Are NC State fans bad fans? [UPDATE]

College Football Dave Doeren105

It’s been brought to my attention (h/t Greywolf) that what was presented in the N&O/Charlotte Observer wasn’t entirely what Doeren said at the news conference pertaining to the fans and the second half. Here’s the full statement by Doeren:

“The Walk of Champions was really special. I know our players were excited and I want to thank the fans for that,” Doeren said at his weekly press conference Monday. “The first half attendance was outstanding. I’d like to issue a challenge to them to help us out in the third and fourth quarter.”

“I think this program has a goal of being a national program and to have home games at a place as awesome as ours, with the number of tickets we sell and the passion that our fanbase has, we need them in the seats in the third and fourth quarter to be a great team,” Doeren said. “You win games in the third and fourth quarter. It’s great to start fast with a big crowd, but it’s better to finish with one. I think that’s an advantage we need to gain.

“I’m asking them to change their routine a little bit… come back into the stadium a little earlier and stay a little longer. Support our guys, something we need if our program is going to grow the way everyone wants it to.”

Seeing his entire quote, while it would have changed the tone of my opinion piece, it does not change my opinion or the reasoning behind my opinion. Maybe a different tone to my article would have had the desired effect of people actually debating the merits of my opinion and reasoning instead of attacking me and those who shared my opinion.

For instance, do you disagree that average price for tickets to NC State are ranked in the Top 25 in the entire country for college football? Do you disagree that the product on the field has been, for the majority, mediocre during the last 10 years? Do you disagree that the level of non-con opponents has declined over the years? Do you disagree that fans (paying customers) should be able to decide how they choose to spend their time at the games? Do you disagree that under the circumstances of this past weekend (weather, opponent, first game) that maybe it was a bad PR move for Doeren to make this statement? What if he had issued the challenge before the first game? What if he had issued the challenge halfway through the season after having a sample size more than ONE?

As I stated in the article football games are entertainment. If a show on TV isn’t entertaining people will choose to watch something else or do something else. If you step back and look at attending football games as more than just watching it live, you’ll see it’s an event to the majority of people who attend. They come to see friends, spend time with them, enjoy watching entertaining football, enjoy watching quality football against quality opponents. They aren’t lemmings who blindly support the team just because it’s their team. Fans attend games for a myriad of reasons but mostly they want to enjoy themselves and have a good time. If so many people feel the experience INSIDE the stadium (quality of NC State football team, quality of opponent, fan experience in their seats and on the concourse) is worse than the experience OUTSIDE the stadium then can you blame them, who have spent their disposable income and precious free time, to seek out the best place to spend it?

Here’s the question everyone should be asking, If roughly half the fans are not in their seats after halftime then what can the University do to bring them back faster or keep people from leaving? Why is it on the fans? They paid the ticket. They showed up to the game. What are they getting for their money?

Maybe you feel everyone MUST be in their seats at the start of the second half because you’re there? Maybe the answer is eliminating the halftime pass-outs? Maybe we should have re-education classes for ticket buyers so they can learn the proper way of attending games and be true fans? Maybe we should have Seat Monitors to record who’s in their seats? Maybe a system where they redistribute the tickets of those untrue fans to those who will follow the rules of being a fan?

Maybe you feel everyone should be able to spend their time as they see fit, considering they did spend their own money to buy the tickets and some driving hours away to be there. Maybe the University could plan ahead and put cooling/misting stations for games where there’s a high chance of high heat? That might keep people around longer. Maybe use that big giant screen in the endzone for more than deafening people with annoying commercials? Maybe have the marching band play something other than MUZAK? I’m not talking Drumline here but for the longest time I can’t find Valium that works better than our own marching band.

My point is argue the merits of my opinion, don’t get bent out of shape over the tone or just read the headline and attack. Speaking of the headlines, did I use quotes in my headline? Did it grab your attention to read the article?

As Sgt. Hulka would say, “Lighten up Francis.”

********ORIGINAL POST***********************************************

I’m not a big opinion writer, I usually let statistics do the talking for me because I can get a little over emotional but when I saw this article in the N&O I felt I needed to say something. (FYI, a heads up, I just wrote the entire article, read it, and yes I probably got a little too emotional about it but I don’t how else to say it) I understand this is Coach Doeren’s first game at NC State, this is mostly coachspeak to the fans, and he likely never heard of us before Yow came calling for a new coach, so this is as much directed at any coach, not just Doeren, who wants to call out NC State fans publically…think before you speak:

Doeren thanked the fans for their support during the pregame “Walk of Champions” and in the first half but said there needs to be more bodies in the seats in the second half.

“The passion that our fan base has, we need them to be in the seats in the third and fourth quarter to be a great team,” Doeren said on Monday at his weekly news conference.

“You win big games in the third and fourth quarter. It’s great to start fast with a big crowd but it’s better to finish with one. That’s an advantage that we need to gain.”

Too many times I’ve heard coaches complain about fans not showing up early or not coming back for the start of the second half, we especially heard this from TOB. NC State fans have put up with a lot of crap from local media to head coaches to athletic directors (present AD excluded) telling us how ungrateful we are or how part of the reason we’re not great is because we aren’t doing our part. Guess what, we haven’t been the reason we aren’t a great team. In fact I say NC State fans have been the only thing keeping us from being the doormats of the ACC because of our vocal presence and financial support. NC State fans always show up for games, we come early and IF you bring us a big game we’re always there to the end, just ask Florida State last year, or Clemson the year before, or heck even Boston College during Amato’s miserable final season, not to mention non-cons like South Carolina and Pittsburgh in 09, Louisville 07, Ohio State 04, Texas Tech 03, South Carolina 99, Syracuse 98. Even if the game isn’t big time we are there. The only exceptions to the rules are the horrible entry processes over the past several years, to which our students will decide to all try to enter the stadium at the same time going through 1 gate or miserable weather, just like we experienced this past weekend. I wasn’t personally there but I was there in 2007 against Clemson when it was even hotter and we were getting our butts handed to us. It was hot and miserable, with no relief from the sun and sold out of water before halftime. Needless to say my family and I beat feet to the car and drove home, where I was sick for the rest of the day due to the heat. One person who gets NC State fans is Yow:

N.C. State athletic director Debbie Yow said Monday that Doeren has not asked her to change the policy. Yow said the heat (temperatures were in the high 80s) was more of a problem on Saturday than the halftime policy.

Yow said the school prefers to schedule games at night early in the season to avoid such scenarios, and will play Saturday’s game against Richmond at 6 p.m., but that the ACC’s television contract was the reason the game was scheduled earlier.

“It was brutally hot with a 12:30 start,” Yow said Monday. “I understand why Coach D would want our fans to be there and they usually are.”

I’m not trying to bash on Doeren, I think he is exactly what we need to get off mediocre, my point is Doeren really should have said nothing, especially since he’s only experienced 1 game in Carter-Finley. It was 12:30 on a scorching hot day in August against, let’s be honest here, a no name program Louisiana Tech. If Doeren wants butts in the seats come the start of the second half then schedule people who are worth watching the boys in Red/White play if the TV gods are going to dictate we play a non-con before 6 in September. Yes I know he had nothing to do with our current schedule but I remember reading his philosophy on non-conference scheduling is at most 1 named team a year. I hate to be the guy to reveal this to coaches but football is En-ter-tain-ment. You are the WWE. You’re the circus. You’re a Monster Truck Rally. If you don’t give people something entertaining to watch we’ll find something else to do and excuse us fans who chose to partake in the one thing we have had that’s been a positive the last umpteen years…tailgating. In case anyone at NC State hasn’t figured it out yet, tailgating is one of the main things that separates us from our fellow ACC brethren. What other schools in the ACC, besides the “football schools”, can put on the atmosphere we currently have outside of Carter-Finley?

There aren’t many fan bases out there who have given financially, all the time being told we need money in order to be a champion, and received only complaints of the fans in return. Forbes did an article about the average cost per ticket for each school. Guess what?!? NC State is in the Top 25 in something:

A total of 10 teams not ranked in the Top 25 by the AP are on the list of most expensive average home game tickets. The leader among the non-ranked teams is Iowa, with an average price of $166. Other non-ranked teams on the list include Washington ($151), Mississippi State ($146), NC State ($118) and Syracuse ($114).

21. Oklahoma State ($122)
22. NC State ($118)
23. West Virginia ($116)
24. Syracuse ($114)
25. Kansas State ($114)

Between the LifeTime Rights for seats, WPC dues, and Ticket Prices, I think it’s safe to say even the average NC State fan has given both his time and money and seen nothing but mediocrity for our return on “investment”.

Here’s the bottom line, if the product on the field is worth sitting in 90+ degree temperatures for 3+ hours then you’ll have the people there. We’ve proven that time and time again…we’ll be there. Until that time, can I make a suggestion to any coach out there that wants to take shots at their paying customers? Think before you speak.

Full Disclosure: I’ve been a season ticket holder for 15 years, a LTR holder for about half that time. When I attend games I tailgate for a few hours before kickoff, in my seats 30 minutes before kickoff, stay for halftime even though my reserved spot is about 5 minutes walking away, and usually stay to the end.

About 1.21 Jigawatts

Class of '98, Mechanical Engineer, State fan since arriving on campus and it's been a painful ride ever since. I live by the Law of NC State Fandom, "For every Elation there is an equal and opposite Frustration."

College Football Dave Doeren

105 Responses to Are NC State fans bad fans? [UPDATE]

  1. BJD95 09/03/2013 at 3:20 PM #

    This is exactly what I would have said if I were much more intelligent and a better writer. Well done, good sir.

    I commented specifically on how happy I was that DD focused on the positive aspects of the gameday crowd after the LT game. A few days later…and he reverses that wise course of action.

    It’s almost never wise to crap on (however nicely) your own fans, but it’s certainly not right to do so after ONE WIN over Skip Freaking Holtz.

    DY has it exactly right.

    And if you want to call something out, look at the woefully over-intrusive and under-staffed stadium security and other fan-unfiendly policies.

  2. TheCOWDOG 09/03/2013 at 3:34 PM #

    Jigs…Everyone …It was a message sent for something down the line.

    You, me, everyone, it’s water off a duck’s ass.

    That said, I will never, ever, entertain even showing up for FCS games. That makes me a good fan.

    Hey, I’m back on the walkways for the directional DIs by the end of first series, and by kickoff in the good ones.

    I saw a lot of hurtin’ peeps Saturday. SoCal Beach Blondie was one of them. She did not return.

    I have no problem with Coach’s statement at all.

    But, and in my opinion LT doesn’t fit this mold, don’t feed us garbage games and expect the stadium to be packed at all times.

  3. wilmwolf80 09/03/2013 at 3:54 PM #

    Besides the aforementioned issues of putting a quality product on the field against quality opponents, I would suggest that if coach and the administration are concerned about fans staying in the stadium, they need to look at improving the fan experience inside the stadium.

    For an excruciatingly hot game like this one, fan health and safety needs to be at the forefront. We need misting areas, more shade in the concourse, and more free water.

    For other games, we need a reason to stay in our seats. Let’s have some better halftime entertainment. More fan interaction on the field with contests and things during halftime, not during TV timeouts. Better music. Better commercials on the video board. More events honoring NC State traditions and great players.

    Look, as long as there is no alcohol sold inside, people are always going to go out and drink. It is a part of football. I’ve always thought that the serving of bottled sodas with cups of ice was a tacit acknowledgement by the administration that a good number of people are going to drink even during the game. You aren’t going to be able to change that behavior.

    For me personally, I love tailgating, but once I’m in the stadium, I’m not leaving until I am ready to go home. I’m not walking all the way back to the tailgate spot just to have a beer and then hoof it back to the game. Just not something I’m interested in, but many others are. Whatever floats your boat.

    Coach D need look no further than our fantastic facilities and new ones to come to know what kind of fan support he has. Saying this after the first game of the year is always going to rub people the wrong way, and IMHO he needs to issue a new statement ASAP to put this issue to bed.

  4. PoppaJohn 09/03/2013 at 4:04 PM #

    Hats off to Yow – she continues to impress.

  5. TruthBKnown Returns 09/03/2013 at 4:13 PM #

    Sure, a lot of people left in the 3rd qtr (probably due to the heat more than anything). But coach should probably be able to tell we have some awesome fan support by the mere fact that we showed up in such big numbers… right smack in the middle of the last 3-day holiday weekend of the year.

    I think he should have waited until he saw a trend before passing judgment on us.

    For the record, I didn’t leave early. Never do. But my seats are under the upper deck (shaded). If my seats had been out in the heat, I might have left early, too.

  6. Virginia Wolf 09/03/2013 at 4:13 PM #

    Yes, you have expressed it well for us fans. Improve the competition and we’ll be in the seats from flip of the coin to the final seconds. I remember games when the stadium was full and fans stayed or 30 minutes cheering te team. We’d be there win or lose. Big cheer for DY! She understands the imporance of the fan and would never be critical. Go Pack!!!!

  7. 13OT 09/03/2013 at 4:29 PM #

    It was one of the worst days in C-F in years from a weather standpoint- not as bad as the noon Clemson game a few years ago, but miserable nevertheless. My seats are on the lower level West Side and even with the sun to our side and behind us for 3 quarters, it was tough. East Side fans probably were the majority of the defections. I don’t think I could sit over there for day games in September.

    I have no problem whatsoever with Coach Doeren’s views.

    There is a solution to this, and that’s to stop scheduling noon-hour games during the first 4 or 5 weeks of the season. The local network is by far the worst venue because their objective seems to be to drag the games out forever. Since they’re not pushed like ESPN or Fox to move the game along because there’s another game to follow, the locals make sure the game lasts forever. During several of the tv timeouts, there was enough time to put the band on the field for a full number and march them off before resuming.

    So my solution is, at least on or before mid-September, no home games starting before the 3:00 hour.

  8. TeufelWolf 09/03/2013 at 4:30 PM #

    Well written; very good points! Me personally, I am like wilmwolf in that once I get there, I’m there until the end. I do not, however, think that after paying for WPC fees, LTRs, parking passes, fan gear, tickets, and ridiculously priced food and drinks that the fans owe anything more than being knowledgeable and respectful of those around them. The rest is up to the school and the team. We, the fans, we the customers aren’t there to entertain the coach and players. They exist to entertain and provide a good experience to the paying customers. Now it’s kind of one of those chicken-and-egg things but…

    Great suggestions above regarding improvments in audio/video, band, music, commercials, spirit-spots, jumbotron games, events, traditions, misting areas, etc… I couldn’t help but feel like a lot of that was lacking this year. I know a lot of people roll their eyes at crituques of those things but they all add up to providing a big-time experience — “Build it and they will come”. Any coach/administration should focus on the things they can control and be slow to criticize the fans, no matter how innocent or subtle.

    At the end of the day, this article (N&O) does absolutely nothing lower my opinion of DD in the slightest I and am very excited about the direction that he and DY have the football program going. This comment is so minor; its the media once again making something out of nothing. Hopefully he will not judge us by our attentence on this one afternoon and we will not judge him by this stupid article.

    GO PACK!!!

  9. BJD95 09/03/2013 at 4:34 PM #

    TV money rules college football and will continue to do so. Period, full stop. We can’t refuse even if we wanted to, unless we wanna rejoin the SoCon.

    But the fans shouldn’t be admonished for not wanting to be tortured. It’s bad enough that season ticket holders have to pay for a ticket to a game they can’t enjoy.

  10. tookandsaid 09/03/2013 at 4:37 PM #

    I totally disagree and understand EXACTLY what Doeren means.

    True fans will be in the stands no matter what – if the team is on the field.

    Think about it – Doeren – at all home games will have potential recruits in the stands. A lot of these kids want to be stars – they want to be famous. They want to go to a school where the game time atmosphere is electric. If NCSU fans are leaving – what kind of impression do you think that leaves on a recruit? I agree scheduling could alter some of this – but not until we have a team (recruiting status) at a level where we can handle the higher caliber team. Schedule tough games at this point – and you will have empty seats due to being blown out by the half – simply because the fans don’t want to watch a beating.

    We need to be there the whole time – cheering on the team – if we ever want to attract high caliber recruits – to make it worth scheduling tough non-conference games

  11. Pack85EE 09/03/2013 at 4:53 PM #

    I left early once. Actually is wasn’t early. I grabbed my pretty young wife’s hand and dragged her onto the stairs for the last play so we could beat the rush. The pass fell incomplete in the endzone and we rushed out with the rest of the crowd. But then the stadium inhaled pulling everyone back to the walls, steps, 10 deep, necks straining, calves flexed on tip toes, I couldn’t see squat. I could only listen. Yea, it was the South Carolina game. Now I don’t leave early, I don’t even rush out. I understand the point but I do wish fans would show up early, be back for 2nd half KO and stay. I know that point was made on an earlier thread and it appears they have taken steps to get the students to change their habits. My son is a freshman this year and he says tickets are by lottery. You increase your lottery chances by checking in early and attending events. So hopefully the students will get there earlier each week.

  12. BJD95 09/03/2013 at 5:01 PM #

    You used to have to get up verrrrrry early in the morning (like 3 or 4 am) to get in line for the best student tickets. THAT was the best system. No IMHO shall be added, this be Gospel truth.

  13. Texpack 09/03/2013 at 5:03 PM #

    85000 in the stands in College Station for a game against Rice and it was 10 degrees hotter than Raleigh. Just kidding. I also think there is a seriousness about excellence associated with DD that Wolfpack Football hasn’t seen since 1979. He only knows one way.

    I really do think early season day games need to be hosted by SU, BC, and Pitt if at all possible.

  14. budfox88 09/03/2013 at 5:05 PM #

    I’ve got a different take. I’ve been paying into the WPC and NCSUAA, as well as other gifts, for nearly 25 years, and this is the first year I couldn’t even GET tickets to ANY good home games. With 2 kids and a two hour ride one way, doesn’t work out financially for me to burn XXXX dollars on 4 seats for maybe a couple of games. Up until this year I could always use my points to get a good minipak, which worked out great. Now, looks like unless you buy season tix or PSL, youre only going to the crap games. Who wants to buy minipak to LaTech, Richmond, and Cent Mich? I started off pissed this season, which really sucks since it looks like it’s gonna be fun to watch DD and co. I realize there’s nothing I can do about it but looks like they sell out season tix to people who wont go to all the games, theyre gonna run into this…empty seats. Some will buy season tix just to goto the games they prefer. If I lived in Raleigh or closer, I would get season tix too!! If they would put better (conf) games in the minipaks I would buy!!! This is purely about money…they would rather sellout season tix for the money, and crap on attendance, than sell a QUALITY MINIPAK!!! My boys will lose in the end since they will not be able to experience rival games. BTW, what the hell are my points good for now? A $140 parking pass for one game?

  15. JohnGalt78 09/03/2013 at 5:11 PM #

    I think this thing is being overblown. This was DD’s first game. He has no clue how we do things here. Give him some time to “get it”.

  16. BJD95 09/03/2013 at 5:17 PM #

    There are ALWAYS tickets for sale on craigslist. Always. It’s very easy to do if you only want to go to a few decent games a year. Depending on supply/demand, you may get a deal, or have to pay extra (when I had season tix – for 8 years – the only times I sold an extra for above face value were when we played Ohio State or the Pie-rats.

  17. BJD95 09/03/2013 at 5:20 PM #

    Yes, this is just his first game. He should know to wait before saying something like that to the media.

    I don’t hold it against him, but it was most certainly not a smart thing to do. Which is why DY responded as she did.

  18. coach13 09/03/2013 at 5:21 PM #

    Debated staying or leaving mid 3rd quarter and the annoying as hell blaring jumbotron decided it for me. I can’t stand it. Never would think that thing could make watching the game there so painful.

  19. ncsubraveheartman 09/03/2013 at 5:34 PM #

    C’mon. The Saturday’s heat was rough but don’t act like State fans aren’t notorious for leaving games early. Look at FSU last year or the Maryland comeback the year before, the Cincinatti game 3 yrs. ago or any game we’re winning by a sizable margin. The aluminum is noticeable after halftime. I remember watching a Nebraska game on TV a few years ago, they were playing a scrub team, up 40 something to something in the teens, late in the season cold game, and all of the 81,000 seat stadium stayed to sing the alma mater. Granted, they were borderline top-10 in the nation, but still…

    Saturday’s circumstances may be an exception, but Doeren’s Challenge is necessary.

  20. budfox88 09/03/2013 at 5:45 PM #

    BJD, so you’re OK with alumni being forced to accept the potluck of craigslist? Not me…can’t plan a family experience around that anyway. The school could simply charge more for minipaks to include some rival games…I would pay for that. And I’ll bet many others would too. I just don’t appreciate being tossed out after all these years for the all-important LSR and season tix holders ONLY. Again, my points (I’m in the top 1/3) should be worth more than some BS non-conf games and a parking pass.

  21. TheAliasTroll 09/03/2013 at 6:00 PM #

    I understand where you guys are coming from wanting to cut him some slack but that little scolding of fans pissed me off.

    First of all, Dave, before you start browbeating the fan base right out of the gate lets see what kind of coach you really are without inheriting an 11-3 team and NFL caliber Jordan Lynch to mop up in the MAC. You need to be focused on your job first and foremost.

    What a really stupid thing to say after one game in the miserable heat against la tech.

  22. Wulfpack 09/03/2013 at 6:20 PM #

    No strong opinions one way or the other. I will say if Doeren isn’t happy with the fan support, there are other places 50 times worse. No, we ain’t Michigan or Wisconsin, but we ain’t chopped liver either. And it was not as hell. Throw in a mediocre directional opponent and it just makes it easier to run for the shade/air conditioning and the ice cold beverages.

  23. Wufpacker 09/03/2013 at 6:25 PM #

    “I totally disagree and understand EXACTLY what Doeren means.

    True fans will be in the stands no matter what – if the team is on the field.”

    Never a good sign when the “True Fans” gauntlet gets thrown down.

  24. TheCOWDOG 09/03/2013 at 6:28 PM #

    Troll…Dude …Was that a brow beating by Doeren? Or, was that just a brow beating by Troll?

    Ah. Such the sensitive family.

    🙂

  25. Wolfgarden 09/03/2013 at 6:42 PM #

    I am a lifetime rights ticket holder (9 of them in all) and all paid for at that. I have been going to NCSU games for more than 28 years. I have contributed mightly to the program (IMHO) I love football and I love NCSU. I Have never ever left a game early…My wife and I are there to the last second…ALWAYS. What about us DD? Forget to thank us for staying?

    The commenter is right: look at your facilities, I and others like us have paid for them. Hot, damm right it was, my wife was concerned about me and my health…but we stuck it out. So we wish ole DD would have given those like us a little more of a nod…don’t you all?

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