State wins 77-70 at Notre Dame [Updated 7:15 am]

13-14 Basketball57

Old MacDonald had a farm.

State improved to 11-4 (1-1) with its win at Purcell Pavilion tonight. Warren led State with 17 points but it was Barber (16 points) who staved off defeat by hitting 7-of-8 free throws over the final 1:44. Lee and Turner each had 12 points and Vandenberg had 11 boards.

NC State improves to 3-0 in road ACC openers under Mark Gottfried and evens the all-time series against the Irish at four to four.

ESPN supplies this boxscore and also included Cat Barber’s halftime buzzer beater as #6 on their list of Top 10 plays.

BTP added,

In the final minute, that single possession was the difference between Notre Dame fouling and a total crapshoot ending. I found Mike Brey’s decision to foul twice in a three-point game with between 50 and 42 seconds remaining odd, but I can’t totally blame him for putting this Wolfpack team on the line even if good defense and a stop would have given his club sufficient time to get down the floor and hoist a potential game-tying three.

It worked out poorly for Brey in this case, as first Warren knocked down a pair to give State a 71-66 lead, and then Barber followed an Irish layup with a pair of his own. That was an enormous sequence for the Pack. Sometimes things just work out.

The road win at South Bend puts NC State back in the ‘way too early but fun to have’ NCAA Tournament bubble conversation with a current RPI in the low 60s. Don’t forget that two of State’s losses – including our ‘worst loss’ of the year vs RPI #95 North Carolina Central – happened with our starting center injured and unable to play. So, State’s home game against Virginia (RPI #43) at 5pm on Saturday now looms TREMENDOUS for this team’s prospects for the season.

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13-14 Basketball

Home › Forums › State wins 77-70 at Notre Dame

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  • 01/08/2014 at 11:01 AM #36256
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    Some may not agree but a road win @ ND more than makes up for a home loss to Pitt.

    “Make up” mathematically or emotionally?

    I won’t argue emotions, but beating a team at the top of conference (even at home) is worth a heck of lot more than a road win against what appears to be another team from the middle of the conference. But after losing to NC-Central and Mizzu, there was no rational reason to expect State to win either game. So I’m tickled to death with the road win.

    01/08/2014 at 11:18 AM #36259
    tjfoose1
    Participant

    “… beating a team at the top of conference (even at home)…”

    Pitt was 0-0 in ACC play when the came to the RBC. After defeating Maryland at home, they are 2-0.

    Though technically correct, I think the implied sentiment behind referencing Pitt as a team “at the top of the conference” is a little premature.

    I think it’s safe to say that the value, or lack thereof, of the home loss to Pitt has not yet been deteremined.

    01/08/2014 at 11:25 AM #36260
    Daniel_Simpson_Day
    Participant

    Va, I’m not going to get into an argument with you about the math; I concede you know way more about how the committee/RPI/etc. weigh road wins compared to home wins. Also I don’t know how Pitt/ND’s seasons will shake out. I’m saying, as a fan, last night’s win more than makes up for Saturday’s collapse. You can win a home game on pure emotion (I’d argue if Saturday’s game was played later in the day, we would have probably had a better atmosphere that could have contributed more to a win). Road wins are all about preparation, mental toughness, etc.

    01/08/2014 at 11:33 AM #36261
    old13
    Participant

    Great win all around!

    I hope that we continue to see a similar PT distribution. While the causes for the Pack’s giving up big leads in recent games are many, I think that fatigue was one of the primary ones. Having a fresh team down the stretch is most important IMO in winning tight games as well as holding big leads.

    Hopefully the kids now know something of the value of patience now and will practice it against UVa Saturday.

    01/08/2014 at 11:43 AM #36262
    Adventuroo
    Participant

    Wife asked an interesting question about fouls. Here is a little analysis….you come to your own conclusions….

    ND 21
    NCSU 11
    Total 32

    Last NCSU Foul – Barber – 3:03
    Last REAL? ND Foul – Jackson – 3:43
    First Intentional….and I really don’t think it was, but for the purposes of discussion, I will classify it HERE – ND Foul – Connaughton – 67 – 63 @ 1:44

    If you include that then there were 6 (unless I miscounted) Intentional or Strategy or JV fouls…

    Therefore, ND had a total of 15 “normal” fouls and NCSU had 11. Usually MUCH closer.

    The Zeb’s are averaging 10% MORE FPG in 2013-14 than past seasons.
    Eades 36.9
    Anderson 40.4
    Jones 39.4
    Average 38.9 or call it 39 FPG.
    Their Average Home Margin is a NEGATIVE 1.7. NOW, if I read the definitions correctly, a POSITIVE HM means they call MORE FOULS ON THE HOME TEAM.
    SO, in theory or based on the popular TRENDING vernacular, we should have had about 2 fouls MORE than ND. All in all, this game was, statistically speaking, is on the FRINGE of their normal distribution.
    The AVERAGE FSTD (Foul Standard Deviation) for the crew is 8.0….so this game was on the low side…..how far….you decide….my brain is fried.

    Other comments for pleasure….

    As MUCH as I have learned to HATE the This is OUR STATE logo, I brought home to cups from the Ladies Cuse Game. Just for luck and a memento. I did NOT realize they were the OUR STATE cups. Washed them and threw them in the cabinet. Last night I felt inclined to write VICTORY on each and we had a celebratory night cap. Good win for both.
    The announcers (GRRR) made such a big deal of the weight loss that I think the team should be the spokesperson(s) for a National Diet Company….The Wolfpack Way to VICTORY could be a slogan. Or our team nutritious should write a book on the same diet. Both or either could generate valuable revenue for the AD…..

    It would seem that Gott and Lewis perhaps had a little behind closed door session….and the results seem pretty positive….

    01/08/2014 at 12:06 PM #36264
    graywolf
    Participant

    Nice win…..we are Jekel and Hyde.

    01/08/2014 at 1:30 PM #36273
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    If you assume that both Pitt and ND are likely to be in the 30-50 range (as I do), then yeah, the road win is better.

    One thing that should be mentioned more – Buckets was a madman on defense last night, especially in the soft press.

    01/08/2014 at 1:33 PM #36274
    Greywolf
    Participant

    When you sit in the stands and watch the game you see differently, and when you stand on the sidelines and watch, you see another. Those of us sitting in the stands watching through a fans eyes don’t see what those watching through the coach’s eyes see. What was needed when THE SUBSTITUTION was made was steady play and not letting the Irish make a run. At the end what was needed was a different skill set. Mr. DOG, you gotta stop looking through a coach’s eyes.

    When their center got the uncontested lay up near the end, the some State fans got upset. Here’s the deal. Time was winding down. We were guarding against trading 2 for 3. So we gave up an easy 2 and when they fouled, we got the easy 2 back.

    I get a real laugh out of reading ‘why doesn’t the team do what I (the fan) think needs to be done?’

    01/08/2014 at 1:50 PM #36276
    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    Grey… to elaborate on your point about the meaningless layup during the “Clock game” at the end… you’re right… we’re playing the clock and shooting free throws…

    That said… ND was getting down the floor and to the basket with a shot in less than 10 seconds… everytime during the last two minutes…

    I’ll give you one quick layup… but on average we GOTT to make them take time off the clock and we GOTT to average around 20 seconds per defensive possession when in the “Clock game”… that automatically means fewer free throws to shoot and fewer free throws required for a win. On offense, the quick easy basket, if a foul is not forthcoming, is then worth the same …. 20 secs off the clock.

    For some teams…. it’s easier to play D than to hold the ball during the “Clock game” …. so you can coach/apply this formula either way… In any case, the logic/formula doesn’t change much. It’s all about those 20 seconds.

    On your other point…. there may or may not be a substantive difference between “what I (the fan) think needs to be done?” and “what the team needs to do to win”…. It all depends on the BBIQ and the playing/coaching experience of the commenter and the reader… I suppose.

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    01/08/2014 at 1:53 PM #36277
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    tjfoose:

    Though technically correct, I think the implied sentiment behind referencing Pitt as a team “at the top of the conference” is a little premature.

    Pitt was (and is) near the top of the conference based on both AP and RPI rankings. So while saying that they’re are at the top of the conference is not final, it is hardly premature.

    BJD:

    If you assume that both Pitt and ND are likely to be in the 30-50 range (as I do), then yeah, the road win is better.

    ND may end up in the top-50 (heck Tenn has moved from 90+ to 40th), but they haven’t gotten close so far. (67th after beating Duke and 90th after losing to State)

    01/08/2014 at 2:08 PM #36279
    Whiteshoes67
    Participant

    ^I agree that “the substitution” was a good one. I’d much rather see a short leash by Gottfried. I disagree with how long it lasted, or that it was the primary engine that led to a win. During that stretch, the margin actually decreased to a scary point, we still didn’t pass the ball inside, and we were bailed out by Turner. Notre Dame meanwhile didn’t capitalize. And we weren’t better on defense for most of that stretch.

    01/08/2014 at 2:30 PM #36284
    bill.onthebeach
    Participant

    ^RE: “a short leash”…
    changing that to a little more polite… “short reins”….

    which begs the question regarding a whole lot of top D1 players all across the country….

    “Don’t you first have to get your horse(s) to ‘like having a bit in their mouth’ ?

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    01/08/2014 at 3:06 PM #36288
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    “When the guards learn how to run this offense and they have Anya, Washington and Freeman to work with on the interior we are going to be very, very, good.”

    ^100% agree. Lot of encouraging signs from last night’s game – not the least of which was the win.

    The team may not reach peak/optimal half-court efficiency this season, but they are taking steps in the right direction. I have to keep reminding myself it is by and large a young and inexperienced team. Everyone is learning – I think it will get better.

    01/08/2014 at 3:38 PM #36290
    Fastback68
    Participant

    The under 6 second Pitt layup is just another teachable moment for Gott. The Pitt players crossed and vandy switched while Cat did not. If that ia what coach wanted, then so be it. I just remember looking at my son and asking how did that happen from the .49 to .43 second mark. Now this is based on alcohol soaked gray matter recall which means faces and timing may be way off but that’s how I remember it. My nerves would appreciate it if State had a 30 point lead late in the UVA game. Provided we aren’t giving up four second 2s or 3s. Solid win and it was fun to watch minus the stress.

    01/08/2014 at 3:39 PM #36291
    Rick
    Keymaster

    I am not 100% sure on the press. I wonder if running the top of the press wore Buckets out some.

    Gott did good managing the PGs time.
    We won a game in which Buckets was not buckets. Good to see.

    01/08/2014 at 4:24 PM #36295
    Whiteshoes67
    Participant

    ^I figured we’d see a slight drop in Buckets’s average once conference play started. I’m guessing he hovers around the 18-20 a night range from here out. As many have observed, he’s not as effective against smaller, quicker 3’s, particularly late in the shot clock, and his 3-point stroke isn’t great. I’d like to see us post him up more, especially when he’s at the four. We’re seeing less and less of that, but we saw it a few times last night.

    01/08/2014 at 5:14 PM #36305
    eas
    Participant

    WBS is scared to take a shot anymore and usually passes on Many open 3 attempts. I know his shot isn’t the best but he has to find confidence somewhere. If he could find 8-10 points every night I think we could be really good. An extra 10 points on top of Cat’s points could make a big difference in the W/L category. WBS has lost that flair with the ball he was so good at in the past. He is timid and scared of his shot as well as his “And 1 mixtape” passes. Spice it up WBS and do what you are good at.

    I still think there is a place for him and Cat on the floor at the same time. Especially with a zone Defense on our part.

    01/08/2014 at 7:20 PM #36313
    choppack1
    Participant

    Our RPI went up to 59….great news. I suspect the RPI balances out on losing to a team ranked 20-45 @ home vs. Beating a team ranked 50-99 on the road.

    Hell one of the dirty not-so-secrets of the RPI (if you look at the formula) is the boost of a road win and the punishment of a road loss.

    01/08/2014 at 10:28 PM #36318
    vtpackfan
    Participant

    Mizzou loses at home to Georgia. We really missed a good opportunity there to win against a highly overrated team. I can see 6 games on our schedule that can count in the “signature” column and our next one is the Wahoos @ home. Our OOC didn’t pan out as well as it could have (or should have). We really have to be opportunistic in any of the six top 50 RPI’s. I don’t think there are a lot of bad loss land mines other than BC or VPI. Regardless we have to just put forth 40 minutes of great energy each game and show a fearless side in late game action. Those two ingredients are enough to deliver enough W’s to be a NCAA selection discussion.

    01/08/2014 at 11:18 PM #36320
    vtpackfan
    Participant

    *NC in last place of Swoffarts new ACC. Imagine what a joke they would be w/o Paige pulling a couple one man shows early in the year.

    01/09/2014 at 1:34 AM #36324
    MrPlywood
    Participant

    ^Amazing what happens when they actually have to abide by [some] rules. McDonald shouldn’t be playing either, not that he helped much tonight.

    Here’s more national coverage for uNX courtesy of our good friend Mary Willingham:

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/us/ncaa-athletes-reading-scores/index.html

    She says:

    “As a graduate student at UNC-Greensboro, Willingham researched the reading levels of 183 UNC-Chapel Hill athletes who played football or basketball from 2004 to 2012. She found that 60% read between fourth- and eighth-grade levels. Between 8% and 10% read below a third-grade level.
    “So what are the classes they are going to take to get a degree here? You cannot come here with a third-, fourth- or fifth-grade education and get a degree here,” she told CNN.

    Yet somehow these dudes graduated? The onion is being peeled back one layer at a time.

    01/09/2014 at 7:21 AM #36327
    howlie
    Participant

    What in the world does

    W B S

    stand for?

    01/09/2014 at 9:40 AM #36336
    Alpha Wolf
    Keymaster

    ^ White Boy Scott. BJD can probably explain the provenance of the nickname from last year.

    I have to say that I am a bit taken aback at the negativity shown in the comments here towards Cat Barber. Anyone who expected a true freshman to not mistakes — especially at times when the rest of team is not doing a lot to help him out — makes me wonder. Hell, Corchiani made some blundersome errors his freshman year. One of them cost us a game at then-horrible Wake Forest. He learned and became a Wolfpack legend, and from my point of view, Cat Barber has every chance to do the same.

    Given that he’s barely into conference season in his freshman year, I think he’s doing pretty well. At times he plays like a freshman and does silly things, but at others, he plays more like he’s at the end of his sophomore year. He sure as heck kept Notre Dame in check at the end of the game with his calm and accurate free throw tosses. Without them, we might be in a far different mood.

    As for Tyler Lewis, he came out like he was on a mission, and it’s about time he showed that fire in his belly. He seemed to be pouting a lot and not giving full effort in a lot of games last month, and to see the old Tyler is a breath of fresh air.

    01/09/2014 at 9:47 AM #36338
    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Cat is going to make mistakes. He is also a difference maker. You have to take some bad with all the good, and hope he continues to learn and improve as the year goes on.

    01/09/2014 at 10:01 AM #36342
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    ^^ Actually, WBS is “the Wee Baby Seamus” (Archer reference). And all due credit to Wufpacker for this fine meme.

    KH = King Hippo (Anya)
    BSW – Black Scott Wood (Turner)
    Buckets = Warren (via Rick)

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