ACC BB Round-Up

The facepalm seems to have gained popularity during the pre-game reports and the results over the past week certainly deserve one (probably more than one).    I could say a lot more, but I think that everything that could be said has already been covered in the half-dozen threads since last Sat.

The regular season is down to two weeks and four or five games.   Time is running out so we’ll look at how the teams are shaping up for the various byes in the ACCT.   Of course, we’ll also look at the mess in the middle to see that there is a lot of work left for all of these teams if they want an at-large bid to the NCAAT.

But let’s start with the RPI charts to see where everyone in the top 2/3 of the conference is sitting.

Housekeeping notes:

  • FSU has been removed from the IN graph.
  • UNC and WF have been removed from the BUBBLE graph.

 

2_21_IN

UNC (9-4)

Remaining schedule – WF and ND at home with State, VT, and Duke on the road.     UNC will be favored in four of those games.     They should be able to sleep-walk to at least 12 wins and with the tie-breaker over Pitt, will likely end up no worse than the 4 seed.   UNC is currently tied with Duke in the loss column which means that the game in Durham to end the regular season should be for the 3rd seed.

UNC should be moving up in the various seeding brackets…and currently should be around a 5-6 seed.   Interesting factoid #1:   The six seed has a better winning percentage in the NCAAT than the 5th seed.

 

Pitt (8-5)

Remaining schedule – BC, ND, and Clemson on the road with FSU and State at home.    Pitt will probably be favored in all of these games, so we should expect 12 or 13 wins.   To get the 4th seed in the ACCT and a two-round bye, Pitt needs Duke and someone else to beat UNC down the stretch.   Worst case, their final game against Clemson will be for the 5th seed.

Pitt’s best win of the year….#48 Stanford.    Combine this embarrassing fact with their RPI and they are getting dangerously close to the dreaded 8/9 seed in the NCAAT (ie,  the second round ejection seat).    Interesting factoid #2….the #10 seed has a better winning percentage in the NCAAT than the #9 seed.

 

 

2_21_Bubble

The overwhelming conclusion from this graph is that the bubble teams allegedly competing for an at-large bid don’t have much movement in that direction.   0.500 ball from this point on will not get any of these teams into the NCAAT.

 

Clemson (7-6)

Clemson’s schedule  starts with a two game road stretch against GT and WF and then they finish the season at home against UMD, UM, and Pitt.   The Tiggers will probably be favored in four of five games and could end up with 11 wins.    It wouldn’t take a lot for the final game of the regular season against Pitt in SC to end up being for the 5th seed in the ACCT…and possibly a ticket to the Big Dance.   But then again, there is no way to predict what a team that has beaten Duke and lost to #114 ND will do from one game to the next.

Some details on Clemson’s NCAAT Resume

  • RPI Ranking of #72 – not good
  • OOC SOS of #272 – somewhere between bad and very bad
  • Best win – #10 Duke – very good
  • 2nd best win – #56 NCSU – not good
  • Bad Losses – @ #114 ND and @ #142 Auburn – pretty typical for back-side of bubble teams

Clemson’s goals:

  • win over Pitt
  • win on Friday in ACCT
  • Enough other wins to have an RPI at 60 or better.

NCSU (6-7)

Remaining schedule – VT and Pitt on the road and UNC, UM and BC at home.   Favored in three of the five games trending towards a 9-9 record.

Highlights of State’s NCAAT Resume:

  • RPI Ranking #58 – OK but nothing spectacular
  • OOC SOS of #110 – nothing special, but not horrible
  • Best win @ #50 Tenn – somewhere between not good and bad
  • Bad Losses – @ #105 WF and  #122 NC Central – typical

The focal point of State’s season was never going to be the Clemson game.   The way that they lost after playing so well at Syracuse shows that there was no magical transformation before the trip north.   The same State team that we’ve seen blown out a number of times this year still sits on the bench next to MG.    State fans will need to see the Carrier Dome version of the Pack play for the entire game several times against at least two good teams between now and Selection Sunday.

UMD (7-7)

Remaining schedule – Clemson on the road and SYR, VT and UVa at home.    They will probably only be favored in one game the rest of the year suggesting 8-10.   I’m shocked that a UMD team that couldn’t beat State playing without Warren still shows up on the Bubble Graph at all.

FSU (6-8)

Remaining schedule – BC and Pitt on the road with GT and SYR at home.   2-2 would give the Noles an 8-10 record to wrap up one of the worst collapses in recent memory.

ND (5-9)

Remaining schedule – WF, UVA, and UNC on the road with GT and Pitt at home.   For a team that couldn’t beat UM on the road this week, 6 or 7 wins and the final spot on Wed seems likely.

 

Final Thoughts

The pre-season poll on the right side of the SFN homepage showed that 60% of the voters expected this State team to win between 7-9 games.   This prediction is a little odd since pre-season expectations among State fans frequently trend towards delusionally-optimistic.     But this is one of those times when there is no joy in being proven right.

One of the choices on the pre-season poll was 9-9 and NCAAT Bubble.   With the expanded and weakened ACC, we need to disassociate ACC record with NCAAT selection.    Just last year, UVA had an 11-7 conference record and didn’t get an at-large bid.    With the unbalanced conference schedule and an overall weak conference, there are simply too many meaningless wins available to attempt any such correlation.

About VaWolf82

Engineer living in Central Va. and senior curmudgeon amongst SFN authors One wife, two kids, one dog, four vehicles on insurance, and four phones on cell plan...looking forward to empty nest status. Graduated 1982

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Viewing 24 posts - 26 through 49 (of 49 total)
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  • #41920
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    Guys, I really think we’ve GOTT to win the ACCT to sway the selection committee.

    You either missed or have forgotten the Herb years,

    #41921
    WolfWiz11
    Participant

    Cat is a mercurial player. I was really pissed at him, but I just feel bad for the kid after the Cuse game; I mean just imagine him walking thru the Free Expression Tunnel or eating dinner at Case and maybe getting a dirty look here and there from a fan. But honestly, I think he and the team will be better for the adversity.

    Last year we had guys like Zo and Calvin, who, bless them, didn’t want to be around long enough to develop; they just craved enough short-term national attention to make the jump to the pros. And while I applaud their courage, I don’t know if it was the best move for them (even with this years’ deep draft, but that’s another discussion).

    What we have this year is a project. Young, inexperienced guys who are learning thru mistakes and adversity, really experiencing what it means to be a student-athlete. Some real 4-year guys (with the exception of Warren). My hope is that we come out swinging next year with guys like Washington, Anya, Turner and Cat improving their games, getting their weight under control, increasing their bball IQs. In essence, the renaissance we experienced in Gott’s first year.

    #41922
    WolfWiz11
    Participant

    Meh, didn’t miss the Sendek years; was just too young to be phased by em. But in all seriousness, just win the dagum ACCT and we wouldn’t have to have this discussion 🙂

    #41923
    Alpha Wolf
    Keymaster

    Cat seems to want to play ever game like it is an AAU game or the McD AA game. He’s got a lot of physical talent but seems to struggle in the team concept a lot of the time.

    Look at all the great point guards, past and present – they all make the right pass at the right time, and when it isn’t there they either pull out and reset or they have their own ability to score. Cat seems to lack that killer pass right now on a consistent basis and his mid-range jumper needs some real work. If he can get his head around that, he’ll be an All-American. If he doesn’t and plays like it is all about him, he’ll end up playing in Europe, because NBA scouts aren’t going to recommend investing millions on the kid.

    I think that the bigs are getting better everywhere except the free throw line in most cases. That should be a huge off-season goal for this team, improve at the line. It only take minimal coaching and a lot of repetition to master.

    Finally, someone needs to step up and be the leader of this squad. All too often they look like a rudderless boat trying to navigate Grade 4 rapids.

    #41926
    13OT
    Participant

    State’s bubble has already burst. To say that State has some chance and Clemson has a slim chance to no chance is illogical. They beat the hell out of us Tuesday night, they have a better overall record than we do, and they have more quality wins than we do. In fact, we don’t HAVE a quality win this season, but we do have a turdbowl full of bad losses.

    There are only 2 unanswered questions remaining about the ACC this season. One is the order of finish for the top 5 teams, and the other is whether or not Clemson will be the 6th ACC team to make it to the NCAAT. There certainly won’t be a 7th, nor even a 6th if the Tigers don’t make it.

    Right now, VT is one of the worst ACC teams I’ve seen in years, yet I wouldn’t be shocked if they beat us tomorrow. I expect UNC to beat us next week, and I expect us to lose at Pitt. BC and Miami are home games, but that’s not meant much this season.

    Even if we close strong and win 2 games in the ACCT (which would come against the worst teams in the league), this season is over unless we’re dumb enough to sign on for the NIT. RPI is irrelevant when you play like crap all season.

    #41931
    vtpackfan
    Participant

    I don’t like to attribute much of what has happened on the court to any one or two players. The overall makeup is not all that lacking and the coaching has been for the most part commendable. I look at the ACC landscape and see a year of defensive minded basketball. It’s the year of Bennet ball and even Roy Wiiliams is hanging his hat on stingy defense primarily to win.

    An inexperienced Gottfried led squad will always be .500 at best in a conference season like this. There needs to be loose action, end to end play, with teams extending themselves out to score. I just see over 3/4 of the league closing everything in and playing for no tempo games. I even thought the Duke vs UNC game was slow and ugly for the most part.

    #41933
    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    Alpha.. you GOTT this right…

    In Anthony’s — and OTHERS JUST LIKE HIM — defense…. however… I would suggest… they know what they need to do and wants to do those things ( you listed ) consistently well at the highest level.

    The problem is that since 7th grade … most of the kids playing bball today… have not ‘had to’, have not learned how, and have not practiced those things until they GOTT it right.

    Learning ‘mechanics’ and improving ‘BB-IQ’ is one thing….
    Practice Time should fix that…

    Doing it right at Cameron, the Dean Dome or the Carrier Dome… or even the RBC for that matter…. is quite another thing.

    And the jury remains out on that question….

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    #42174
    1.21 Jigawatts
    Keymaster

    If I had a choice between being seeded between 5th and 8th in this year’s ACCT then I’d pick whichever one get’s me matched up against Syracuse on Friday. Right now I’m predicting #1 UVA, #2 SU which would mean I’d want the Pack to finish in 7th. If they can beat the winner of the 10/15 game then they’d set up nicely for a rematch against a team we could realistically beat and help towards getting an at-large NCAAT bid. That and we need UT to win enough to be top 50.

    #42191
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    against a team we could realistically beat

    Are you sure that there will be any of those on Friday in the ACCT?

    #42206
    1.21 Jigawatts
    Keymaster

    Of the top 4 seeds (assuming its UVA, SU, DU, UNC) then yeah I’d say SU is the only one of the four that we could realistically beat. Not saying it will definitely happen, just saying they are the only ones we’ve shown we won’t get blown out by and have a chance at beating.

    #42208
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    I’m not sure if State didn’t get blown by SYR because of match-ups or if it was just one of those days.

    State has looked so bad so many times, that it’s hard to be optimistic about the remainder of the year. The math and history says that there is still a chance to make the NCAAT. The eye test tells a different story.

    #42209
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    I’d want the Pack to finish in 7th.

    I put the 5-10 seeds in the order that I expected them to finish, but didn’t really pay a lot of attention to where State sits. Since Clemson has the tie-breaker and a one game lead over State, the six seed seems unlikely. Likewise, State has the tiebreaker over both UMD and FSU which should put State in the 7 seed.

    Miami now has a 1/2 game lead over ND for the 10th seed. But they have a 3-game road stretch coming up against Virginia, State, and Clemson. It seems unlikely that Miami could catch UMD or FSU to avoid Wed in the ACCT.

    #42212
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    The chance of beating UVA or Cuse is significantly better than the less than 1% shot of beating a Blue. And playing somebody on Thursday that’s already played Wednesday is an advantage. So…7th is the sweet spot.

    #42271
    1.21 Jigawatts
    Keymaster

    I thought I’d take a look at the various sites to see how we fared from this weekends results and how other bubble teams are doing. It’s pretty dang obvious that we got zero help and playing VT, even on the road, hurt us as will playing BC/Miami. No if’s, and’s, or but’s about it, State MUST win a couple of Top 25ish games to have any chance at the NCAAT. Only 2, maybe 3, opportunities left to earn a spot.

    #42272
    Wulfpack
    Participant

    I took a look, too and Dance Card has us as the 14th team out – not even close. Lunardi of course does not have us in. It is looking more and more like the ACC will only get five in. FSU got a bump with its win over Pitt. Pitt is falling, which is not good for us.

    #42273
    Wulfpack
    Participant

    And I would probably say only one opportunity left – UNC. Pitt is unranked. And they will torch us, as they always do, so the year is effectively over IMHO. We don’t get in without a win Wednesday.

    #42314
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    I took a look, too and Dance Card has us as the 14th team out – not even close.

    Losing to Clemson hurt big time. If you noticed, FSU took a big jump up at the Dance Card with their victory over Pitt (now ~3 out). They were over a dozen out before the Pitt game. So a couple of big wins would pay huge dividends for any of the bubble teams.

    The announcers on the FSU/Pitt game were horribly wrong about FSU’s chances (as witnessed by the jump on the Dance Card). It’s one thing to say that you don’t think that FSU can win enough big games. It’s another to proclaim that Pitt is in with one questionable Top 50 win while saying that FSU needs 3 or more (in addition to the two they already had) to have a chance.

    #42315
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    In one of the quirks of RPI calcs, State’s OOC SOS dropped about 9 spots over the weekend. This change was obviously not a product of the VT/State game but added to the misery of playing a bad team late in the year.

    #42347
    Wulfpack
    Participant

    We are not even listed now on espn’s tourney forecast. Pitt and FSU are the only ACC Bubble teams listed with “work left to do”. So we are clearly not even close as it stands today. That Clemson loss was the dagger.

    #42353
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    Captain Obvious here:
    I don’t blame ESPN at all. Why would you discuss a team that hasn’t beaten anyone of note all year long?

    I would change the end of your post to “latest dagger”.

    #42354
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    Finally, someone needs to step up and be the leader of this squad. All too often they look like a rudderless boat trying to navigate Grade 4 rapids.

    ^Hopefully Lewis. Even though it was against VT, still had to like what was on display last Saturday (save for the last 8 minutes – this is where Lewis as the pg needs to really steer the ship). Plus, VT’s zone D had been pretty effective going into that game.

    As for next season, I have high hopes for both Lewis and Washington as team leaders. If only we had an Alex Johnson and/or CJ Williams every season.

    As for that bubble, a win tomorrow night may get us ever so slightly back into the conversation.

    #42355
    tjfoose1
    Participant

    As for next season, I have high hopes for both Lewis and Washington as team leaders. If only we had an Alex Johnson and/or CJ Williams every season.

    Trevor Lacy? What kind of leadership did he show at Alabama?

    #42371
    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Wake beats Clemson tonight, which I would think pretty much ends it for the Tigers. And we lost by 17 to them. That ain’t pretty.

    #42372
    pakfanistan
    Participant

    Clemson is 8-7 in the ACC, and if there’s anything I’ve learned over the last two days, .500 in the ACC = GOOD TEAM.

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