Coach D, you have us so confused

The following entry was originally published on November 30th.

I don’t even know what the best format to write this post would be. I’ve heard so many different points and counter points about Coach D, this team and the staff as a whole that I don’t know what to think so I’ll write them all out with a few facts and maybe you all can help me decipher what the hell to think.

Point – TOB left this team without any talent.
Taking a look at the recruiting rankings a few comparable programs from 2008 – 2013, which would be an entire class plus a redshirt year you’ll see some interesting numbers:

Baylor Currently #9 & 9 – 1 in Big 12
2013 – 31
2012 – 45
2011 – 46
2010 – 39
2009 – 55
2008 – 51
Average class ranking of 42.83

Missouri Currently #5 & 10-1 in SEC
2008 – 25
2009 – 40
2010 – 21
2011 – 48
2012 – 31
2013 – 41
Average class ranking of 34.33

LouisvilleCurrently ranked #20 & 10-1 in AAC
2008 – 55
2009 – 77
2010 – 48
2011 – 29
2012 – 42
2013 – 52
Average Class ranking of 50.5

NC State – Currently unranked 3-9 in ACC
2008 – 31
2009 – 52
2010 – 34
2011 – 87
2012 – 53
2013 – 47
Average class ranking of 50.6

Validity – Questionable at best This is a small sample but you can see that recruiting, while important, isn’t the whole story or my small sampling of schools are a bunch of outliers who are out performing their rankings. We know recruiting is important and these rankings don’t include busts, transfers, or injuries but it is hard for me to believe that teams like Marshall, ECU, Wake Forest, and Duke are that much more talented than us.

Point – Coach D needs time.
Taking a look at the other first year coaches, some who were rumored to be in the running for our position before DD was hired

Sonny Dykes @ Cal: 1 – 11 (1 win being vs Portland State, lost 10 in a row) *Side note, Cal’s average recruiting class is 25.8!!!*
Darrell Hazell @ Purdue: 1 – 10 (currently losing to Indiana would make 10 in a row, 1 win vs Indiana State)
Willie Taggert @ USF: 2 – 9 (beat Cincy and UCONN)
Bret Bielema @ Arkansas: 3-9 (beat Louisiana, So. Miss, Samford, 0-8 in conference)

Validity? – Valid. First year coaching is hard and coaches don’t get fired and leave behind good teams.

Point – We are young
There is no disputing that we are one of the youngest teams in country. Taking a look at the number of returning starters across the country you’ll see very few major conference teams with less returning starters than NC State. Here are the teams with the 5 lowest number of returning starters in the 5 major conferences.

NC State (5 offense/5 defense), Michigan (6 / 5 ), K State (7 / 1), Cal (6 / 5), Florida (6 / 5).

As you can see, all of these teams have had tough years and if you look at the opposite, teams with highest number or returning starters overall they’ve had great years. Teams like FSU with an average recruiting class of 7.5 are able to overcome having only 10 returning starters. Maybe one day we’ll take a deeper look and find the correlation here but not today.

Validity? – 100% valid, it is hard as hell to win with young teams.

Point – WTF Play Calling
There are two areas here that I’ve heard people talking about, the aggressive play calling & the vanilla play calling. While we as a fan base have been yearning for an aggressive play caller, some of the calls this year have even the most die-hard fans scratching their head. Fake punts in particular but going for it at inopportune times have been particular areas of concern. I’ll give Coach D a pass here since I like the aggressive nature and if half of these plays had worked it wouldn’t be an issue. The area that I can not for the life of me understand is what we saw today, 4rth & short and we line up in shotgun/pistol formation. When you have a 6-4, 240lb QB and you need 6 inches on 4rth down. Line up under center and let him Cam Newton his way to a first down. The play-action rollout today was extremely puzzling when a score late in the 3rd would have put us right back in the game.

Point – Coach D doesn’t have a QB to run his system
If you want to see the type of offense that coach D wants to run turn on Auburn or Baylor this year and watch those guys run the ball. I believe it was vs Texas Tech Baylor had 5 running backs with over 100 yards and right now Auburn has 2 100 yard rushers and is tied with #1 Alabama. The offense works, is exciting but does require the right personnel.

Taking a further look at our QBs you’ll see: a converted WR who never started a game at QB, a QB who transferred in with a – 5 INT ratio and was sacked 71 times in 2 previous seasons, a guy who is transferring, 2 walk-ons and a guy who had no other BCS scholarships and chose NC State over Harvard.

Validity?. Valid but coach DD has put a lot of pressure on Jacoby before he’s even taken a snap in a State uniform.

Conclusion
While this was without a doubt one of the most painful seasons I can ever remember, partly because of the results of the field and partly because of the kick in the balls that the #OurState campaign turned out to be, Coach DD needs and deserves time to get the program running the way he wants it. I know it is hard for everyone but we really need to reserve judgement and support the entire staff as they continue to put together a very good first full recruiting class.

PS – I’m completely impressed with the crowd at the State vs Maryland game today. I was expecting an abysmal showing but outside of the lack of students (home for the holiday excuse), there was a very good crowd at Carter Finley today. Good job Packies.

About JackWolf

I'm an unapologetic NC State fan but also consider myself a rational one. Hit me up on twitter if you want to talk @NCStateFootball

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86 Responses to Coach D, you have us so confused

  1. Greywolf 12/02/2013 at 10:48 AM #

    About Burris being beaten… When the QB is running wild, the safeties have to stop the run and are unavailable to double cover the deep threats. Strategy has zero to do with Burris’s coverage. Blame the coverage on our not having 4 & 5* cornerbacks, not on the DC. Burris was there. He just couldn’t make the play. Offensive pass interference being allowed didn’t help his situation. Turning a blind eye to pushing off and grabbing DB’s seemed to be the order of the day. That includes our receivers.

    See COWDOG’S comments for further opinion on this kind of complaint.

  2. Wulfpack 12/02/2013 at 11:24 AM #

    Regarding Auburn, people forget Gus recruited/coached a bunch of those guys as he was only gone a year at Arky State before returning.

    We got issues, that is all I know. Who is to blame, etc is all the non-sense fans speak about when they have just had the worst season in school history. Bottom line is it better improve. We all know that. He knows it, too.

  3. Texpack 12/02/2013 at 1:11 PM #

    Grey,
    You may have a fair point. Our talent may be so bad that there isn’t any possible coverage scheme that will work. I’ll still be looking at the defense a bit more closely than the offense next year.

  4. Greywolf 12/02/2013 at 2:29 PM #

    Texpack,

    I didn’t mean to imply that our talent was “so bad.” Our front line talent was more than adequate but — as Alpha so well detailed it — after we start losing starters to injuries our lack of depth reduced our talent to mediocre. Burris wasn’t the only DB who was being beaten. True freshman Jack Tocho was replaced by #16, Josh Jones, also a true freshman who played very well.

    It wasn’t just that our line couldn’t pass block, they were not mobile enough to move horizontally which is needed to block on the edges. We by necessity had to try to move people out and run up the middle. Once our opponents figured out our limitations, life really got tough for us. Had our linemen been able to move horizontally, running lanes would have opened up for Mitchell.

    We aren’t playing against a bunch of numb-nuts coaches. Grobe, Cutliffe, Fedora, etc., etc., are good coaches and have knowledgeable staff. We were far more victims of good coaching than we were victimized by poor coaching. And yes, I know it looks like we had poor coaching. Some of us might do well to assume we don’t know enough to know the difference.

    Some of us seem to think that all our opponents are inferior to us and their only success comes as a result of our stupidity, inferior talent, etc. One of the TD catches was just a great catch and the other was a very well thrown ball.

    The State Fan Nation is quick to blame and slow to credit — often without accurate facts on which to base our blame and finger pointing. We’ve got all the answers but unfortunately don’t know the questions.

  5. TheCOWDOG 12/02/2013 at 3:17 PM #

    Rather than admit to the obvious …some fans submit to the oblivious, Mr. Grey.

    I must say, there is one that does surprise me…But after all, it’s only an opinion.

    Sarkisian to USC.

  6. Wulfpack 12/02/2013 at 3:57 PM #

    Grobe just resigned at Wake.

  7. TheCOWDOG 12/02/2013 at 4:10 PM #

    Courtesy resignation. Heard about it earlier.

  8. Wulfpack 12/02/2013 at 4:20 PM #

    So Wellman has the audacity to force Grobe out, but he keeps a guy/friend that can’t finish better than 10th. Got it.

    What an idiot Wellman is.

  9. TheCOWDOG 12/02/2013 at 4:24 PM #

    Who will be the first to say it. I got my favorites boxed in an exacta.

  10. packplantpath 12/02/2013 at 7:29 PM #

    Define “it” cowdog. I might be obliged

    🙂

  11. TheCOWDOG 12/02/2013 at 7:58 PM #

    You know me 3P. And you know damned well what IT is.

    …LOL

  12. JasonP 12/03/2013 at 9:16 AM #

    Great news about Grobe. Too bad he didn’t leave sooner. Here’s hoping Wellman hires Bzdelik the sequel for that job and WF takes our place in the Atlantic cellar. Really hope they don’t get Rocco.

  13. graywolf 12/03/2013 at 9:32 AM #

    Rocco is probably Wake’s top pick.

  14. DC_wolf 12/03/2013 at 9:50 AM #

    I, too, now also like our chances to finally win again in W-S. But what a raw deal – Grobe was a great coach & class act. I think he had earned a down year.

  15. Hungwolf 12/03/2013 at 9:59 AM #

    We had a man of integrity, TOB. We were back to going to bowls. We had a great OFC, that was training NFL QBs. I disagreed with TOB firing. Our AD has a bad history of football coaching hires. Our current coach made the comment before the Wake game that he wanted to build a program at NCSU like Jim Grobe had at Wake Forest. WTF? Grobe just resigned and no one tried to talk him out of it after 5 straight losing seasons. Here’s to being like Wake Forest.

  16. 13OT 12/03/2013 at 10:00 AM #

    Maybe Wellman should hire TOB.

    As for Coach D, what could he have done to make this team better? This team was just awful, the worst, at least talent-wise, I’ve ever seen here.

    This was essentially an 0-12 team, and they would have gone 0-12 had they not played Division III-level OOC teams at home in those first 3 games. I don’t think we even came close to winning an ACC game, did we?

    The question, to me, is this: Why aren’t any really talented players, especially those in NC, coming to NC State anymore?

    If we don’t turn this around, we will NEVER again rise to the level of even mediocre, let alone get above that level. It won’t matter who’s coaching if we don’t have any real football players .

  17. Wulfpack 12/03/2013 at 10:14 AM #

    Rocco would be a good hire at Wake. I wonder what will happen at UVA? Bidding war for Rocco in that event? Also wondering if Cutcliffe will be getting even more calls, or if it is a foregone conclusion he is staying at Duke?

    TOB created this mess. Failing to see that is, well, a failure.

    The top talent in this state leaves in droves. That won’t be changing any time soon, if ever. Why wouldn’t you want to play in the SEC if you are a top player?

  18. JasonP 12/03/2013 at 11:11 AM #

    UVA struck out going to the Richmond well with London. Doubt they do it again, but who knows. Would be interesting if they go after Orgeron, but guess they have to fire London first and he’s got a substantial buyout I think.

  19. DC_wolf 12/03/2013 at 11:24 AM #

    If by saying he wanted to build a program at NCSU like Grobe had at Wake Forest Doeren meant win the ACC.. I’m all for that. Good luck w/ that, boss.

  20. Mike 12/03/2013 at 12:04 PM #

    Wulfpack asked why we are not getting top talent in this state? TOB ran it away. He had no relationship with the NC HS coaches and that relationship plays a big role in recruiting.

    Perfect example – Marshall from Raleigh, one of the top backs in the country ended up at UGA. He had no interest in playing here in Raleigh directly because of TOB. I wont go into the 2nd hand story I heard about the recruiting visit but needless to say we blew it on him.

    DD is working the local coaches to get back in their good graces, but it takes time to undo the damage from the past.

  21. 1.21 Jigawatts 12/03/2013 at 2:49 PM #

    I blame the loses on all the fans who weren’t in their seats at the start of the second half.

    🙂

  22. bill.onthebeach 12/03/2013 at 4:30 PM #

    The MOST CONFUSING thing on the board is why anyone is still talking about this football season….

    Instead …. if there was somewhere* to do so… we could be talking about that UNx professor who was in court TODAY for those classes he got paid to teach which never met.

    OR….

    We could be talking about WHO this was….
    http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10072897/cremated-remains-found-auburn-tigers-jordan-hare-stadium

    J.Hoffa ?
    B.Byrant ?
    The Grey Ghost ?

    OR….

    We could be talking about the VANDwagon up in E.Lansing tomorrow night v. #1 MichiganState and the rest of the ACC/Big10 bball games…

    OR

    We could be BCS and NCAA bashing as unless there’s a big upset or a whole lot of $$$ moves in the ‘right’ direction — it’s gonna be tOSU vs. the NOLES for the championship.

    IDK….

  23. rtpack24 12/03/2013 at 4:51 PM #

    Bielema was never a candidate for our coaching position. Jacoby got beat out at QB at Florida because the other guy was a better runner. Next year will be interesting to say the least. I believe the jury is obviously out but I saw nothing this year that impressed me.

  24. MrPlywood 12/03/2013 at 5:56 PM #

    @ b.o.t.b. – State plays NW at PNC tomorrow night, yes? unx is going to get stomped by Sparty.

    #vandwagon

  25. Greywolf 12/03/2013 at 6:17 PM #

    Things I saw that impressed me:

    70+ yard TD run by Shadrack Thorton and other hard runs
    70+ yd TD run by Brian Underwood and other long runs
    2 punts returned TDs by Rashaad Smith
    2 INTs by FR Jack Tocho
    Jamichael Ramos taking hits and holding on after catches
    Freshmen receivers with talent
    Freshmen DB’s who will be very good
    Players who refused to quit after losing 8 games

    I’m not an elite expert so I might be easy to impress.

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