Referee Comparison by School

Earlier I looked at how the ACC referees called ACC compared to other conferences. Now I would like to look at how the referees call games within the conference. I compiled some statistics that I would like to share. Here is my attempt at a chart to make it easier to see.

A few things I noticed:
1) UNC is called for fewer fouls than any other team (something we are all aware of) but more importantly look at the number of fouls called per possession. UNC is only called for a foul every 5 trips down the court. Everyone else in the ACC is called at least once for every 4 possessions. That is some really good coaching by Roy.
2) There are two schools who lead the ACC in fouls committed by their opponent, Duke and UNC.
3) 34.3% of Duke’s shots are three point shots, the most in the ACC.
4) The only other two schools to shot over 30% of their shots from three are BC and Miami. Both teams draw 4 or more fewer fouls per game than Duke and are at the bottom of the fouls drawn category.
5) UNC shoots the fewest three point shorts per game and is second in the number of fouls they draw from their opponents.
6) NCSU is second in fewest three point shots but is 8th in number of fouls by opponent.
7) Wake is near the top in the fouls committed by opponent category.

Conclusions:
1) The head of the ACC referees’ self fulfilling prophecy that UNC does not commit fouls was, well, self fulfilling.
2) Duke is the only team in the conference who can continuously hoist threes and still draw fouls.
3) NCSU does not get many foul calls for it even though their offense is based on 2 point shots while UNC can.

Someone requested a comparison of FTs. Here are the FTs for ACC games only.

FTR is free throw rate which is FTA/FGA
A few things I notices from this chart:
1) UNC is plus 5.1 points per game from the FT line. Duke is +3 and NCSU is +1.5
2) UNC’s opponent FTR is almost half of FSU
3) The only other team with a positive FT point is Wake Forest. Go figure.

About Rick

1992 and 2002 graduate from NCSU. Born and raised an NCSU fan. I remember the good ol' days and they weren't in the last 20 years.

ACC Editor's Picks NC State

54 Responses to Referee Comparison by School

  1. BJD95 03/14/2012 at 12:40 PM #

    National media and commentators are carrying on the conversation and demanding answers. I’m against pointless whining and conspiracy theories, too.

    But that doesn’t mean one should turn a blind eye to blatant injustice, when it really does occur.

    And again – we are not Duke, asking to be “cut in on the action.” We want fair play FOR ALL.

  2. Owen Good 03/14/2012 at 12:47 PM #

    Plainly demonstrates the existence and influence of reputation-based officiating in a subjectively officiated sport. But good luck convincing those who run this league, or the Vichy Pack who think we’ll get some kind of sportsmanship award for knowing our place and accepting it.

  3. Alpha Wolf 03/14/2012 at 12:56 PM #

    It is amusing to see the local media derping “nothing to see here, move along” as hard as they can when national (and more objective) sports voices are calling into question the very integrity of the competition in the conference.

    It may not quite be to the level of fiddling while Rome burns yet, but I do have to say that it’s whistling past the graveyard.

  4. apollocreed 03/14/2012 at 1:07 PM #

    Nice job Rick!

    I’d love to see these same stats compiled for the ACC teams during NCAA tournament play. We could compare the stats knowing that the tournament refs would be non-acc.

  5. Rick 03/14/2012 at 1:15 PM #

    Duke basketball is becoming unwatchable for me.
    The flopping, the hand checking, the flailing after every shot to draw a foul.
    K has found every loop hole he can and is pushing the envelope on them.

  6. Rick 03/14/2012 at 1:17 PM #

    “We could compare the stats knowing that the tournament refs would be non-acc.”

    Probably some of the same refs but they would not be under the ACC guidance on how to officiate games.

    I do not believe it is a conspiracy but predetermined “tendencies” that have gotten out of control.

  7. apollocreed 03/14/2012 at 1:31 PM #

    whatever the motivation, its clear there is a bias… and if the ACC coaches wouldn’t get fined, I”m sure you’d hear the same from them

  8. El Scrotcho 03/14/2012 at 1:32 PM #

    One semi-related thought when I was reading this: Scott Wood is a 3 pt fouling machine. Seems like he gets fouled shooting the 3 a ton and also fouls others shooting 3’s a ton. I honestly think he’s been lucky to not get called for more the way he runs through the shooter on almost every attempt.

  9. lawful 03/14/2012 at 2:25 PM #

    How is there UNC MBA School plastered all over our beloved blog!!!!!?????????

    NCSP: For the 1000th time, much like any other site on the internet, advertising is conducted by a third-party company that looks at cookies on your own computer and anticipates what you’ll be interested in. If you are getting advertisements for “Dr. Zunzi’s Potency Pills”, then it has more to do with your browsing habits than SFN’s site.

  10. packof81 03/14/2012 at 2:30 PM #

    A definite pattern emerges from the stats. Nobody is that good or that lucky.

  11. Tau837 03/14/2012 at 2:32 PM #

    Since this analysis does not combine offensive and defensive possessions, I assume it uses only defensive possessions. Did you factor out offensive fouls?

  12. Rick 03/14/2012 at 2:41 PM #

    A foul is a foul. I could find no way to pull offensive fouls but that would be very interesting data.

  13. TLeo 03/14/2012 at 2:42 PM #

    lawful, I wondered the same thing becuase it’s on mine too. I seem to recall someone saying it has to do with web sites visited or something but I damn sure have not visited any web site having anything to do with those douchbags at cheater hill.
    As for the stats, one has to be blind ot just stubbornly unwilling to see the favoritism toward the two blew schools that they clearly show.

  14. ADVENTUROO 03/14/2012 at 2:44 PM #

    It PROBABLY is time to “move on”. However, folks just keep binging it up. Joe Ovies was, if I recall, the person that re-tweeted Adam Smith’s potty mouth. Since Debbie Yow said we would be contacting them, perhaps, like the UNC bunch, he regrets his tweet.

    Alaa Abdelnaby, the Duke player from the late 80’s, who called the Iona game last night was on David Glenn’s show today. He sounds reasonably intelligent and had some great insight into several of the teams playing. One of his comments was N. C. State got “hosed” on the fouls in the semi-final ACC Game”. Obvioulsy a Dukie with NOT love for the lighter shade of blue.

    Let’s GO pack. Will be interesting to see WHICH games that our buddies, BD and KH work in the tourney. They are, respectivelyh, number 1 & 2 as to the “busiest” refs based on StatSheet data. They also only have 1.5 Stars (out of 5) ratings.

    Harvest time is here. Gotta get them games in NOW as it will be a LONG season until next year.

  15. thekind 03/14/2012 at 3:12 PM #

    SFN-
    One thing that needs to be considered is how many fouls go against Duke and UNC AFTER the game is a blow out.
    For example, many times when State plays Duke or UNC the game will be called extremely lopsided. Often times, the blue teams will be shooting in the double bonus and we aren’t even in the one and one.
    Once we get down big, and the game is decided, then here comes the whistles our way. At that point, the refs are trained to even things out so that at the end of the day (on paper), there is not much discrepency.

    That is why I often wish Coach Gott would tell the refs in the late stages of a ball game “I dont want your Fing calls now. F-you.”

  16. wolfamidpirates 03/14/2012 at 3:29 PM #

    ACC referees (and most other Div. I conferences) chart call accuracy. They review game tape and chart 4 statistics – correct call, incorrect call, correct no-call, and incorrect no-call.

    It would be interesting to see what the average call accuracy is for us and what it is for other (blue) teams.

  17. lawful 03/14/2012 at 3:36 PM #

    …at least I’m not seeing ads for potency pills.

  18. 61Packer 03/14/2012 at 4:10 PM #

    As an observer of ACC basketball since 1957, and one who only until recent years usually rooted for UNC and all the other ACC teams outside the conference, I think the main thing here is not how many fouls but when. I don’t know that UNC gets less fouls called against them, but I believe that over the years, they’ve gotten far more important breaks than the other ACC teams.

    The only time I can ever remember UNC getting a really bum call came in the NCAA tourney against Syracuse in the mid-1970s when the Heels were down a point and Syracuse was going to in-bound the ball with a second or two left. Dean had a player stand directly behind the Orange player they anticipated to receive the pass, and he did, turning quickly and literally trampling the UNC player. No call was made at all; it was crazy just like last Saturday; that one to me was a textbook example of how there is a pre-conceived notion among fans and officials that UNC is superior and the tie always goes to the runner (UNC).

    Years ago in the ACCT, Wake Forest was well on its way to a big upset of UNC when a call came that I’ll never forget. A Wake player whose name I forget scored what appeared to be a late game-changing dunk, only to have it taken away by the refs, who assessed a T on the Wake player for “hanging on the rim”. Carl Tacy was the Deacon coach and his players NEVER clowned or did that stuff, and the real reason he hung longer on the rim was because Warren Martin of UNC was sprawled on the floor directly under the basket. Despite Wake’s arguments, the foul stood and UNC seized the momentum and went on to win. Another game that comes to mind was the inagural opener in the Dean Dome, when underdog Duke got a bunch of late-game bad calls that helped UNC win, 85-82.

    And yes, I think that State probably got more than its share of calls when they hosted the tourney in Reynolds, but since about 1967 when the ACCT left Raleigh and Dean turned the Heels’ program around, officiating has always been about UNC as far as I’m concerned. And Duke’s rise to prominance hasn’t hurt them in that regard either.

    Preconceived opinions about UNC and Duke superiority will be a huge hurdle for Gottfried to overcome. He saw that firsthand in Cameron and again in Atlanta, but I like his attitude so far. He hasn’t erupted in Lefty Driesell style but rather has kept his cool. He’s going to be just fine, I think.

  19. Wufpacker 03/14/2012 at 4:18 PM #

    ^^ Or the “Post-T-Vac” for that matter.

    “It would be interesting to see what the average call accuracy is for us and what it is for other (blue) teams.”

    Interesting, yes. But also subject to bias in itself. Plus I can’t imagine the ACC office would ever let such info get out.

  20. eas 03/14/2012 at 4:25 PM #

    I agree there is no conspiracy here but rather an overkill with tendencies (apparently we have more than the blues because of lack of athletes compared to the blues…..whatever). Tapes should not be reviewed to plan for calls because tendencies actually have nothing to do with an actual foul in a new game situation. This process needs to be revamped to have a separate group review fouls and then discuss with the referee’s when inconsistencies are found. A little quality control if you will. It’s what normal people do to improve without bias. Quiet simple really. Have the ACC have a division/group for game review that marks specific calls in question. Then have Ref’s review the marked calls only and comment why it was called. In the process maybe they actually identify THEIR OWN tendencies for making calls and work to improve on them.

    As for Duke…..absolutely agree with Rick’s comments. It is so frustrating watching all the flops, acting etc. it has gotten out of hand and it is awful to watch.

  21. Dogbreath 03/14/2012 at 5:59 PM #

    I’ve concluded that college basketball should be self-regulated. The players can be trusted to police themselves and call out fouls much better than officials. There would be no honor in flopping and calling tricky tack shit 35 feet from the basket. Just like pickup ball. Anybody who tries to pull stunts gets an elbow in the face.

    This would be much better IMO.

  22. BureauOfMines 03/14/2012 at 6:12 PM #

    “… college basketball should be self-regulated … Anybody who tries to pull stunts gets an elbow in the face.”

    Yeah. Let them fight, just like in hockey. Let the refs only rein in the most egregious stuff.

  23. Wufpacker 03/14/2012 at 6:32 PM #

    ^^ Reminds me of something that happened in intramurals way back when. Guy on my team, who was a pretty good ballhandler, was driving the lane. His defender moved into position and cut him off. Expecting the charge, said defender launched himself backwards, but my teammate stopped dead and drained a little 10ish footer, never making even the slightest contact with the guy.

    With a $#!+eating grin on his face he looked down at the guy and said something to the effect of “Get up and play defense, p*ssy”.

  24. ncsu05mit10 03/14/2012 at 7:24 PM #

    I’m not surprised UNC is at the top of the list– it’s a combination of officiating bias and the undeniable fact that they’re just good. They’ve got more talent in the ACC than any other school and a very good coach and motivator… I’d think they would play good defense. I hope with better talent and more coaching WE play better defense.

    However, the bias in officiating is also undeniable. The statistics regarding fouls are great, however, it’s impossible to quantify the other issues– what do UNC and Duke get away with that’s not recorded? Travels, toes on the line, loose balls knocked out of bounds, etc, etc…

    Austin Rivers comes to mind with his traveling… Did anyone else notice his blatant push-off to get open for his last 3 against FSU? Another offensive no-call for the blues…

  25. choppack1 03/14/2012 at 8:55 PM #

    I would hope that the NCAA would look at both the Duke and UNC game and be very disturbed by the similarities in these games. In both games, NC State appeared to be the better team. In both games, NC State was in a rhythm and appeared to be in controll of the game until a key section in the second half WHERE THE OFFICIALS CHANGED THE WAY THEY WERE CALLING THE GAME.

    I don’t think it’s a conspiracy, but since the head of officials admitted that officials study TENDENCIES – perhaps these officials thought that given the results thus far into the game was more a result of their officiating than the NC State’s performance. So, they obviously needed to tighten up the officiating since the way the game had been officiated for 1st half and the beginning of the second half had allowed an inferior team to take control of the game.

    Sports Illustrated did a study last year about the “home field advantage” enjoyed in all sports. It looked at data across sports where officials made objective calls and reached a controversial conclusion: “Home field advantage” was really a result of officiating bias towards the home team.

    Now, if you buy that such a bias is likely or even possible – then it’s possible that other factors could prejudice an official’s judgement. I’d submit that in the ACC – the prominence of the Big 2 coach’s AND the reputation of these 2 schools – creates a very similar effect.

    And what you see is that when the game is in on the line, these teams get the benefit of the doubt over their opponent. I wouldn’t have had a problem with a no-call on the Kendall Marshall drive if they hadn’t called 3 very questionable charges on our end of the court.

    The sequence where CJ Leslie fouled crystallized this “benefit of the doubt”. He gets called for a charge on one end. On the other end, there’s minor contact and the Heel draws the foul. CJ drives to the basket, there’s obvious contact but no foul. The Heels get the rebound and there’s a questionable call on Leslie.

    But the ACC doesn’t see a problem…and until they do, it’s fool’s wish thinking that this lack of decency and basic fairness will change.

    In general, basketball officiating is problematic on so many levels:
    There is contact on almost every possession. If this contact “breaks” an opponents “space/progress” – this is a foul. This type of contact occurs on more possessions than it doesn’t – by a wide margin.

    As a result, an official can call a foul on almost any possession – and an interestd party can be miffed by a no-call on almost any possession.

    It’s not basketball is the only sport that has this problem. On football, you can pretty much call holding on any possession. However, football has made an effort to call the holds when the hold outside the chest area. They clarified the rule on pass interference so contact is allowed with the receiver in the first 5 yards.

    In baseball, an conscious effort was made to consistently call the traditional strike zone – rather than a floating zone based on a pitcher’s “tendencies” or the position of the catcher’s mitt.

    In both of these cases, the powers that controlled these sports decided that they had a problem that was impacting the fairness of the game, making the officials job more difficult and drawing more attention to the officials. Basically, these organizations didn’t want officiating to be the determining factor, rather they wanted the best team to win.

    Basketball, especially college basketball, and even moreso, ACC basketball has admitted no such problem. The message that the powers that be in college basketball seem to be saying is, “Our officials do a fantastic job – no changes are needed on that front.”

    In basketball officials have too much power to impact the game.

    Because of the frequency of fouling, a scorecard can look pretty even in spite of there being huge differences in the style of play between 2 opponents.

    Players can be disqualified or relegated to the bench with too many fouls called.

    It sucks and if it wasn’t for March Madness, most of us would have quit paying attention.

Leave a Reply