Coach D, you have us so confused

The following entry was originally published on November 30th.

I don’t even know what the best format to write this post would be. I’ve heard so many different points and counter points about Coach D, this team and the staff as a whole that I don’t know what to think so I’ll write them all out with a few facts and maybe you all can help me decipher what the hell to think.

Point – TOB left this team without any talent.
Taking a look at the recruiting rankings a few comparable programs from 2008 – 2013, which would be an entire class plus a redshirt year you’ll see some interesting numbers:

Baylor Currently #9 & 9 – 1 in Big 12
2013 – 31
2012 – 45
2011 – 46
2010 – 39
2009 – 55
2008 – 51
Average class ranking of 42.83

Missouri Currently #5 & 10-1 in SEC
2008 – 25
2009 – 40
2010 – 21
2011 – 48
2012 – 31
2013 – 41
Average class ranking of 34.33

LouisvilleCurrently ranked #20 & 10-1 in AAC
2008 – 55
2009 – 77
2010 – 48
2011 – 29
2012 – 42
2013 – 52
Average Class ranking of 50.5

NC State – Currently unranked 3-9 in ACC
2008 – 31
2009 – 52
2010 – 34
2011 – 87
2012 – 53
2013 – 47
Average class ranking of 50.6

Validity – Questionable at best This is a small sample but you can see that recruiting, while important, isn’t the whole story or my small sampling of schools are a bunch of outliers who are out performing their rankings. We know recruiting is important and these rankings don’t include busts, transfers, or injuries but it is hard for me to believe that teams like Marshall, ECU, Wake Forest, and Duke are that much more talented than us.

Point – Coach D needs time.
Taking a look at the other first year coaches, some who were rumored to be in the running for our position before DD was hired

Sonny Dykes @ Cal: 1 – 11 (1 win being vs Portland State, lost 10 in a row) *Side note, Cal’s average recruiting class is 25.8!!!*
Darrell Hazell @ Purdue: 1 – 10 (currently losing to Indiana would make 10 in a row, 1 win vs Indiana State)
Willie Taggert @ USF: 2 – 9 (beat Cincy and UCONN)
Bret Bielema @ Arkansas: 3-9 (beat Louisiana, So. Miss, Samford, 0-8 in conference)

Validity? – Valid. First year coaching is hard and coaches don’t get fired and leave behind good teams.

Point – We are young
There is no disputing that we are one of the youngest teams in country. Taking a look at the number of returning starters across the country you’ll see very few major conference teams with less returning starters than NC State. Here are the teams with the 5 lowest number of returning starters in the 5 major conferences.

NC State (5 offense/5 defense), Michigan (6 / 5 ), K State (7 / 1), Cal (6 / 5), Florida (6 / 5).

As you can see, all of these teams have had tough years and if you look at the opposite, teams with highest number or returning starters overall they’ve had great years. Teams like FSU with an average recruiting class of 7.5 are able to overcome having only 10 returning starters. Maybe one day we’ll take a deeper look and find the correlation here but not today.

Validity? – 100% valid, it is hard as hell to win with young teams.

Point – WTF Play Calling
There are two areas here that I’ve heard people talking about, the aggressive play calling & the vanilla play calling. While we as a fan base have been yearning for an aggressive play caller, some of the calls this year have even the most die-hard fans scratching their head. Fake punts in particular but going for it at inopportune times have been particular areas of concern. I’ll give Coach D a pass here since I like the aggressive nature and if half of these plays had worked it wouldn’t be an issue. The area that I can not for the life of me understand is what we saw today, 4rth & short and we line up in shotgun/pistol formation. When you have a 6-4, 240lb QB and you need 6 inches on 4rth down. Line up under center and let him Cam Newton his way to a first down. The play-action rollout today was extremely puzzling when a score late in the 3rd would have put us right back in the game.

Point – Coach D doesn’t have a QB to run his system
If you want to see the type of offense that coach D wants to run turn on Auburn or Baylor this year and watch those guys run the ball. I believe it was vs Texas Tech Baylor had 5 running backs with over 100 yards and right now Auburn has 2 100 yard rushers and is tied with #1 Alabama. The offense works, is exciting but does require the right personnel.

Taking a further look at our QBs you’ll see: a converted WR who never started a game at QB, a QB who transferred in with a – 5 INT ratio and was sacked 71 times in 2 previous seasons, a guy who is transferring, 2 walk-ons and a guy who had no other BCS scholarships and chose NC State over Harvard.

Validity?. Valid but coach DD has put a lot of pressure on Jacoby before he’s even taken a snap in a State uniform.

Conclusion
While this was without a doubt one of the most painful seasons I can ever remember, partly because of the results of the field and partly because of the kick in the balls that the #OurState campaign turned out to be, Coach DD needs and deserves time to get the program running the way he wants it. I know it is hard for everyone but we really need to reserve judgement and support the entire staff as they continue to put together a very good first full recruiting class.

PS – I’m completely impressed with the crowd at the State vs Maryland game today. I was expecting an abysmal showing but outside of the lack of students (home for the holiday excuse), there was a very good crowd at Carter Finley today. Good job Packies.

About JackWolf

I'm an unapologetic NC State fan but also consider myself a rational one. Hit me up on twitter if you want to talk @NCStateFootball

'13 Football Dave Doeren Football Recruiting NCS Football

86 Responses to Coach D, you have us so confused

  1. TheCOWDOG 12/03/2013 at 6:17 PM #

    As BBBill would say…

    “Pop!” Whoa Sparty.

    It ain’t bounce-bounce season, quite yet. It’s. feel ’em up, fill it out time.

    Besides half of SFN quit on Gottfried and the club a week ago. Isn’t that right?

    As far as a place to go and discuss ..

    Ask Humpty Dumpty ’bout how that worked out.

  2. TheCOWDOG 12/03/2013 at 6:37 PM #

    I apologize …I meant to say they quit on Gottfried last Spring …Not last week.

    Silly me.

  3. Adventuroo 12/03/2013 at 6:52 PM #

    Regarding all the comments and the logic and understanding that went into them….probably mine included, I offer the following….

    1) It is BUSH’s FAULT (i.e. our W/L record)….or that is what I heard that Robert Gibbs ALWAYS tweets and we KNOW that he is our esteemed WH Ex Mouthpiece.

    2) For the FIRST time, I have come to the realization that there is also COPIOUS amounts of RED KOOL-AID being consumed instead of Black Russians….WHAT a revelation…

    3) Ron Wellman best be saving his BitCoins for purchasing the lease on his WF provided car rather than running out to Jos. A. Banks and scoffing UP on the deals on Black and Gold sports coats, pants, shirts, etc….

    4) TOB’s agent has already communicated his resume and cellphone number to Mr. Wellman……however the WFU President said that he will keep this info on file should Mr. Wellman NOT be involved in the search.

    5) On a similar note, Lee Fowler’s agent has sent Lee’s Resume and the VHF Frequency that he commonly uses whilst on the water. The WFU President was last seen…ROFLHAO….saying that was the FUNNIEST thing that had happened ALL day..

    6) Coach Doeren has asked AD Yow what her favorite Subway Sandwich is and how she likes it prepared. He has also bought 2 each of all of their cookies. He heard that would improve the tone of the upcoming “2013 NCSU Football Season Review” meeting…..and has offered to donate a kidney if being in surgery would conflict with the upcoming meeting…

    7) Obviously it is a SLOW work day….even we retire’ have “Honey DOO” lists….

    BTW…on a serious note…..did anyone see this…..?

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/03/us/seattle-seahawks-earthquake/

    For you techies out there, most occupational safety and industrial hygeniests require TWO LEVEL (ear plugs and ear muffs) hearing protection for anything typically above 125 dB. I can tell you, from personal experience, that a Forging Drop Hammer is a NOISY Critter. Most will around that with some in the 135/140 range.

    http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2013/11/extreme_decibel_levels_give_th.html

    The level was almost 132 dB

    Now why is this germane…..to anything. If there fans in the stadium that work in High Noise occupations, they are probably on an Annual Hearing Monitoring or testing program. When someone’s hearing shows a statistical decline, that employee is interviewed and also “Re-Trained” on proper hearing protection. They are asked the following questions (or similar)…..Have you fired a weapon? Do you drive or have you ridden on a Motorcycle….follow-up….is it a Harley Davidson? Have you attended a Rock Concert? Do you have a custom sound system in your car or are you exposed to one? Now they can add….Have you attended a Seattle Seahawks home game?

    BTW….if the answer to any of the questions is YES, then there are MANY other questions regarding proper hearing protection whilst engaging in that activity…..and records are kept and updated. MOST Workman Compensation (State Agencies) will NOT honor a hearing loss claim if there are repeated and documented behavior that prove that personal negligence…..DON’T blame me…blame the lawyers…..

    Sorry for the bandwidth waste….but this thread is about as educational as the info presented above….

  4. TheCOWDOG 12/03/2013 at 7:10 PM #

    Welp….There goes your bandwidth, Bill.

  5. Adventuroo 12/03/2013 at 8:56 PM #

    CW,

    I apologized, in advance…..I guess it is easier to get forgiveness than to get permission.

    Indiana V. Syracuse – Challenge.
    Jamie Luckie and Karl Hess on the same team. The Carrier Dome’s roof is currently under more stress than any snowfall in Syracuse…..ever recorded….

    Just threw out an Indy player for a FF-2. Didn’t look that bad to me, but KH whistled him OUTTA HERE….

    Game now out of control….as are the officials.

  6. choppack1 12/03/2013 at 10:39 PM #

    Things are what they are…and at this point you can say the following:

    1. He is recruiting better than tob did the last 3 years
    2. He needs more talent if he is going to meet the mediocre mean of our last 3 coaches…all of whom were fired.
    3. We hired a young coach who has never had to build a program. When you hire such a coach you have to be patient. It is common sense that you can’t expect someone who has never done something to do it very well the time.

    That is that. We are operating on faith here kids. Quite frankly, our last 2 coaches did better than the their predecessor did the year before – so maybe this change is for the better. (Like the red Sox falling down 3-0 and one out away from elimination vs. The Yankees.

  7. wolfpup44 12/03/2013 at 10:57 PM #

    Quick note. Just looked at ESPNs top 300 recruits. Many have not committed, but of the ones who had; NC State 0, UNC 3. Clemson, VA, Va Tech, da U, FSU all had commits in the top 300. We need talent. Yow said this guy could recruit. I hope we see something soon. Still have no comfort at QB. The post said that this was one the worst seasons they had experienced. I am 50, did I miss a worse season in the ACC?

  8. Adventuroo 12/03/2013 at 11:25 PM #

    Choppack1,

    I don’t know if I agree with #3. You may have MUCH more insight that I do….but here is what I have read.

    Do some Googling. Look at NIU’s history of FB coaches. Jerry Kill was the coach prior to Doeren. He had a star QB that he used for three seasons. Then he left, quite abruptly and without talking to his team.

    He also took almost all (that was a USA line….I did not research the position coaches) his staff to Minnesota.

    Therefore, Doren inherited a good QB and a good record. But, he had to do the staffing to make it work.

    Whatever talent was in the pipeline from the Kill Era obviously helped in his second season there.

    BUT, if you look at the 2013 record, with some of Doeren’s recruits in key positions, it looks like he did a pretty good job so that his DL/OC/now HC had a pretty good year.

    I, agree, that there is some FAITH in him. However, if you look deeper, IMHO, he seems to all the right ingredients for a good coach.

    He brought SOME, 6 – I think, of his coaches with him. But he must have left Carey some talent also…..or maybe they just had GOOD FOOTBALL TALENT. If you look at their resumes, most were brought in when Coach D had to rebuild the NIU staff that was pretty gutted by Kill’s leaving. BTW….Kill’s record at Minnesota is LESS than stellar. So maybe there was MORE talent at NIU….?

    As I see it, at NIU, he had a winning record; he put together a staff that showed it could win/recruit with the talent that was there.

    So, you take the same coach and most of the staff and he does poorly his first year….Talent seems like the variable that is missing from the equation above.

    At least….that is my perspective. I have read (and posted TOO MUCH) this thread. The more I research and the more I read, the more positive I am on Doeren and think that he will show a lot of improvement next year.

    There is also ONE headline that hit me today. One of Duke’s “secret weapons” this year…..they stayed healthy…

  9. tjfoose1 12/04/2013 at 6:05 AM #

    If NIU was on our 2013 schedule, the game would have been a slightly reduced redux of FSU.

    Jordan Lynch was a RS sophomore backup to Chandler Harnish in DD’s first season at NIU.

  10. tjfoose1 12/04/2013 at 6:26 AM #

    “There is also ONE headline that hit me today. One of Duke’s “secret weapons” this year…..they stayed healthy…”

    I think Cutcliffe would disagree with that. But is all relative. Duke has depth in 2013.

  11. Greywolf 05/15/2015 at 7:50 PM #

    Things are a little slow football wise so I thought I’d take a look back at what the we had to say about Doeren at the end of his first season. I especially enjoyed the “guarantees” that he would fail as a D-1 head coach. With recruiting all but over when he got here, some of us deduced that he could NOT recruit based on what he brought in.

    So for sh!ts and giggles here is our assessment of Doeren after one year.

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