Are NC State fans bad fans? [UPDATE]

College Football Dave Doeren105

It’s been brought to my attention (h/t Greywolf) that what was presented in the N&O/Charlotte Observer wasn’t entirely what Doeren said at the news conference pertaining to the fans and the second half. Here’s the full statement by Doeren:

“The Walk of Champions was really special. I know our players were excited and I want to thank the fans for that,” Doeren said at his weekly press conference Monday. “The first half attendance was outstanding. I’d like to issue a challenge to them to help us out in the third and fourth quarter.”

“I think this program has a goal of being a national program and to have home games at a place as awesome as ours, with the number of tickets we sell and the passion that our fanbase has, we need them in the seats in the third and fourth quarter to be a great team,” Doeren said. “You win games in the third and fourth quarter. It’s great to start fast with a big crowd, but it’s better to finish with one. I think that’s an advantage we need to gain.

“I’m asking them to change their routine a little bit… come back into the stadium a little earlier and stay a little longer. Support our guys, something we need if our program is going to grow the way everyone wants it to.”

Seeing his entire quote, while it would have changed the tone of my opinion piece, it does not change my opinion or the reasoning behind my opinion. Maybe a different tone to my article would have had the desired effect of people actually debating the merits of my opinion and reasoning instead of attacking me and those who shared my opinion.

For instance, do you disagree that average price for tickets to NC State are ranked in the Top 25 in the entire country for college football? Do you disagree that the product on the field has been, for the majority, mediocre during the last 10 years? Do you disagree that the level of non-con opponents has declined over the years? Do you disagree that fans (paying customers) should be able to decide how they choose to spend their time at the games? Do you disagree that under the circumstances of this past weekend (weather, opponent, first game) that maybe it was a bad PR move for Doeren to make this statement? What if he had issued the challenge before the first game? What if he had issued the challenge halfway through the season after having a sample size more than ONE?

As I stated in the article football games are entertainment. If a show on TV isn’t entertaining people will choose to watch something else or do something else. If you step back and look at attending football games as more than just watching it live, you’ll see it’s an event to the majority of people who attend. They come to see friends, spend time with them, enjoy watching entertaining football, enjoy watching quality football against quality opponents. They aren’t lemmings who blindly support the team just because it’s their team. Fans attend games for a myriad of reasons but mostly they want to enjoy themselves and have a good time. If so many people feel the experience INSIDE the stadium (quality of NC State football team, quality of opponent, fan experience in their seats and on the concourse) is worse than the experience OUTSIDE the stadium then can you blame them, who have spent their disposable income and precious free time, to seek out the best place to spend it?

Here’s the question everyone should be asking, If roughly half the fans are not in their seats after halftime then what can the University do to bring them back faster or keep people from leaving? Why is it on the fans? They paid the ticket. They showed up to the game. What are they getting for their money?

Maybe you feel everyone MUST be in their seats at the start of the second half because you’re there? Maybe the answer is eliminating the halftime pass-outs? Maybe we should have re-education classes for ticket buyers so they can learn the proper way of attending games and be true fans? Maybe we should have Seat Monitors to record who’s in their seats? Maybe a system where they redistribute the tickets of those untrue fans to those who will follow the rules of being a fan?

Maybe you feel everyone should be able to spend their time as they see fit, considering they did spend their own money to buy the tickets and some driving hours away to be there. Maybe the University could plan ahead and put cooling/misting stations for games where there’s a high chance of high heat? That might keep people around longer. Maybe use that big giant screen in the endzone for more than deafening people with annoying commercials? Maybe have the marching band play something other than MUZAK? I’m not talking Drumline here but for the longest time I can’t find Valium that works better than our own marching band.

My point is argue the merits of my opinion, don’t get bent out of shape over the tone or just read the headline and attack. Speaking of the headlines, did I use quotes in my headline? Did it grab your attention to read the article?

As Sgt. Hulka would say, “Lighten up Francis.”

********ORIGINAL POST***********************************************

I’m not a big opinion writer, I usually let statistics do the talking for me because I can get a little over emotional but when I saw this article in the N&O I felt I needed to say something. (FYI, a heads up, I just wrote the entire article, read it, and yes I probably got a little too emotional about it but I don’t how else to say it) I understand this is Coach Doeren’s first game at NC State, this is mostly coachspeak to the fans, and he likely never heard of us before Yow came calling for a new coach, so this is as much directed at any coach, not just Doeren, who wants to call out NC State fans publically…think before you speak:

Doeren thanked the fans for their support during the pregame “Walk of Champions” and in the first half but said there needs to be more bodies in the seats in the second half.

“The passion that our fan base has, we need them to be in the seats in the third and fourth quarter to be a great team,” Doeren said on Monday at his weekly news conference.

“You win big games in the third and fourth quarter. It’s great to start fast with a big crowd but it’s better to finish with one. That’s an advantage that we need to gain.”

Too many times I’ve heard coaches complain about fans not showing up early or not coming back for the start of the second half, we especially heard this from TOB. NC State fans have put up with a lot of crap from local media to head coaches to athletic directors (present AD excluded) telling us how ungrateful we are or how part of the reason we’re not great is because we aren’t doing our part. Guess what, we haven’t been the reason we aren’t a great team. In fact I say NC State fans have been the only thing keeping us from being the doormats of the ACC because of our vocal presence and financial support. NC State fans always show up for games, we come early and IF you bring us a big game we’re always there to the end, just ask Florida State last year, or Clemson the year before, or heck even Boston College during Amato’s miserable final season, not to mention non-cons like South Carolina and Pittsburgh in 09, Louisville 07, Ohio State 04, Texas Tech 03, South Carolina 99, Syracuse 98. Even if the game isn’t big time we are there. The only exceptions to the rules are the horrible entry processes over the past several years, to which our students will decide to all try to enter the stadium at the same time going through 1 gate or miserable weather, just like we experienced this past weekend. I wasn’t personally there but I was there in 2007 against Clemson when it was even hotter and we were getting our butts handed to us. It was hot and miserable, with no relief from the sun and sold out of water before halftime. Needless to say my family and I beat feet to the car and drove home, where I was sick for the rest of the day due to the heat. One person who gets NC State fans is Yow:

N.C. State athletic director Debbie Yow said Monday that Doeren has not asked her to change the policy. Yow said the heat (temperatures were in the high 80s) was more of a problem on Saturday than the halftime policy.

Yow said the school prefers to schedule games at night early in the season to avoid such scenarios, and will play Saturday’s game against Richmond at 6 p.m., but that the ACC’s television contract was the reason the game was scheduled earlier.

“It was brutally hot with a 12:30 start,” Yow said Monday. “I understand why Coach D would want our fans to be there and they usually are.”

I’m not trying to bash on Doeren, I think he is exactly what we need to get off mediocre, my point is Doeren really should have said nothing, especially since he’s only experienced 1 game in Carter-Finley. It was 12:30 on a scorching hot day in August against, let’s be honest here, a no name program Louisiana Tech. If Doeren wants butts in the seats come the start of the second half then schedule people who are worth watching the boys in Red/White play if the TV gods are going to dictate we play a non-con before 6 in September. Yes I know he had nothing to do with our current schedule but I remember reading his philosophy on non-conference scheduling is at most 1 named team a year. I hate to be the guy to reveal this to coaches but football is En-ter-tain-ment. You are the WWE. You’re the circus. You’re a Monster Truck Rally. If you don’t give people something entertaining to watch we’ll find something else to do and excuse us fans who chose to partake in the one thing we have had that’s been a positive the last umpteen years…tailgating. In case anyone at NC State hasn’t figured it out yet, tailgating is one of the main things that separates us from our fellow ACC brethren. What other schools in the ACC, besides the “football schools”, can put on the atmosphere we currently have outside of Carter-Finley?

There aren’t many fan bases out there who have given financially, all the time being told we need money in order to be a champion, and received only complaints of the fans in return. Forbes did an article about the average cost per ticket for each school. Guess what?!? NC State is in the Top 25 in something:

A total of 10 teams not ranked in the Top 25 by the AP are on the list of most expensive average home game tickets. The leader among the non-ranked teams is Iowa, with an average price of $166. Other non-ranked teams on the list include Washington ($151), Mississippi State ($146), NC State ($118) and Syracuse ($114).

21. Oklahoma State ($122)
22. NC State ($118)
23. West Virginia ($116)
24. Syracuse ($114)
25. Kansas State ($114)

Between the LifeTime Rights for seats, WPC dues, and Ticket Prices, I think it’s safe to say even the average NC State fan has given both his time and money and seen nothing but mediocrity for our return on “investment”.

Here’s the bottom line, if the product on the field is worth sitting in 90+ degree temperatures for 3+ hours then you’ll have the people there. We’ve proven that time and time again…we’ll be there. Until that time, can I make a suggestion to any coach out there that wants to take shots at their paying customers? Think before you speak.

Full Disclosure: I’ve been a season ticket holder for 15 years, a LTR holder for about half that time. When I attend games I tailgate for a few hours before kickoff, in my seats 30 minutes before kickoff, stay for halftime even though my reserved spot is about 5 minutes walking away, and usually stay to the end.

About 1.21 Jigawatts

Class of '98, Mechanical Engineer, State fan since arriving on campus and it's been a painful ride ever since. I live by the Law of NC State Fandom, "For every Elation there is an equal and opposite Frustration."

College Football Dave Doeren

105 Responses to Are NC State fans bad fans? [UPDATE]

  1. packalum44 09/04/2013 at 11:35 AM #

    My post was simply meant to disprove the fallacy that NC State fans are somehow “special”. We are only good football fans when compared to UNC. That is not anything to be proud of.

    You can measure fandom many different ways. If I were a sports writer, I would come up with a simply algebraic formula and weight various factors such as…average ticket price per BCS school / Conference Game / D II school. I would look at average home attendance in notional terms and percentage terms (having 80k at a 90k stadium is better than filling up the Carter of 59k but both warrant merit into the equation). I would look at both notional amounts of donations and % of fans that give back.

    $$$ would have the highest weight in the formula.

    In football it is safe to say we would not crack the top 25. Do we have the potential to? Maybe…but realistically we need BCS bowls etc…Oregon didn’t have any fans 10 years ago.

    From my perspective, the comments were just coach speak. I bet $ he didn’t mean to offend anyone or insult our fandom – I didn’t think anything of it.

    On TV the stadium did look sad and empty during the 2nd half. DD would prefer to have a full house…after all he does have recruits at the game and watching on TV. Every detail matters to him. Will having full stadiums turn our program around? Of course not. Will it help at the margin…maybe – it certainly can’t hurt. No doubt we have swayed a recruit or two over the years from attending UNC or Wake, but not UGA/Clemson, based solely on a better gameday experience….let’s not give up that slight advantage. Will asking fans to stick around help? Not noticeably. Will having sustained success? YES.

    Also, sell frickin’ beer in the stadium. Problem solved.

  2. EdMar 09/04/2013 at 11:55 AM #

    I don’t have a problem with what Coach D said and it would be very cool to have a full house by the time the players come in and for the stadium to remain full until the end. I’m not sure that last Saturday was a good time to “call us out”.
    I made it in time to go to the walk of champions at ~ 10:00AM that means that towards the end of the game we had been in the sun for close to 6 hrs. We did not leave early but, I had to leave during each quarter to fill our water bottles at the nearest water fountain (not close at all, I refuse to buy many $3.50 bottles of water). My wife did have to go find shade for a few minutes before the half and before the end of the game. I even suggested to her to go back to the Lobby of the PNC and get in some cool air for a while.
    I saw many families with small children having to leave to get in the shade and I’m sure there were many older people that made the right decision by getting out the sun.

  3. redisgood 09/04/2013 at 12:48 PM #

    I have no problem with what the coach said. He demands excellence from his players, and wants the same thing from the fans. That’s why he is going to bring this program to where we have hoped for years it would get to.

    And not to knock the commenter who said DD just doesn’t know how we do things down here – do you mean produce mediocre football?

  4. NCStatefan 09/04/2013 at 1:15 PM #

    Cool your jets big guy. Coach Doeren wasn’t saying NC State fans are bad. He is right that it gives the team an advantage in the 3rd and 4th quarter and we need to do what we can to capatilize on that. You got to like a coach doing all he can to make sure that happens in the future.

  5. old13 09/04/2013 at 1:20 PM #

    1. First, I’m sick and tired of reading about this mole hill that IMHO State fans have turned into Mt. Everest! It’s bad PR any way you look at it!

    2. DD did not “call out” the fans! Understanding that he was hired to take us to the next level, he saw something that relates to that and made note of it, voicing a challenge (REQUEST) to the fans, that is, the fans who clamor to bring the program to national prominence, to help out! There was nothing in his comments derogatory of us fans. And what he said concerning fans helping to build the program are absolutely true IMO! Maybe the timing of, and/or platform he used for making his remarks could have been better. But I applaud what he said!

    3. I watched the game on my computer from west of the Mississippi and I must say, when the cameras panned the stadium at the beginning of the second half, I felt very disappointed in view of all the great comments that have come out in recent months about what great fans Wolfpackers are. I felt that the fans had let DD and the team down by showing less support than that reputation would cause one to expect. BUT after I learned about the heat in the stadium, my feelings were tempered and I can certainly understand how that would impact many fans. Still, I have to wonder what impression it left on non-NCSU people viewing the game who weren’t aware of those circumstances. (BTW that was the same heat that DD coached the game in and the players played in. So I’m sure he was aware of it.)

    4. Peripheral comments I’ve seen concerning fan conditions at C-F seem to me to need much more attention than what DD said. Things I’ve seen about $5.50 for a bottle of water and ice shortages at C-F to me border on irresponsible for games played in summer heat. Maybe we should be sending suggestions to NCSU about these types of things and quit wasting energy bitching about DD speaking the truth.

    5. See Item 1 above!

  6. ChiefJoJo 09/04/2013 at 1:34 PM #

    DD nor anyone else ever said NC State has “bad fans” so this post seems like an overreaction to put it in those terms. I, for one, agree with coach. Our fans and home field advantage can be very good. But as PackAlum44 revealed above, we like to think we have a special fan base or gameday experience but the numbers say otherwise. If we want to be a consistent top 25 football program, the fans must improve too, and no, heat shouldn’t be an excuse. Guess what, there were a bunch of other schools that played games in the heat too.

    When I lived in Raleigh and attended games, I always stayed for the entire game. It always annoyed me that so many people left and never came back at halftime, even for ACC games. Extended halftime tailgating is a “tradition” that has carried through some mediocre years which still pervades the football culture at State. Well, if we want to play with the big boys, that culture must change.

  7. eas 09/04/2013 at 1:55 PM #

    This has been blown way out of proportion for a comment made with only good intentions. Was it bad timing on a blistering hot day and his 1st game as coach….Maybe. He has a good point and knows what a difference the crowd makes on a game (support, TV aspect, recruits etc). I can’t fault a coach for trying to express creating a better football atmosphere. As evidence from this weekend the staff is motivated to bring a positive result for our program.

    That being said it was hot as heck and the opponent was not the biggest either. The comment may have been better suited after a bigger game but don’t fault the guy for trying to improve the atmosphere. He just got an early start with his concern. Although NOT apples to apples (climate controlled vs. the elements) we have the same issues with the big money seats in the PNC being filled.

    Either way this has snow balled from something that was said with good intent (IMHO). Bad timing with the weather, opponent, first game tailgate fun and the press haven’t helped. If only he could have started his fan support comment with
    “I know it was very hot and the first game but”…..

    Lets move on. This Coaching staff is something to be excited about and the team is motivated.

  8. packpowerfan 09/04/2013 at 2:22 PM #

    If what I’m hearing is true (heat similar to that godawful Clemson game), then at least people realized that their health is more valuable than a game.

    …says the guy who has done an ungodly amount of damage to his liver over a game…

  9. MrPlywood 09/04/2013 at 2:26 PM #

    At the end of the next game DD and the team can applaud the fans that are still around and maybe smooth all the ruffled feathers.

    And DY can order a few of these:

    http://www.cloudmister.com/
    http://www.anytime-rentals.com/cool.html

    Or get some engineering students on the case and build some. Misting is a cool (pun intended) phenomenon. I don’t know that it would make sense to outfit the entire stadium, but just having some walk-through stations would make a big difference.

  10. tjfoose1 09/04/2013 at 2:28 PM #

    I would like for the seats to be full at the beginning of each half.

    That’s about as far as I’ll go. It’s your time, your money, your prerogative.

    I’m often late myself due to the poor management of our queue lines.

    Ranking State fans by total monies donated is a poor model. We are thin at the top (no T Bone Pickens, Phil Knight, no Bill Gates) while the average fan gives plenty.

    If you think you have the right, and TELL me when I HAVE to be in my seat, I’ll tell you to F’ off. That’s to my fellow fans, not the coach.

    The coach simply made an uninformed, though good intentioned, clumsy request.

    I find this whole thing getting rather funny, especially when considering the amount of folks who think they have the right and know how to tell coaches how to do their job. Does DD have the right to be offended when all the living room Knute Rockne’s start telling him how to do his job?

    Jigs, and many others, make good points. My comments are directed more to the fringes and those “true fans” referenced by Wuf’.

    I suggest less starch in your choice of under shorts.

  11. compsciwolf 09/04/2013 at 2:30 PM #

    To comment on 13OT’s post on TV game times, since I haven’t seen it addressed elsewhere:

    I suppose NCSU could have said no to the game being televised, but I’m not sure how much leverage NCSU has, even if it’s on the ACC Network (read: Raycom). That is all part of the TV package negotiated by the ACC (and the history of that has been covered on this site in great detail).

    If Raycom is broadcasting the game it means ESPN has already passed on it. Not sure where the ESPN online feed falls in the pecking order, if it’s before or after Raycom. It was likely broadcast the game on Raycom or don’t broadcast the game at all.

    I can’t fault DY agreeing to have the game broadcast, even though it did mean a noon game.

  12. tjfoose1 09/04/2013 at 2:33 PM #

    Noon TV game > 6pm and no TV. Maybe not for those in attendance, but definitely bigger picture wise.

  13. Wolfgarden 09/04/2013 at 3:21 PM #

    Well all I am trying to say is: How about a thanks to those of us who did stay the entire game…the comments about leaving, not coming back for the 3rd or 4th quarters are okay with me…perhaps some could be better supporters. (Heat Health Permitting) People who leave early because of rain should they be made to feel bad? As a football and State Fan Loyalist I stay in spite of weather. If one has to leave because of other planned events, well okay (why would you plan something else on game day) but our games have value and we should be valued so just thank the ones that stayed and cheered also DD. That’s all…want to say something about those who left and did not come back well that’s a prerogative DD has.

  14. budfox88 09/04/2013 at 3:37 PM #

    “Sorry, but you’re not going to get sympathy from very many. It would be financially irresponsible to do anything other than sell as many season tickets as possible.”

    Sorry VaWolf82, I think you’re the one outnumbered. When you push out the little guy, things never work out quite as expected. What is more important…a sellout, or a full stadium? I have my opinion, but you know where this is going. You’re right about one thing though…you bet your a$$ it’s all about the money, so you’ll see more people buying season tix to get the games they want to see and no-show the rest. And the game lineups in the minipaks…well would YOU buy that crap? No one here is in the 8th grade so we don’t need sympathy, what we need is some balance so the little guy isn’t completely abandoned. If you think that’s financially irresponsible, then I hope I’m wrong about what I think happens to clubs that subscribe to that philosophy.

  15. budfox88 09/04/2013 at 3:48 PM #

    DD is fantastic, and I support him 100%. I’d rather have a coach speak from the heart and tell the truth, even if it stings a little. We have to raise the bar to his level of expectation…a height we are not accustomed to!

  16. Adventuroo 09/04/2013 at 3:55 PM #

    I’m all for adding misters…..I was in a mega one in Vegas many years ago in August. Best Wet T Shirt viewing I have ever had….and this was outside one of the hotels….where you stand in line to see on of the “sidewalk shows”. My wife threatened to put blinders on me and said that I was suffering from EBPO (Eye Ball Pop Outiitis). She usually does not notice females or their attire (or lack thereof), but this time she did.

    I will be happy to contribute resources to help construct same as long as I can run the “mister” valves. Might not keep student in the stands, but they could return refreshed and cool….

  17. VaWolf82 09/04/2013 at 4:02 PM #

    What is more important…a sellout, or a full stadium?

    Are you saying that the stadium won’t be full for a big game unless you have a chance to buy that one-game ticket?

    How is saving you a ticket for a conference game going to improve attendance for the non-conference, little sisters?

  18. budfox88 09/04/2013 at 4:50 PM #

    VaWolf, CF will no doubt be full for the big games (conf, rivals, ranked, etc) but with expansion and divisons now, some of the games are not as interesting, and it will take some getting used to IMO, to fill the stands at all the games. Again, I don’t buy one game tix. I buy the minipaks (3 or 4 games), at least I did when they mixed in some good rival games with the not-so games in the paks. I cd use my points to get very good seats buying minipaks, and always got a game to UNC and/or other conf game included! This year, all crap games in the 3 game pak, and only 1 good conf game in the 4 game pak, and no UNC or ECU! That’s the problem. They won’t sell those paks, and there will be empty seats. Along with the cherry pickers who DO buy season tix to get the good games…I think the capacity crowd (except for the rival conf games) has gone the way of the bagphone. I hope I’m wrong. Either way for me, it’s unfortunate, but it’s financially irresponsible for me to put any more money into it for crap games, and I’m not paying for 4 season tix when I know logistically I can only go to 3 or 4 games at the most. They need to make the minipaks more attractive! I doubt I’m alone in this line of thinking.

  19. NCSUWANNABE 09/04/2013 at 4:59 PM #

    First time posting. Small disclaimer: Not an NCSU grad, student or booster. Just a lifetime NCSU fan, through the good and the bad, born and raised just down the road from campus. Fond memories of the few BB games that I was able to attend with my dad in Reynolds, and even fewer memories of the games that I was able to attend with him as a child at Carter Finley. I can count the times that I’ve had the privelage to watch NCSU football in person on 1 hand. With all that said–whether any of you like his comments or not, he’s right. 80 degrees in the sun, with no water, made people leave? The game time temperature at in College Station, Texas for the Texas A&M game was 103! They carried people out on stretchers and in ambulances. That’s dedictaion and commitment to team. Whether you like what DD said or not he’s right. To be a top program, takes passionate fans, players and staff. It doesn;t start with one and the rest fall in line, we all jump on board tegether and ride the hell out of the thing. Maybe my inability to attend these events as frquently as so many of you do,makes me appreciate them even more, but, even with that, I can’t understand why in the world people leave, good or bad. With the exception of caring for the elderly or small children, there is no good reason, save a medical emergency or the odd ball exception. Go to a VA Tech home game, or Alabama, or any other big time prrgram and see what percentage of people leave half way through. Are we going to wait until the games are close? Are we going to wait until we’re ranked and have something to lose? Congrats to all of you that can afford season tickets and parking passes and lifetime rights, etc. You’ve obviosuly done very well for yourself and can go whenever you want to. But this guy, this guy has had the pleasure of walking from his car parked on the side of Hillsboro street to take in a game that someone gave him tickets to. His soaking wet butt sat in the rain too, because he was too dumb to check a weather forcast before hand. Seems like some of you have fprgotten what an honer it is to be able to go and cheer for your school. Sorry for the rant, but if any of you would rather leave at half time, I’d be glad to take your tickets and cheer your alma mater on till the end.

  20. Greywolf 09/04/2013 at 6:39 PM #

    We’re playing our own version of “Gossip.” Doeren said something, the reporter reported what he “heard,” jigi wrote his opinion of what the reporter wrote and now we the SFNers are voicing our opinion of what jigs wrote and what other SFNers have said.

    Should we be surprised that what Doeren said is not what we heard? Here’s the “calling out” as it’s been called:

    “I think this program has a goal of being a national program and to have home games at a place as awesome as ours, with the number of tickets we sell and the passion that our fanbase has, we need them in the seats in the third and fourth quarter to be a great team,” Doeren said. “You win games in the third and fourth quarter. It’s great to start fast with a big crowd, but it’s better to finish with one. I think that’s an advantage we need to gain.

    “I’m asking them to change their routine a little bit… come back into the stadium a little earlier and stay a little longer. Support our guys, something we need if our program is going to grow the way everyone wants it to.”

    If what Doeren actually said pisses somebody off, I’d bet my hat, ass and overcoat that ‘somebody’ wears handicapped blue clothes to games on Saturday.

  21. bsly 09/05/2013 at 8:34 AM #

    DD told the truth and people dont like it, that’s all this is. I understand people want to be able to do what they want to do with their time and money but let’s be real here…State fans are not the “great” fans they try to say they are. They leave early if games seem to be out of hand just like every other ACC fan group. What’s more important to our fan base? Being in the seats at the startof each half of football or staying out by the car partying/drinking a beer? If we were that great a fan base dont you think more people would stay in their seats or make it a priority to be back for the start of play? Yes, we have alot of fans of the school that are there for a good time. But how many real fans of football do we have that dont want to miss a second of play if they dont have to. From my time at games most people are just there to have a good time. We seem to have very few fans that are really into football. Maybe I’m just ultra competitive and I have a different perspective because of that.

  22. VaWolf82 09/05/2013 at 9:21 AM #

    This year, all crap games in the 3 game pak, and only 1 good conf game in the 4 game pak, and no UNC or ECU! That’s the problem. They won’t sell those paks, and there will be empty seats.

    If you’re correct and people buy season tickets to only attend a few games, then wouldn’t that trend be MORE prevalent with mini-packs?

    It would be silly to include UNC or ECU in the mini-packs since those tickets are guaranteed sales at full face value. If State fans won’t buy them, then the opponents’ fans will.

    You should certainly do what you feel makes the most sense for you and your family. But you shouldn’t be surprised when the AD does what it thinks is best for the school…ie generate the most revenue possible.

  23. Greywolf 09/05/2013 at 9:26 AM #

    @Jigs

    1. I think it’s unfortunate that all the valid negative points got ‘co-mingled’ with Doeren’s request for fan support on game day in the second half. And that’s all it was. It was not criticism of the fans, not judgment of how we spend our money, not any of that.

    2. Why not rephrase your question from “Are NC State fans bad fans?” to “Are NC State fans great fans?” The answer to both questions is arguably, ”No.”

    3. In Doeren’s mind he was brought here to win championships and he very gently — more or less — pointed out that “fleeing the scene” at the half and not returning is insufficient fan support for championship teams. He wasn’t chastising us; he was asking for our help in producing what WE SAY WE WANT.

    4. Some famous coach, perhaps Bobby Knight, said, “Everybody wants to play on a championship team, nobody wants to practice.” In the case of “not bad” State fans, everybody wants to ‘say’ their team is a champion, nobody wants to stop partying long enough to cheer the team to victory.

    5. Frankly IMNSHO this was an opportunity to rally behind our new coach, not flex our internet muscles to make him wrong for asking for our support by changing our game day routine. We are assuming that this is the first notice by Doeren that State fans leave the stadium like rats on a sinking ship if things aren’t going well for us. He and others have to have noticed on game film they study the east stands are more or less 20% empty at the end of the game.

  24. packalum44 09/05/2013 at 10:42 AM #

    The initial write up was based on the premise that NC State fans are “good” fans and that the new sheriff in town should hush up until he realizes just how good we are.

    “In fact I say NC State fans have been the only thing keeping us from being the doormats of the ACC because of our vocal presence and financial support.”

    The above assertion of “good” fans, I think the key premise to the entire article, was proven to be a fallacy by the facts that I shared in my earlier post. To be honest, I use to buy into that fallacy until the past several years when I actually looked at our endowment (both academic/athletics) and Dr. Woodson shared the paltry percentage of alumni who give back. We actually are awful alumni on average as measure by what % of alumni give back and the amounts given.

    The top 25 ticket price is a good fact. It makes me proud. But we have to be careful extrapolating 1 fact into grandiose assertions of great fandom and patting each other on the back. Moreover you need to put that figure into context…we have a small stadium (approx. 45th in college) and hence the average ticket price will be more b/c 1) supply is restricted and 2) the average seat is better than a big stadium.

    Another significant point made is…well we are good fans relative to the crappy product on the field. I don’t deny that but that is a fact I personally am not proud of.

    NC State fans have a relatively high ceiling but realistically it will take years and BCS games for us to build fan “depth” comparable to the national teams. Until then our war chant can be, well, at least we’re better than our baby blue rival, so damn it let’s beat them out on the recruiting trail for the in-state kids and pray we found a Bowden type of coach who will build us up into a power. We have the demographic advantages, we just haven’t had exceptional leadership…well, ever.

    Are we bad fans? No….are we good fans? If you had a sound methodology based on my previous post, we’d probably be 30 – 50th in country. We donate the least amount of money in the ACC but we are only behind FL St, Clemson, VA Tech in football attendance and atmosphere. We are behind 8/9 SEC teams, half of Big 10 and 12 teams in football attendance……is that good…or mediocre?

  25. Khan 09/05/2013 at 10:48 AM #

    Seems like we deal with this “issue” every year. I can’t really see any good reason to give it any serious attention, from blog writing, to tweeting, to public comments by staff, to online articles…. All it does is create an environment for knuckleheads in the media to harp on it in a negative way, shining an even greater spotlight on something that’s not a real problem.

    Fans who spend money and give half of their day to come to a game should be able to come and go as they please within the bounds of the policy in place. If you don’t like the policy in place, eliminate the pass outs. Otherwise, develop a winning program, and I’ll guarantee you the culture will change, though it will likely be a slow process.

    When university officials are asked about fans not showing up or whatever, the only thing that needs to be said is that our fans are awesome and we believe that as we get this program where we want it to be, that will take care of itself. That’s it.

    Doran can say whatever he wants on the subject, of course, but it would be best not to even get into it. Just recruit, win, and build a championship caliber program, and the “fan issue” will will no longer be an issue.

    The alternative is to keep discussing it year after year and listen to fold and blowvies in the afternoon keep making dumb comments about it.

    The fans are fine.

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