Warren at the end…isn’t this something you learn when you are first playing basketball, make yourself available to a guy in trouble),
    – and the timeout being used more appropriately at the end of the game (didn’t have one at the end of Cuse and had one here and didn’t use it)
    – running an inbounds play. Really I’ll take any movement at this point.

    Overall, pleased at the intensity we played with and the fact that the team didn’t look intimidated and really took it to them at the beginning of both halves. Would have like to see Lewis and Barber in together some as Lewis was running the offense better and actually doing okay on defense. But Turner could not keep up with Paige and a quick guard like Barber would have been perfect for that role.

    Still hurts, but provided some much needed entertainment last night.

    02/27/2014 at 10:07 AM #43012
    Rick
    Keymaster
    pakfanistan wrote:
    Rick wrote:

    Steve Logan who is not known for being a big State fan tweeted that the refs “know who is supposed to win”.

    So, yeah, its just me who sees this bias [rolling eyes]

    So one football guy is overstepping his bounds by expressing his opinion on basketball, but Steve Logan is an authority….

    I think I understand.

    His opinion is every bit as valid as yours and I would have thought more than mine given how much you hate my opinions. But it seems you just ignore anyone who disagrees with you.

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