‘The most destructive fan base we’ve ever seen’ [Updated 2:30pm]

Big Four Rivals Fans58

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After the college basketball officiating debacle that was also known as the ‘2012 ACC Tournament’ the popular Duke Basketball Report blog (“DBR”) posted an entry that SFN chose not to link for many reasons – most of which was because the quality of the piece was so far below what we expect as minimum standards that we genuinely were concerned that a UNC fan had hacked DBR. (I’m serious…if you dare click on the link we provide in the next paragraph, then I want you to pretend you were reading the piece on a UNC website instead of a Duke site and tell me which frame of reference was more befitting of the piece).

The article – which surely made credible contributors like Al Featherston and Barry Jacobs cringe – is a CLASSIC ‘straw man’ piece that, in addition to being chocked full of factual inaccuracies, takes the unoriginal, tired approach of criticizing NC State fans (what a shock!!) while pretending that many past NC State administrators and coaches had significantly more talent than the national job market has clearly attached to them. The POS piece can be seen by clicking here (if you so choose). The following provides some laughs for you:

It takes a lot of nerve to blame someone else when you screw up that much, but there you have it.

But here’s the rub: people are onto it, and by people, we mean potential future coaches. They understand that State fans have, in the past couple of decades, run off or ruined the careers of Les Robinson (who memorably said that he would step aside because wolves in the same pack shouldn’t fight), Herb Sendek, who at least had State in the tournament on a regular basis, Sidney Lowe, who was one of their own, football coaches Mike O’ Cain and Chuck Amato, and A.D.’s Todd Turner and Lee Fowler.

[snip]

Instead of being thrilled, instead of being happy to finally be heading out of the wilderness, what do you see? Whining about referee conspiracies, about the ACC being out to get them, muttering about finding a new conference because their current one makes life too tough.

It’s amazing.

Things will never get better that way. And if you don’t believe that on face value, look at the worlds Dean Smith and Mike Krzyzewski walked into.

[snip]

Unless of course, they catch on to what they’re about to walk into with the State fan base and decide, like the departed coaches and A.D.’s, they don’t want the headache.

Maybe then State fans can start recruiting players for a different sport.

It’s the most destructive fan base we’ve ever seen.

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There is SO MUCH that is bad and wrong with this condescending, uneducated article that I am not going to take time to correct the mistakes and explain things to an author whose frame of reference clearly does not extend beyond the second Bush’s residence in the White House.

But, I will ask a couple of questions of simple logic without even mentioning the destruction of the career of a great man and coach named Pete Gaudet:

(1) If NC State deserves criticism for actually employing the awesome talents of Lee Fowler, Les Robinson, Herb Sendek, Todd Turner and Mike O’Cain — then what level of criticism does Duke University – and every other school in America – deserve for NEVER hiring these Michelangelos when some of them have been available for hire for more than a decade now?

(2) How do the tenures of the aforementioned past leaders at NC State compare to the tenure of Duke football coaches of the past?

Duke football is perhaps THE WORST job in all of Division One college football; so, what would be reasonable expectations for a fanbase that averages about 15,000 (of their own) fans per game and is consistently one of the worst in America? Surely, a comparison of the reasonable Duke fans to the destructive NC State fans will yield an OBVIOUS advantage for the reasonable Dookies! Let’s see —

Mike O’Cain was allowed to coach at NC State for SEVEN YEARS (while compiling an 0-7 record vs UNC-CH despite being favored in 4 of the 7 contests).

Les Robinson was allowed to become the least successful coach in the history of NC State Basketball for SIX YEARS; and then was PROMOTED to ATHLETICS DIRECTOR and was in Raleigh for more than TEN YEARS!!

Chuck Amato was provided an opportunity to coach at his alma mater for SEVEN YEARS.

Todd Turner was allowed to ruin our athletics program for SEVEN YEARS.

Lee Fowler was allowed to ruin our athletics program for TEN YEARS.

Herb Sendek chose to stay in Raleigh for TEN YEARS en route to becoming the second least successful coach in the last 70 years of NC State basketball before he willfully CHOSE to leave Raleigh for Arizona State.

By comparison:

Tom Harp (1966-1970) was allowed to coach at Duke for FIVE YEARS.

Mike McGee (1971-1978) was allowed to coach at Duke for EIGHT YEARS (less time than Lee Fowler, Herb Sendek and Les Robinson spent in Raleigh).

Red Wilson (1979-1982) was allowed to coach at Duke for FOUR YEARS.

Steve Sloan (1983-1986) was allowed to coach at Duke for FOUR YEARS.

Steve Spurrier (1987-1989) chose to stay in Durham for THREE YEARS en route to becoming the most successful coach in the last 50+ years of Duke football before he willfully CHOSE to leave.

Barry Wilson (1989-1993) was allowed to coach at Duke for FOUR YEARS.

Fred Goldsmith (1994-1999) was allowed to coach at Duke for FIVE YEARS.

Carl Franks (1999-2003) was allowed to coach at Duke for FOUR and a HALF YEARS.

Ted Roof (2003-2007) was allowed to coach at Duke for FOUR and a HALF YEARS.

David Cutcliffe (2007-current) has been allowed to coach at Duke for FOUR YEARS and is now known to be on the proverbial hot-seat.

Yep, can’t anyone with an IQ above functionally retarded now understand why NC State fans deserve criticism for destructive behavior?

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So, with DBR and Duke fans sitting on such a haughty and judgemental perch of reasonableness and support, imagine ‘our’ aghast when ‘we’ woke up this morning to learn that the Duke fanbase melted down so destructively over night after losing in the NCAA Tournament that DBR had to actually take their message forums OFFLINE to protect the fanbase from even more criticism than would typically befall the nation’s most hated college basketball program?!?!

Just let that hypocrisy of judging others for being ‘reasonable’ and ‘destructive’ sink in for a while!

All of this coming from a fan base that is SO SPOILED that their ‘famed’ students abandoned their basketball this year to the point where Duke released unused and unclaimed student basketball tickets for public sales. That’s right, the great “Cameron Crazies” failed to pick up their minuscule allotment of tickets for their rinky-dink 8,000 seat arena (within walking range in the center of campus) for the most consistently successful college basketball program of the last 30 years.

But, State fans are unreasonable!

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You know…I think I will take ‘unreasonable’ when it comes with acknowledgement from almost every local media outlet that NC State fans are by far the most passionate and broadly supportive fans in the area. Imagine the ‘unreasonableness’ of ranking in the Top 20 of national basketball attendance for eleven consecutive years while producing but a SINGLE team that finished the season ranked in the Top 25?! You know…that really IS unreasonable!

If you want to know about the real support of Duke fans, all you need to do is go to a football game at Wallace-Wade Stadium (that NC State fans aren’t filling)..or, take a look at the turnout for their home baseball game yesterday afternoon.

If you want to know about the real support of Duke fans, just wait until Coach K rides into the sunset and all of those band-wagoners who couldn’t get accepted to ECU start looking for their next stop.

Related: Deadspin’s Coach K is a Dick

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Big Four Rivals Fans

58 Responses to ‘The most destructive fan base we’ve ever seen’ [Updated 2:30pm]

  1. WendellPackster 03/17/2012 at 3:17 PM #

    Nail meet hammer. Nice job SFN! I’m glad you guys took the time to research and point out their arrogance and stupidity. 90% of their fans have never been on the campus let alone taken a class.

  2. tvopack 03/17/2012 at 3:21 PM #

    [quote]He was asked if our fans are unrealistic and/or negative,…[/quote]

    To set the reporter straight, here’s word by word:
    ——

    [b]Question[/b]: Mark, your fan base has kind of gotten criticized for having unrealistic expectations or maybe overestimating what success actually is. What’s been your sense of that as you’ve gone through a year where
    you’ve actually kind of exceeded the expectations on a micro level?

    [b]Answer[/b]:I don’t view it as a negative that our fans have great passion about their program. You have to remember now I was at UCLA for seven years, and I’m familiar with expectations that are somewhat through the roof every year.

    I used to say at UCLA your season really never began until the middle of March. Those other 30 games you play were all exhibition games. I don’t know if our fans are there, but we have great fans. They love their team. They have great passion, support. And it’s our job to give them something to be excited about.

    ———–

    The reporter actually gave Gott a chance to back us up. In this case, my kudos are to both reporter and Gott.

    State Fans, I’m quite relieved to have you writing almost “unnecessary” response to a bad essay by DBR. We need to set things straight, however.

  3. dbo2874 03/17/2012 at 3:35 PM #

    this is an absolute slaying to the DBR article. Nice work SFN

  4. BamaPack 03/17/2012 at 3:40 PM #

    Screw Duke…Lehigh Happens…

  5. Chucks Chesticles 03/17/2012 at 3:43 PM #

    Well this “unreasonable” Wolfpack fan is very pleased with the effort of our team and the competency of our coaches. Things are very different when there is noticeable effort and preparation by the team. I will still be upset when we lose, but not nearly as much as the past years when we weren’t ready to step foot into the arena. Go Pack.

  6. Lunatic Fringe 03/17/2012 at 4:01 PM #

    We are talking about the same fanbase that was complementing Coach K for performing so well this year without “any talent”. To steal BJDs comment, they should probably look into hiring a new GM at Duke.

    I discussed a bit more on why I believe it is only going to get worse for Duke (Coach K’s recruiting style) on the Amile board thread; however, I cannot wait until Coach K decides to finally hang up the whistle at Duke & the subsequent fallout. I think will be within the next year or two probably after he hits 1000 wins.

    I will be eager to see how patient Duke fans will be with their new coach given the past issues with replacing a legend. History (Knight, Lefty, Dean, Lute, even Wooden/Rupp** to some degree) has proven it is HARD to replace a legend. It is true that there was some success in the immediate years following a retirement, but ultimately it took 7-10 years for these programs to right the ship and only after drastic measures (begging Roy to return for instance).

    **UCLA/Kentucky performed better than most in replacing legends, but I see that as a function of their utter dominance of their eras when the legends retired. The parity in basketball today does make it more difficult.

  7. drgreenhouse 03/17/2012 at 4:11 PM #

    The hatred for Duke needs to be present in Wolfpack Nation. Don’t forget, the ESPNs of the world promote Duke as Carolina’s Rival and we are the afterthought, when we all know darn well who the true rivals are. How many of you personally know more than a handful of Duke graduates, and that number shrinks significantly if they are not a lawyer, a doctor or a Methodist minister. Yes, I respect Coach K and I am glad they lost early so he can start preparing our Men’s Basketball team to play for another Gold Medal. People around my age grew up pulling for Duke because State was imploding, Wake was okay, but we needed a viable ABC option. With a little perspective and age, I have come to recognize a few things about our relationship with Duke that needs to be highlighted and why we should maintain our hate/dislike/disdain (pick one).

    1. Duke kept our basketball team from our most realistic chance from a ACC tournament title when they came assisted from 15 points down in the second half to knock off Julius Hodge’s led team.

    2. Another ref-assisted game this year kept us from having a top 25 win and completely changed the course of the season (up until now)

    3. Mike Gminski – I can’t stand to listen to his call of our games and it is a shame that he has called many of them in the past few weeks. He is as big of a homer as Woody Durham and really has no business calling ACC games on the ACC Network.

    4. Jay Bilas – Ditto on the 4 letter Network.

    5. The fact that we don’t consistently get to beat the crap out of them in Football. I really think that if we were in the SEC we would get to play them more often. We, along with Virginia Tech and Clemson are the only reasons that they ever sell out Wallace Wade.

    6. Their Wal-Mart fans are just as bad, if not worse than UNC fans.

    There are more, but these are the ones that come to mind. Screw pulling for the conference, I’m happy as can be for Lehigh.

  8. Alpha Wolf 03/17/2012 at 4:12 PM #

    Duke is arrogant, sure, but UNC — despite all of its success on and off the field — seems to collectively be insecure relative to its neighbor and thus have a constant need to be praised. “Public Ivy’ school and ‘best football atmosphere in the country because of the pine trees’ and all that.

    I thnk that that attitude is largely the why of why the rivalry between UNC and State is so bitter: UNC fans love to ride State down because apparently that makes them feel better about themselves. And State fans, especially alumni hate being told they are second rate when they know that academically that’s far from the case. As I recently told someone who called NC State a “cow college” — let’s see how long you can go without eating.

    Carolina is a great school, make no mistake. Love ’em or hate them, as an educational institution they do a great job. But are they all that — meaning that they are the next best thing to Harvard and throw a better football party than the denizens of Brysnt-Denny or Ben Hill Griffin stadiums? Not exactly. Good, but not THAT good.

    It’s amusing to people more than a couple states away, too.

  9. redcanine 03/17/2012 at 4:18 PM #

    A Duke fan at work told me that all State’s good for is cow farming. I quickly reminded him that we studied his momma in bovine class.

  10. eas 03/17/2012 at 4:24 PM #

    What did Jay Bill-ass say about the Wolfpack NCAA celebration?

  11. StateFans 03/17/2012 at 4:39 PM #

    redcanine, I notice that you said that a Duke FAN said something to you at work…not a Duke GRADUATE

  12. Ashman87 03/17/2012 at 4:43 PM #

    Here’s the thing. Is the State fanbase unreasonable with expectations with respect to basketball? NO!!! Has the State fanbase been frustrated for how things have been going and run with our basketball program has been run these past twenty years? YES!!!

  13. GAWolf 03/17/2012 at 4:45 PM #

    Didn’t Duke fire their Lacrosse Coach and cancel their season based on false allegations against some of their student athletes and the residual outrage by alumni and fans (and the public in general of course). Regardless, they turned on their own in a hot minute by passing judgment irrationally and inappropriately. Pretty work.

  14. redcanine 03/17/2012 at 4:49 PM #

    He was an ill-informed Duke grad. He was, of course, joking and we laughed the whole thing off. It feels good to get in the last word, though.

  15. redwolf87 03/17/2012 at 5:35 PM #

    The general arrogance of Duke fans aside, I am really shocked that something like that got published at DBR. As noted, that site is generally very well run, or has been up until this point.

    I’m not so sure that made Barry Jacobs cringe all that much, though. Except for the fact that it’s so amateurish.

  16. JSRy2k 03/17/2012 at 6:06 PM #

    The irony is stunning:
    “It takes a lot of nerve to blame someone else when you screw up that much…State fans have, in the past couple of decades, run off or ruined the careers of…Les Robinson…Herb Sendek…Sidney Lowe…Mike O’Cain…Chuck Amato…Todd Turner…Lee Fowler”
    The failures of these NCSU coaches/ADs are documented common knowledge, and yet the author of the piece blames fans for their collective demise. Yes, sir, it takes a lot of nerve…

  17. GoldenChain 03/17/2012 at 6:36 PM #

    “Pieces” like this are why I say “to hell with wimpy sportsmanship”! Let’s beat the crap outta some people! Don’t let up now that the worm is turning!
    The only thing that’ll knock 10# of fat off these guys heads is to beat ’em beat ’em bad, and beat ’em consistently!

  18. ryno84 03/17/2012 at 7:34 PM #

    FWIW I spoke with self admitted unx basketball only fan today. His wife is in a book club with a wife of one of the duke assistant coaches. The team chemistry for duke was so foul that Capel sat half way down the b ench to keep the players from fighting. Thinking back to a few of their games I do remember seeing this.

  19. JT 03/17/2012 at 7:36 PM #

    I come from an NC State family and grew up with lots of UNC kids. Honestly, I hate Duke much more than I dislike UNC, probably influenced by my dad and my friends. Can’t stand a lot about UNC, but at least it is a North Carolina school- Duke is Jersey South. I have friends in Durham and every time I ride past anything that says “Duke” I reflexively flip it off.

    I’d never flipped through the DBR forums before today. All I can say is, “What a bunch of pussies.” ‘Nuff said.

  20. GAWolf 03/17/2012 at 7:56 PM #

    Why would Jefferson want to go to a team where everyone hates each other?????

  21. wolfbuff 03/17/2012 at 8:00 PM #

    Plenty of other reasons to hate Duke besides the smugness, yankeyness, wal-martness, floppiness, K-ness, etc. To name a few more: Case hated them, Vic Bubas played at State and coached over there, V owned them, and they blocked our Phi Beta Kappa application back in the 80s. Screw them. And good riddance from the tourney.

  22. Rick 03/17/2012 at 8:14 PM #

    duke’s arrogance has finally done it for me. I was thrilled to see them lose

  23. Gene 03/17/2012 at 8:49 PM #

    “I will be eager to see how patient Duke fans will be with their new coach given the past issues with replacing a legend. ”

    I personally wonder, if any other coach can recruit talent to play in Cameron Indoor Stadium. At some point kids just don’t care about history and tradition or else we’d all be history majors and pay super close attention on field trips to important historical places.

    At some point in time, Indoor Stadium will be seen for what it is, an old, small, outdated stadium and without the allure of the winingest coach in men’s college basketball to attract talent there, probably a detriment to long term viability of the program.

    “Don’t forget, the ESPNs of the world promote Duke as Carolina’s Rival and we are the afterthought, when we all know darn well who the true rivals are. ”

    At some point, we have to admit we made ourselves the after thought, with regards to our bitter rivalry with UNC-CHeat.

    Duke sort of took over as being UNC-Cheats main rival in the late 1980’s, as our basketball program self-destructed. My brother went to UNC, in the late ’80’s to early ’90’s and he really feels Duke is his rival, while he wishes we’d just become more competitive.

    It’s hard to have a rivalry, when one team always wins, one team competes for titles, while the other team just settles at best for mediocrity.

    The frustrating thing about the ACC will be that if Gottfried carries through with our hope of making us relevant again, we’ll not have the home-and-home series with UNC-CHeat to stoke the fires of the rivalry again.

  24. vtpackfan 03/17/2012 at 9:50 PM #

    Easter is on its way and make sure to keep your closest Dukies in your thoughts. Those marshmellowy morsels Peeps are made in Bethlehem, Pa, home of Lehigh.

  25. El Lobo Loco! 03/17/2012 at 9:52 PM #

    After the meltdown of the dookies in the game yesterday coach K should retire….
    then we’ll talk

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