Karl Hess tosses NC State legends out of the game [4:50 pm Update]


In another slap in the face to NC State, one of the “top” ACC officials decided to throw Tom Gugliotta and Chris Corchiani out of the basketball game.

Welcome to another example of how awful the Atlantic Coast Conference has become and little league officials value NC State and our heritage and history.

Can you ever imagine Michael Jordan being kicked out of a game at the Dean Dome? Or Christian Laettner getting kicked out of a game at Cameron?

Today Karl Hess took his insanity one step further and joined the NC State officiating Hall of Fame alongside legends like Rick Hartzell, Larry Rose, Roger Ayers, Lou Bello, John Clougherty (at Maryland in 2000) and many, many others when he chose to eject NC State legends Tom Gugliotta and Chris Corchiani from the RBC Center in front of 16,000 fans and a regional television audience. Pack Pride is reporting that Hess apparently asked security to eject a student a few plays earlier for saying “You Suck,” but was told that isn’t enough of a reason.

In my opinion, the first amendment of the US Constitution provides that there is almost there NOTHING that a fan can say at a game that should warrant an ejection by an official – absent credible threats of physical violence or attempts at starting violence. Since the game ended, Corchiani and Gugliotta have stated that they did not even utter an ounce of profanity.

[4:20pm Update] As I was writing that^ exact paragraph, the national blog, Deadspin was agreeing with me and posted the following comments in this entry.

Retired NBA star Tom Gugliotta was ejected by referee Karl Hess in the second half of of North Carolina State’s home loss to Florida State today.

We don’t know yet what it was Googs said to get the thumb, but CBS’s Matt Norlander reports the former Wolfpack star (along with another former NBA player and NCSU alum Chris Corchiani) was ejected by Hess.

RBC Center is owned by a public corporation, and North Carolina State is a public school. Thus, free speech rules apply. Unless Gugliotta was threatening to commit a crime or engaging in speech that could injure others (i.e. “Fire!”) he has the right to sit there and say anything he wants. It’s protected speech. [ACC Network]

Since the game ended, Corchiani tweeted the following from his account @Chris_Corchiani:

Karl”rabbit ears” Hess didn’t like the fact Googs and I told him he was having a bad day, inconsistent, and telling the truth. #horribleness

..and, since all of this has been written…we ran across the following comments from “SeaBarrister” on Pack Pride’s message forums:

I believe there may be 1st Amendment issue here… (I’ve been thinking about this ever since the Presby fan was thrown out of the Dean Dome.)

Googs and Corch were removed by an RPD police officer who was exercising the police power of the state (due either to the fact that he was executing duties in his role as a law enforcement officer, or as an agent of the state contracting to a state institution – NC State). The RBC (or PNC) Center is at least a limited public forum for speech (the state even provides “cheer” leaders). Throwing out a patron based on what was said, is a content based restriction of speech (at best) or a viewpoint non-neutral restriction at worst. (is it all commentary on officiating, or just negative commentary that will get you tossed). As such the restriction must survive a strict scrutiny analysis to be valid (threats, “fire” in a crowded building, etc.. would pass such scrutiny, “Karl Hess, you ******* suck” would not.)

Certainly the offending behavior is not about the colorful language, else Coach K would never make it to the first TV timeout – neither would most players for that matter.

The only remaining question is whether or not a patron waives his first amendment rights by utilizing the “seat license.” I’m certain that the school officials believe that he does, but I’m not so sure. First, the freedom of speech is a fundamental right and may not be waivable at all. Second, if there is an ability to waive these rights, it seems that such a waiver must be expressly granted. I’m sure that you wont find a signed document from Corch or Googs (or the Presby Fan) that indicates their agreement not to tell Karl Hess what a ******-nozzle he is.

If I were @Mark_Gottfried and Debbie Yow, the following steps would be taken

(1) @Chris_Corchiani and Googs would have their asses in those EXACT SEATS for the last two games of the season if not all of next season.

(2) A review of free speech policies and security responsibilities of the RBC Staff and Raleigh Police Department will be had.

(3) Karl Hess would never be allowed to officiate another NC State basketball game. Period. Ever. Anywhere. We simply DO NOT take the court if Hess is assigned to the court. If John Swofford doesn’t like it, then we will force the issue.

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1992 and 2002 graduate from NCSU. Born and raised an NCSU fan. I remember the good ol' days and they weren't in the last 20 years.

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184 Responses to Karl Hess tosses NC State legends out of the game [4:50 pm Update]

  1. djackson1125 02/18/2012 at 7:14 PM #

    I’m with vtpackfan. Yow needs to crack some skulls. The “I’m working on it” e-mail means nothing to me. I know she has it in her (see the Gary Williams bomb – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WLYj6Mtpw4)

  2. Howler 02/18/2012 at 7:19 PM #

    I disagree that Googs and Corch should sit in the exact same seats against UNC. I want them right behind Roy, and in every camera shot showing that whiner.

    Seriously, anytime you have a ref who makes himself the story, that ref has to go. The best games are those where the refs aren’t noticeable and just seem like part of the facilities.

  3. freshmanin83 02/18/2012 at 7:24 PM #

    “vtpackfan Says:
    February 18th, 2012 at 7:06 pm Dr. Yow knows how to jab and stab with the best of them-when its her subordinates that are in the action! When dealing with her “peers” like Swoffy she is a complete pansie. The good ol’ boys get a real hoot once she leaves the room. Funny, robo emails “workin’ on it”. Sure Doc, we know who is working whom (atleast I do).”

    I am not exactly sure what this is trying to indicate but is it that Dr. Yow can bully? people under her but is weak and a joke when dealing with people on her own level?(other AD’s?) Is that about right? And what is the reference to who is working on whom? I don’t get that and since you indicate that you know would you mind sharing what you do know about who is working on her and what are they accomplishing by working on her?

    Could you also tell from what knowledge that you make these comments?

  4. choppack1 02/18/2012 at 7:27 PM #

    What is sad is that I’m not surprised.

    Also, I am shocked that googs and corch were complaining about officiating after it was established that a d1 athlete told his son not to complain about it.

  5. Ed89 02/18/2012 at 7:34 PM #

    Not to rub salt into wounds, but anyone remember that Corch was the recipient of probably the worst call in the history of State basketball in which he was called for traveling in the NCAA tourney game vs. Georgetown. I think it was Valentine with that phantom call…after it looked like a foul was called.

  6. Wufpacker 02/18/2012 at 7:34 PM #

    I can’t help but to wonder how Bob Kennel feels about all of this.

  7. BureauOfMines 02/18/2012 at 7:40 PM #

    This is an outrage! The ref and cop exceeded their authority by tossing Corch and Guggs. I believe them when they say they weren’t threatening or cussing Hess. From all accounts, these two were pointing out the shortcomings of the officials in detail and got under Hess’ skin. Hess showed his ass and demanded the cop throw them out. This is yet another flagrant example of anti-NC State bias on the part of officials.

    When it comes to profanity, Maryland is the heavyweight champ. I remember one of the first games in which they hosted Duke at the Comcast Center. The cussing and F-bombs got so frequent, the network ran out of delay to remove the most egregious F-bombs. The game was stopped and both Gary and K exhorted the crowd to watch their language. I didn’t see anyone ejected for cussing though. About the only ejection in recent memory was Roy tossing that opposing fan from the Dean Dome, also an assinine spectacle.

  8. tuckerdorm1983 02/18/2012 at 7:40 PM #

    I want to see G and/or C interviewed and hear their side of the story.

  9. WV Wolf 02/18/2012 at 7:46 PM #

    WVU’s play-by-play announcer Tony Caridi had some comments (Karl Hess was officiating a WVU/Syracuse game that would have gone to OT but a clear goaltend wasn’t called in the final seconds):

    “Karl Hess can make the call to kick out two prominent NC State alums, but can’t make a basic goaltending call. Guy is out of control”

    “Today’s game was Karl Hess’ 14th this month…he’s been in 11 different states. He wouldn’t be getting cranky now would he?”

    On Tony’s second point, I wrote an entry here on SFN about that exact issue.

    Also, I find it pretty cool that 2 legends are giving the refs a hard time just like the rest of us do.

  10. redcanine 02/18/2012 at 7:50 PM #

    ^Fantastic comment.

    So Hess needs to refuel his tank?

  11. Rick 02/18/2012 at 7:57 PM #

    “Also, I am shocked that googs and corch were complaining about officiating after it was established that a d1 athlete told his son not to complain about it.”

    snort

  12. Ed89 02/18/2012 at 7:57 PM #

    Great post, WV! Thanks!

  13. BureauOfMines 02/18/2012 at 8:09 PM #

    Another thought … as big a disappointment as this game was, this ejection incident is so outrageous, it has completely taken center stage.

    I certainly hope our AD is channelling our fury toward her superiors. This is an absolute outrage and the more I think about it, the angrier I get.

  14. old13 02/18/2012 at 8:11 PM #

    Emails sent to DY, RW and THE acc!

  15. NCSU84 02/18/2012 at 8:11 PM #

    I just want some “unbiased” person who was there to tell me the facts. I do not think it was appropriate to eject a fan, but I really would like to know what was (or wasn’t) said to the official. Perhaps Googs and Corch said nothing. Perhaps another fan made an inflammatory statement and Googs and Corch were the sacrificial lambs. Perhaps Corch dated the official’s wife. Perhaps… . Please, someone must know what happened.

  16. MrPlywood 02/18/2012 at 8:13 PM #

    NCSU84, earlier in the thread someone posted an eyewitness account… have a look.

  17. ADVENTUROO 02/18/2012 at 8:15 PM #

    My adult daughter was waiting for our party to finish the potty break after the game and got into a conversation with one of the RBC officals who was at the scorer’s table and sitting DIRECTLY in front of Googs and Chris. He states unequivately that he did not hear any loud, boisterous, profane or otherwise derogatory comments from behind his seat. He was as perplexed as we all were and he was in the middle of the situation. This info has been passed on. It also is consistent with what was reported in the N&O article.

    Karl Hess appears to be having reality issues and should be properly evaluated. His performance, not only regarding this incident, but overall is less that what one would expect from an ACC ref.

  18. TheAliasTroll 02/18/2012 at 8:17 PM #

    and this dick head is OFFICIATING our games .. glad he showed his true colors today, hoping for a good outcome out of all of this

  19. Stillastatefan 02/18/2012 at 8:18 PM #

    Yow says the ACC is going to issue a statement later tonight about the incident. (via WRAL)

    http://www.wralsportsfan.com/voices/blogpost/10750725/

  20. Wufpacker 02/18/2012 at 8:22 PM #

    “His performance, not only regarding this incident, but overall is less that what one would expect from an ACC ref.”

    Now that’s saying something.

  21. Hinton Helper 02/18/2012 at 8:24 PM #

    Googs and Corch are going to be on 620AM Monday morning speaking with Mark Thomas…

    word.

  22. WeAreCured 02/18/2012 at 8:26 PM #

    So not only did we get our asses handed to us by FSU at home to more than likely end our chances at making the Tournament, Googs and Corch had their Constitutional rights violated. What a day.

    I haven’t read through all 7 pages, but SeaBarrister form Pack Pride is right on in his Constitutional analysis. Fundamental rights must be expressly waived (i.e. willfully, knowingly, and voluntarily; often achieved through a signature at the bottom of a valid waiver), which I seriously doubt Googs and Corch did in this situation. Assuming there was no waiver, Hess and the police officer engaged in state action, thus violating Googs’ and Corch’s 1st Amendment right to free speech. The only exception to government abridgement of free speech is speech that tends to incite violence or panic, which has a much higher threshold than one would think. For example, abridging free speech based on statements like, “I hope you die,” or “Die Hess,” would not pass Constitutional muster, but “Everyone, let’s all kill Hess,” more than likely would. The marketplace of ideas is the proper stage to judge speech, and based on the market, I’m sure Googs’ and Corch’s speech would have been viewed as worthy statements.

    Oliver Wendell Holmes is rolling over in his grave.

  23. Ed89 02/18/2012 at 8:29 PM #

    Yow says the ACC is going to issue a statement later tonight about the incident. (via WRAL)

    The statement better be that Karl Hess is hereby suspended from all ACC officiating duties until a full evaluation is completed. And, I mean an evaluation of his mental capability.

  24. Wufpacker 02/18/2012 at 8:45 PM #

    “For example, abridging free speech based on statements like, “I hope you die,” or “Die Hess,” would not pass Constitutional muster, but “Everyone, let’s all kill Hess,” more than likely would.”

    Next time Ol’ Karl is in Raleigh, we might just get some real world examples of these sorts of statements and which ones do or do not qualify.

  25. Staffinfection 02/18/2012 at 9:17 PM #

    NCSU84, even though I come to this site almost everyday, I have only posted here two times. Today, and once before with the coaching fiasco envolving Calamari. I used the screen name Staffworker and confirmed his interest in the job the night before he dropped the bomb and got his raise. Two reasons for not posting regularly, I have only when I feel I have something of value to add (inside) and I don’t want to lose my privileges. I have personally talked to several people INDIVIDUALLY that where sitting between C & G and (deleted) Karl. All were seated at the scorers table and they all said the same thing… NO profanity, NO threats, and NOTHING that should make someone with that level of responsibility and privilege become retaliatory!!! There was one student that yelled “Stop looking at the dance team…” which could have implied ‘… and start watching the game.’ Plain and simple, he let the fans (majority being students) get under his skin and childishly / unprofessionally retaliated. Nothing more, nothing less.

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