Are NC State fans bad fans? [UPDATE]

College Football Dave Doeren105

It’s been brought to my attention (h/t Greywolf) that what was presented in the N&O/Charlotte Observer wasn’t entirely what Doeren said at the news conference pertaining to the fans and the second half. Here’s the full statement by Doeren:

“The Walk of Champions was really special. I know our players were excited and I want to thank the fans for that,” Doeren said at his weekly press conference Monday. “The first half attendance was outstanding. I’d like to issue a challenge to them to help us out in the third and fourth quarter.”

“I think this program has a goal of being a national program and to have home games at a place as awesome as ours, with the number of tickets we sell and the passion that our fanbase has, we need them in the seats in the third and fourth quarter to be a great team,” Doeren said. “You win games in the third and fourth quarter. It’s great to start fast with a big crowd, but it’s better to finish with one. I think that’s an advantage we need to gain.

“I’m asking them to change their routine a little bit… come back into the stadium a little earlier and stay a little longer. Support our guys, something we need if our program is going to grow the way everyone wants it to.”

Seeing his entire quote, while it would have changed the tone of my opinion piece, it does not change my opinion or the reasoning behind my opinion. Maybe a different tone to my article would have had the desired effect of people actually debating the merits of my opinion and reasoning instead of attacking me and those who shared my opinion.

For instance, do you disagree that average price for tickets to NC State are ranked in the Top 25 in the entire country for college football? Do you disagree that the product on the field has been, for the majority, mediocre during the last 10 years? Do you disagree that the level of non-con opponents has declined over the years? Do you disagree that fans (paying customers) should be able to decide how they choose to spend their time at the games? Do you disagree that under the circumstances of this past weekend (weather, opponent, first game) that maybe it was a bad PR move for Doeren to make this statement? What if he had issued the challenge before the first game? What if he had issued the challenge halfway through the season after having a sample size more than ONE?

As I stated in the article football games are entertainment. If a show on TV isn’t entertaining people will choose to watch something else or do something else. If you step back and look at attending football games as more than just watching it live, you’ll see it’s an event to the majority of people who attend. They come to see friends, spend time with them, enjoy watching entertaining football, enjoy watching quality football against quality opponents. They aren’t lemmings who blindly support the team just because it’s their team. Fans attend games for a myriad of reasons but mostly they want to enjoy themselves and have a good time. If so many people feel the experience INSIDE the stadium (quality of NC State football team, quality of opponent, fan experience in their seats and on the concourse) is worse than the experience OUTSIDE the stadium then can you blame them, who have spent their disposable income and precious free time, to seek out the best place to spend it?

Here’s the question everyone should be asking, If roughly half the fans are not in their seats after halftime then what can the University do to bring them back faster or keep people from leaving? Why is it on the fans? They paid the ticket. They showed up to the game. What are they getting for their money?

Maybe you feel everyone MUST be in their seats at the start of the second half because you’re there? Maybe the answer is eliminating the halftime pass-outs? Maybe we should have re-education classes for ticket buyers so they can learn the proper way of attending games and be true fans? Maybe we should have Seat Monitors to record who’s in their seats? Maybe a system where they redistribute the tickets of those untrue fans to those who will follow the rules of being a fan?

Maybe you feel everyone should be able to spend their time as they see fit, considering they did spend their own money to buy the tickets and some driving hours away to be there. Maybe the University could plan ahead and put cooling/misting stations for games where there’s a high chance of high heat? That might keep people around longer. Maybe use that big giant screen in the endzone for more than deafening people with annoying commercials? Maybe have the marching band play something other than MUZAK? I’m not talking Drumline here but for the longest time I can’t find Valium that works better than our own marching band.

My point is argue the merits of my opinion, don’t get bent out of shape over the tone or just read the headline and attack. Speaking of the headlines, did I use quotes in my headline? Did it grab your attention to read the article?

As Sgt. Hulka would say, “Lighten up Francis.”

********ORIGINAL POST***********************************************

I’m not a big opinion writer, I usually let statistics do the talking for me because I can get a little over emotional but when I saw this article in the N&O I felt I needed to say something. (FYI, a heads up, I just wrote the entire article, read it, and yes I probably got a little too emotional about it but I don’t how else to say it) I understand this is Coach Doeren’s first game at NC State, this is mostly coachspeak to the fans, and he likely never heard of us before Yow came calling for a new coach, so this is as much directed at any coach, not just Doeren, who wants to call out NC State fans publically…think before you speak:

Doeren thanked the fans for their support during the pregame “Walk of Champions” and in the first half but said there needs to be more bodies in the seats in the second half.

“The passion that our fan base has, we need them to be in the seats in the third and fourth quarter to be a great team,” Doeren said on Monday at his weekly news conference.

“You win big games in the third and fourth quarter. It’s great to start fast with a big crowd but it’s better to finish with one. That’s an advantage that we need to gain.”

Too many times I’ve heard coaches complain about fans not showing up early or not coming back for the start of the second half, we especially heard this from TOB. NC State fans have put up with a lot of crap from local media to head coaches to athletic directors (present AD excluded) telling us how ungrateful we are or how part of the reason we’re not great is because we aren’t doing our part. Guess what, we haven’t been the reason we aren’t a great team. In fact I say NC State fans have been the only thing keeping us from being the doormats of the ACC because of our vocal presence and financial support. NC State fans always show up for games, we come early and IF you bring us a big game we’re always there to the end, just ask Florida State last year, or Clemson the year before, or heck even Boston College during Amato’s miserable final season, not to mention non-cons like South Carolina and Pittsburgh in 09, Louisville 07, Ohio State 04, Texas Tech 03, South Carolina 99, Syracuse 98. Even if the game isn’t big time we are there. The only exceptions to the rules are the horrible entry processes over the past several years, to which our students will decide to all try to enter the stadium at the same time going through 1 gate or miserable weather, just like we experienced this past weekend. I wasn’t personally there but I was there in 2007 against Clemson when it was even hotter and we were getting our butts handed to us. It was hot and miserable, with no relief from the sun and sold out of water before halftime. Needless to say my family and I beat feet to the car and drove home, where I was sick for the rest of the day due to the heat. One person who gets NC State fans is Yow:

N.C. State athletic director Debbie Yow said Monday that Doeren has not asked her to change the policy. Yow said the heat (temperatures were in the high 80s) was more of a problem on Saturday than the halftime policy.

Yow said the school prefers to schedule games at night early in the season to avoid such scenarios, and will play Saturday’s game against Richmond at 6 p.m., but that the ACC’s television contract was the reason the game was scheduled earlier.

“It was brutally hot with a 12:30 start,” Yow said Monday. “I understand why Coach D would want our fans to be there and they usually are.”

I’m not trying to bash on Doeren, I think he is exactly what we need to get off mediocre, my point is Doeren really should have said nothing, especially since he’s only experienced 1 game in Carter-Finley. It was 12:30 on a scorching hot day in August against, let’s be honest here, a no name program Louisiana Tech. If Doeren wants butts in the seats come the start of the second half then schedule people who are worth watching the boys in Red/White play if the TV gods are going to dictate we play a non-con before 6 in September. Yes I know he had nothing to do with our current schedule but I remember reading his philosophy on non-conference scheduling is at most 1 named team a year. I hate to be the guy to reveal this to coaches but football is En-ter-tain-ment. You are the WWE. You’re the circus. You’re a Monster Truck Rally. If you don’t give people something entertaining to watch we’ll find something else to do and excuse us fans who chose to partake in the one thing we have had that’s been a positive the last umpteen years…tailgating. In case anyone at NC State hasn’t figured it out yet, tailgating is one of the main things that separates us from our fellow ACC brethren. What other schools in the ACC, besides the “football schools”, can put on the atmosphere we currently have outside of Carter-Finley?

There aren’t many fan bases out there who have given financially, all the time being told we need money in order to be a champion, and received only complaints of the fans in return. Forbes did an article about the average cost per ticket for each school. Guess what?!? NC State is in the Top 25 in something:

A total of 10 teams not ranked in the Top 25 by the AP are on the list of most expensive average home game tickets. The leader among the non-ranked teams is Iowa, with an average price of $166. Other non-ranked teams on the list include Washington ($151), Mississippi State ($146), NC State ($118) and Syracuse ($114).

21. Oklahoma State ($122)
22. NC State ($118)
23. West Virginia ($116)
24. Syracuse ($114)
25. Kansas State ($114)

Between the LifeTime Rights for seats, WPC dues, and Ticket Prices, I think it’s safe to say even the average NC State fan has given both his time and money and seen nothing but mediocrity for our return on “investment”.

Here’s the bottom line, if the product on the field is worth sitting in 90+ degree temperatures for 3+ hours then you’ll have the people there. We’ve proven that time and time again…we’ll be there. Until that time, can I make a suggestion to any coach out there that wants to take shots at their paying customers? Think before you speak.

Full Disclosure: I’ve been a season ticket holder for 15 years, a LTR holder for about half that time. When I attend games I tailgate for a few hours before kickoff, in my seats 30 minutes before kickoff, stay for halftime even though my reserved spot is about 5 minutes walking away, and usually stay to the end.

About 1.21 Jigawatts

Class of '98, Mechanical Engineer, State fan since arriving on campus and it's been a painful ride ever since. I live by the Law of NC State Fandom, "For every Elation there is an equal and opposite Frustration."

College Football Dave Doeren

105 Responses to Are NC State fans bad fans? [UPDATE]

  1. 1.21 Jigawatts 09/05/2013 at 10:51 AM #

    Grey,

    I’m not sure if people have picked up on this but I’m one of the one’s that stay in their seats at halftime and there until the end for the majority of games. It’s my choice of how I spend my time at the game, just as I support others choices in how they spend their time. Would I like to see a stadium full from 30 minutes before kickoff until after the game ends? You bet!! Every school wants that, even the schools that win championships.

    I agree with you to a point. How many times do you see games where large numbers of people leave at the half and never return? What I personally see are people taking their time to return, getting stuck trying to get back inside, and it takes a good 10 minutes after the half starts before they all are back in their seats. That is a normal game, they do return, just not as fast as others would like. If it’s a blowout people are going to leave before the game ends, I don’t care what school it is or what sport is being played.

    Abnormal games, like this past Saturday, you have a situation where people are choosing not to return for many different reasons. Last time I checked, this happens too at “Football Schools” where they already are champions.

    My point is there are things the University can do to win people back in or try to keep them inside, without having to reject passouts.

    Even though the article was originally generated because of reading his comments/call out/challenge, the article is not solely focused on just Doeren. Sure I think it was poor timing but the crux of the article is about how much people pay, have paid, to attend an entertainment event, while getting little in return and have chosen to not rush back in (or leave early) while being told if we just give more, or cheer harder, or stay in our seats, THEN we’ll be able to become a championship team. Cry Wolf.

    I get that some people live or die by NC State sports, they’ll support them no matter what and chastise those who don’t hyperventilate when a teenager mentions “Wolfpack”. Problem is not everyone who attends games is that way, they love the team, they support the team, they’ll cheer the team on to victory, they just want to have a good time while doing it.

    I’ve rambled on enough. Very well thought out counterpoints btw.

  2. 1.21 Jigawatts 09/05/2013 at 11:05 AM #

    44,

    I never said he couldn’t say what was on his mind. All I said was think before you speak, then said why, first game, weather, no name opponent, previous “call outs” of fans from former coaches, AD, and the media.

    I stand by my comment: “In fact I say NC State fans have been the only thing keeping us from being the doormats of the ACC because of our vocal presence and financial support.”

    If the fans who attend games (not alumni who just give money) didn’t buy into LTRs, commit to season tickets every year, show up to the games to give us the great atmosphere that we’ve had the past 13 years, then where do you think we’d have been during that time? I never said our fans make us champions, it’s the coaches and players who do that but if the argument is it’s the fans that help seal the deal for recruits then we had to have had a hand in what we’ve had in the past. If what we’ve had is mediocre results with the fans contribution so far then what would we have if they didn’t give in time and money?

    I also never said because the average ticket price is one of the highest in the nation that equates to Great Fans, I used it to show that continuing to pay top dollar for ticket and getting mediocre results does will result in large amounts of people seeking to spend their precious time where they feel they are getting the most return for their entertainment.

    Never once have I compared us to a SEC/B12 football school or said we were better than FSU, Clemson, or VT. I compared us to our peers in the ACC, Heaven forbid I use that as a point of reference.

  3. gumby 09/05/2013 at 11:53 AM #

    I stuck it out until halfway through the 3rd quarter, but the health of my 7 and 9 year-old kids in that heat was more important than any obtuse measure of being a “true fan.” Anyone who has a problem with that can osculate my gluteus maximus.

  4. MP 09/05/2013 at 12:47 PM #

    Reading this post and the comments, I’m kind of glad I’m not a season ticket holder… I find enough to bitch about from a distance.

  5. tjfoose1 09/05/2013 at 2:27 PM #

    ^ Now THAT’s a true NC State fan.

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