Karl Hess tosses NC State legends out of the game [4:50 pm Update]


In another slap in the face to NC State, one of the “top” ACC officials decided to throw Tom Gugliotta and Chris Corchiani out of the basketball game.

Welcome to another example of how awful the Atlantic Coast Conference has become and little league officials value NC State and our heritage and history.

Can you ever imagine Michael Jordan being kicked out of a game at the Dean Dome? Or Christian Laettner getting kicked out of a game at Cameron?

Today Karl Hess took his insanity one step further and joined the NC State officiating Hall of Fame alongside legends like Rick Hartzell, Larry Rose, Roger Ayers, Lou Bello, John Clougherty (at Maryland in 2000) and many, many others when he chose to eject NC State legends Tom Gugliotta and Chris Corchiani from the RBC Center in front of 16,000 fans and a regional television audience. Pack Pride is reporting that Hess apparently asked security to eject a student a few plays earlier for saying “You Suck,” but was told that isn’t enough of a reason.

In my opinion, the first amendment of the US Constitution provides that there is almost there NOTHING that a fan can say at a game that should warrant an ejection by an official – absent credible threats of physical violence or attempts at starting violence. Since the game ended, Corchiani and Gugliotta have stated that they did not even utter an ounce of profanity.

[4:20pm Update] As I was writing that^ exact paragraph, the national blog, Deadspin was agreeing with me and posted the following comments in this entry.

Retired NBA star Tom Gugliotta was ejected by referee Karl Hess in the second half of of North Carolina State’s home loss to Florida State today.

We don’t know yet what it was Googs said to get the thumb, but CBS’s Matt Norlander reports the former Wolfpack star (along with another former NBA player and NCSU alum Chris Corchiani) was ejected by Hess.

RBC Center is owned by a public corporation, and North Carolina State is a public school. Thus, free speech rules apply. Unless Gugliotta was threatening to commit a crime or engaging in speech that could injure others (i.e. “Fire!”) he has the right to sit there and say anything he wants. It’s protected speech. [ACC Network]

Since the game ended, Corchiani tweeted the following from his account @Chris_Corchiani:

Karl”rabbit ears” Hess didn’t like the fact Googs and I told him he was having a bad day, inconsistent, and telling the truth. #horribleness

..and, since all of this has been written…we ran across the following comments from “SeaBarrister” on Pack Pride’s message forums:

I believe there may be 1st Amendment issue here… (I’ve been thinking about this ever since the Presby fan was thrown out of the Dean Dome.)

Googs and Corch were removed by an RPD police officer who was exercising the police power of the state (due either to the fact that he was executing duties in his role as a law enforcement officer, or as an agent of the state contracting to a state institution – NC State). The RBC (or PNC) Center is at least a limited public forum for speech (the state even provides “cheer” leaders). Throwing out a patron based on what was said, is a content based restriction of speech (at best) or a viewpoint non-neutral restriction at worst. (is it all commentary on officiating, or just negative commentary that will get you tossed). As such the restriction must survive a strict scrutiny analysis to be valid (threats, “fire” in a crowded building, etc.. would pass such scrutiny, “Karl Hess, you ******* suck” would not.)

Certainly the offending behavior is not about the colorful language, else Coach K would never make it to the first TV timeout – neither would most players for that matter.

The only remaining question is whether or not a patron waives his first amendment rights by utilizing the “seat license.” I’m certain that the school officials believe that he does, but I’m not so sure. First, the freedom of speech is a fundamental right and may not be waivable at all. Second, if there is an ability to waive these rights, it seems that such a waiver must be expressly granted. I’m sure that you wont find a signed document from Corch or Googs (or the Presby Fan) that indicates their agreement not to tell Karl Hess what a ******-nozzle he is.

If I were @Mark_Gottfried and Debbie Yow, the following steps would be taken

(1) @Chris_Corchiani and Googs would have their asses in those EXACT SEATS for the last two games of the season if not all of next season.

(2) A review of free speech policies and security responsibilities of the RBC Staff and Raleigh Police Department will be had.

(3) Karl Hess would never be allowed to officiate another NC State basketball game. Period. Ever. Anywhere. We simply DO NOT take the court if Hess is assigned to the court. If John Swofford doesn’t like it, then we will force the issue.

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About Rick

1992 and 2002 graduate from NCSU. Born and raised an NCSU fan. I remember the good ol' days and they weren't in the last 20 years.

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184 Responses to Karl Hess tosses NC State legends out of the game [4:50 pm Update]

  1. Ed89 02/18/2012 at 6:52 PM #

    ^^I bet with every email Yow gets today she’s wondering why on earth she took this job.

    That’s why I mentioned earlier that we should barrage the inboxes of Swofford and Clougherty.

    Hey, she was at Maryland. If it’s one thing she would know about, it would be “truly” VULGAR and CLASSLESS fans…

    We’re passionate…very different. I’m sure she can explain the difference to Swofford and Clougherty.

  2. 1.21 Jigawatts 02/18/2012 at 6:52 PM #

    Not very smart of Karl to get on the bad side of a couple Italians. Especially when one is from Long Island.

    They should send him some new concrete sneakers. You know…to bury the hatchet.

  3. BJD95 02/18/2012 at 6:53 PM #

    Kersey was the third official today, right? I will just assume he was the guy who thought the students shouldn’t watch the dance team.

  4. IrishPackFan 02/18/2012 at 6:53 PM #

    Being hearing impaired I can read lips. The only thing that I could see being said was “throw us out”. It was repeated about three to four times. I didn’t catch a glimpse of what was said as they were leaving but that was all Corch would say. Apparently Hess was bragging about getting them booted. Jacknut. Screw Swofford’s e-mail addy…somebody get me Hess’!!!

  5. runwiththepack 02/18/2012 at 6:54 PM #

    Thank you, Googs and Fire!

    Took one for the team, er… wolfpack fambly.

    I know Fire still lives around here. Maybe Googs, too. Wouldn’t it be super if they, (or suitable subs), appeared at a succession of future NCSU home games?

    Too late this season. Almost over. The crow will LOVE their presence.

    Those two already had secured their places in NCSU history, but now they may be truly legendary! I hope they can have fun with this BS in future PNC center games.

  6. tjfoose1 02/18/2012 at 6:56 PM #

    I agree with you ’74. No one is condoning it.

    Here, I’ll break it down. The point was brought up by BJD to buttress the contention that is was ridiculous to toss Corch and Googs. Some were trying to inject the “unless profanity was used” point. But profanity is not the litmus test, otherwise, thousands of fans would be tossed from venues every day.

    So the fact that profanity was not used makes it even MORE ridiculous.

    That was point.

  7. LRM 02/18/2012 at 6:56 PM #

    Kersey was the third official today, right? I will just assume he was the guy who thought the students shouldn’t watch the dance team

    I think that comment meant a student told Hess to stop watching the dance team, not vice versa.

  8. packpowerfan 02/18/2012 at 6:57 PM #

    tucker,

    I don’t remember specifically what I said, but I was 18, immature, and superhero drunk. There was a phallic reference and something to do with a certain ref fellating God knows who or what.

    I enjoyed the entirety of a Pack win. This is Exhibit A that unless you’re around children or families (I was entrenched in the student section), profanity shouldn’t get you thrown out. I’m not defending it, not saying it’s a good practice, but it should absolutely not get you tossed.

    I am angrier about this incident, coupled with the Lo Brown shove, than I am about the Duke loss, this loss, and even the Duke officiating (I have been seething for days over that). I don’t think that bolting to another conference is the answer, simply because I don’t know how truly “attractive” we are to anyone other than us dyed-in-the-furs. That being said, I am literally at the end of my rope with the ACC. Screw the fact that we helped found it, I can’t be nostalgic about a conference that isn’t the same as it was when we started it. This isn’t the ACC, it’s the BLC: Blue-Lovers Conference.

  9. stillapackfan 02/18/2012 at 6:57 PM #

    “…apologetic home cooking calls against UNC”

    Is that really how you want to win? Has it come to that?

  10. Dreadstone 02/18/2012 at 6:58 PM #

    The time has come for NC State to pursue other options. The ACC is now hostile to our University.

  11. BJD95 02/18/2012 at 6:58 PM #

    Whoops, that makes much more sense. Too angry for reading comprehension. 🙂

  12. BJD95 02/18/2012 at 7:02 PM #

    The increasing levels of anger….I shudder thinking of what they will have to do to top Thursday and today on Tuesday night.

  13. tjfoose1 02/18/2012 at 7:02 PM #

    “Personally, I don’t think putting “legends” before their names makes this anymore wrong than if it was an average, lowly fan like me or you.”

    You miss the point, LRM. Hess focused on them because of WHO they are, not because of what they did or said.

    Hess is about Hess. He is more important than the game. That is the point.

  14. Wufpacker 02/18/2012 at 7:03 PM #

    My understanding of the dance team comment is a little bit different. I could be wrong, but I read that to mean that the official took offense to the fan(s), who were getting on the official about HIM watching the dance team rather than watching the game, an obvious dig on his officiating up to that point.

    It’s still pretty absurd either way, but makes a little more sense.

  15. StateFans 02/18/2012 at 7:04 PM #

    Need the video of the shove!!

  16. BJD95 02/18/2012 at 7:04 PM #

    I would also like to see Ray Natili try shoving Lorenzo Brown AFTER a game on the street sometime…

  17. Hinton Helper 02/18/2012 at 7:05 PM #

    The entire 83 team (sans Sid, perhaps) should be seated in the front of the student section Tuesday.

    DT, Corch, and Gugliotta too.

  18. vtpackfan 02/18/2012 at 7:06 PM #

    Dr. Yow knows how to jab and stab with the best of them-when its her subordinates that are in the action! When dealing with her “peers” like Swoffy she is a complete pansie. The good ol’ boys get a real hoot once she leaves the room. Funny, robo emails “workin’ on it”. Sure Doc, we know who is working whom (atleast I do).

  19. tvopack 02/18/2012 at 7:06 PM #

    I’m watching St. Mary’s vs. Murray State. Two referees handed their hands and pulled a player up from the floor after a tie up. It’s shameful to see how ACC refs are doing their job.

  20. MP 02/18/2012 at 7:09 PM #

    In Chapel Hill the coaches throw out fans. In other arenas they have their henchmen do it for them.

    After the way this week has gone, something crazy is going to happen Tuesday night. I hope it includes Roy Williams fleeing for his safety. Maybe he’ll manage to insult his players again in the process.

  21. tjfoose1 02/18/2012 at 7:09 PM #

    “… the first amendment says the government can’t infringe on your free speech, not some moron ref.”

    Is Hess’s idiocy contagious today? Hess was not the one who removed Corch and Googs from the arena. They were ignoring the “moron ref”.

    It was the Police action of the State (in the form of a State police officer), that removed Corch and Googs from the arena.

    That is the argument that is being made, and stated, repeatedly.

  22. MP 02/18/2012 at 7:10 PM #

    Well, vtpf… That is disconcerting.

  23. gotncstate 02/18/2012 at 7:11 PM #

    G’Damn Signs of the Apocolypse…..
    Someone better be in BIG trouble!

  24. tjfoose1 02/18/2012 at 7:13 PM #

    ” When dealing with her “peers” like Swoffy she is a complete pansie.”

    Then go to Woodson.

  25. BJD95 02/18/2012 at 7:13 PM #

    I am thinking this needs Chancellor-level attention.

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