Karl Hess tosses NC State legends out of the game [4:50 pm Update]


In another slap in the face to NC State, one of the “top” ACC officials decided to throw Tom Gugliotta and Chris Corchiani out of the basketball game.

Welcome to another example of how awful the Atlantic Coast Conference has become and little league officials value NC State and our heritage and history.

Can you ever imagine Michael Jordan being kicked out of a game at the Dean Dome? Or Christian Laettner getting kicked out of a game at Cameron?

Today Karl Hess took his insanity one step further and joined the NC State officiating Hall of Fame alongside legends like Rick Hartzell, Larry Rose, Roger Ayers, Lou Bello, John Clougherty (at Maryland in 2000) and many, many others when he chose to eject NC State legends Tom Gugliotta and Chris Corchiani from the RBC Center in front of 16,000 fans and a regional television audience. Pack Pride is reporting that Hess apparently asked security to eject a student a few plays earlier for saying “You Suck,” but was told that isn’t enough of a reason.

In my opinion, the first amendment of the US Constitution provides that there is almost there NOTHING that a fan can say at a game that should warrant an ejection by an official – absent credible threats of physical violence or attempts at starting violence. Since the game ended, Corchiani and Gugliotta have stated that they did not even utter an ounce of profanity.

[4:20pm Update] As I was writing that^ exact paragraph, the national blog, Deadspin was agreeing with me and posted the following comments in this entry.

Retired NBA star Tom Gugliotta was ejected by referee Karl Hess in the second half of of North Carolina State’s home loss to Florida State today.

We don’t know yet what it was Googs said to get the thumb, but CBS’s Matt Norlander reports the former Wolfpack star (along with another former NBA player and NCSU alum Chris Corchiani) was ejected by Hess.

RBC Center is owned by a public corporation, and North Carolina State is a public school. Thus, free speech rules apply. Unless Gugliotta was threatening to commit a crime or engaging in speech that could injure others (i.e. “Fire!”) he has the right to sit there and say anything he wants. It’s protected speech. [ACC Network]

Since the game ended, Corchiani tweeted the following from his account @Chris_Corchiani:

Karl”rabbit ears” Hess didn’t like the fact Googs and I told him he was having a bad day, inconsistent, and telling the truth. #horribleness

..and, since all of this has been written…we ran across the following comments from “SeaBarrister” on Pack Pride’s message forums:

I believe there may be 1st Amendment issue here… (I’ve been thinking about this ever since the Presby fan was thrown out of the Dean Dome.)

Googs and Corch were removed by an RPD police officer who was exercising the police power of the state (due either to the fact that he was executing duties in his role as a law enforcement officer, or as an agent of the state contracting to a state institution – NC State). The RBC (or PNC) Center is at least a limited public forum for speech (the state even provides “cheer” leaders). Throwing out a patron based on what was said, is a content based restriction of speech (at best) or a viewpoint non-neutral restriction at worst. (is it all commentary on officiating, or just negative commentary that will get you tossed). As such the restriction must survive a strict scrutiny analysis to be valid (threats, “fire” in a crowded building, etc.. would pass such scrutiny, “Karl Hess, you ******* suck” would not.)

Certainly the offending behavior is not about the colorful language, else Coach K would never make it to the first TV timeout – neither would most players for that matter.

The only remaining question is whether or not a patron waives his first amendment rights by utilizing the “seat license.” I’m certain that the school officials believe that he does, but I’m not so sure. First, the freedom of speech is a fundamental right and may not be waivable at all. Second, if there is an ability to waive these rights, it seems that such a waiver must be expressly granted. I’m sure that you wont find a signed document from Corch or Googs (or the Presby Fan) that indicates their agreement not to tell Karl Hess what a ******-nozzle he is.

If I were @Mark_Gottfried and Debbie Yow, the following steps would be taken

(1) @Chris_Corchiani and Googs would have their asses in those EXACT SEATS for the last two games of the season if not all of next season.

(2) A review of free speech policies and security responsibilities of the RBC Staff and Raleigh Police Department will be had.

(3) Karl Hess would never be allowed to officiate another NC State basketball game. Period. Ever. Anywhere. We simply DO NOT take the court if Hess is assigned to the court. If John Swofford doesn’t like it, then we will force the issue.

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About Rick

1992 and 2002 graduate from NCSU. Born and raised an NCSU fan. I remember the good ol' days and they weren't in the last 20 years.

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184 Responses to Karl Hess tosses NC State legends out of the game [4:50 pm Update]

  1. tuckerdorm1983 02/18/2012 at 5:56 PM #

    We still don’t know the facts. Just the Facts please. I thought the only way you get tossed from a game is throwing things on the floor.

  2. tuckerdorm1983 02/18/2012 at 6:00 PM #

    if they did not use profanity or threaten the ref, then this is an outrage.

  3. Staffinfection 02/18/2012 at 6:00 PM #

    Old Mac, as I understand it, they were discussing the students. There was one they wanted ejected from behind the bench (or near it) but it never happened. The students were the ones giving the refs a real case of the ‘A$$’.

  4. Old MacDonald 02/18/2012 at 6:02 PM #

    Yow replied to an email I sent. She is working on it.

  5. primacyone 02/18/2012 at 6:04 PM #

    Another eyewitness account:

    http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=178&f=2515&t=8715854

    “…I was sitting two rows behind Chris & Tom. If you watch the video I am in the second row of SWPC members. I heard everything, including when another ref called out a student near me for saying “Quit looking at the dance team.” The cop came over and just laughed at the comment and said, you are find you can stay.

    Chris and Tom were harmlessly complaining about the ref. No profanity. They had two very young daughters with them and I doubt they would ever cuss with them there. I never saw anything other than just average complaining.

    Karl walked over and pointed at them and said, “Get them out of here.” He then found a cop and said, “I want you to get them out of here.”

    And that was pretty much that. I was right there. I saw it first-hand thats exactly what happened almost word for word….”

  6. Wulfpack 02/18/2012 at 6:04 PM #

    I’ve seen plenty of fans tossed for fighting or intoxication – but not by an official. Never. That is what arena security and law enforcement is for. Critical question: DOES HESS HAVE SUCH AUTHORITY?

  7. graywolf 02/18/2012 at 6:06 PM #

    i emailed Debbie Yow and got a response within one minute. Her response was that she is working on this now with the ACC office.

    Thank you Debbie Yow for your leadership!

  8. Philodeliakarta 02/18/2012 at 6:07 PM #

    Please dont let this issue die. I never get involved with things like this, but I was compelled to email our AD also.

  9. BJD95 02/18/2012 at 6:09 PM #

    In what dreamworld arena do fans not use profanity?

    I would also like to think that MG would have gone apeshit and gotten tossed had he seen Lo get shoved. I know I would have.

    Does anyone know the name of the ref who assaulted our student athlete?

  10. tuckerdorm1983 02/18/2012 at 6:09 PM #

    top 10 comments apparently that will get you tossed out by Carl Hess

    10 “my goodness”
    9 “oh dear”
    8 “come on ref!!”
    7 ” call a foul on the other team why don’t ya”
    6 “are you blind ref”??
    5 “my good man would you please call a foul”
    4 “did you swallow your whistle”
    3 “how much is the other team paying you”
    2 “you need glasses ref”
    1 “go wolfpack”

  11. Staffinfection 02/18/2012 at 6:10 PM #

    I have since talked to several other ‘affiliated’ folks that were near the incident. What Primacy posted above is exactly what I have heard from every one of those people. It seems to be a case of KARL not being able to take the heat for his ineptness and reacted very childishly.

  12. Rochester 02/18/2012 at 6:12 PM #

    Tucker, you forgot “Go Wolfpack!” I think that’s the No. 1 comment that pisses off the Hessian soldier.

  13. tuckerdorm1983 02/18/2012 at 6:13 PM #

    i fixed it Rochester

  14. BJD95 02/18/2012 at 6:13 PM #

    Seriously…a ref complained about looking at the dance team? Why else would the dance team be there?

    This is the most bizarre set of circumstances I’ve ever heard of. And this wasn’t even a tense game – at no point in the second half was it even a real contest.

    Must be really sensitive about Thursday’s screw job and our fans calling out the blue conspiracy.

  15. 74wolf 02/18/2012 at 6:14 PM #

    BJD95 Says:
    February 18th, 2012 at 6:09 pm In what dreamworld arena do fans not use profanity?

    Answer: MOST

  16. packpowerfan 02/18/2012 at 6:16 PM #

    Glad I wasn’t at the game. As a student I tended to get a wildly overzealous with what I yelled at the refs. I distinctly remember saying something during the NIT game against Marist (I was a Freshman, and I camped the night before, then waited in line for 6 hours on game day, and I was rewarded with front row seats on the floor) that was profane enough that the entire scorers table turned around with looks like I had opened fire in a preschool. Needless to say, the referee laughed it off and I wasn’t tossed.

    The idea that anything short of a legitimate threat or throwing things on the court could get you ejected is preposterous.

  17. tuckerdorm1983 02/18/2012 at 6:20 PM #

    people say that coach K is one foul mouth coach. Not that I oppose foul language. I kinda like it and even find it appropriate in many circumstances. However, I have never seen Coach K ejected for it. I know the players use it on the court. The other night the cut off the sound because the Duke students were yelling bullshit. I can’t remember seeing a ref toss a fan. This is all very strange. I love to hear comments from the two fellas whose jersey’s hang in the rafters.

  18. BJD95 02/18/2012 at 6:20 PM #

    Just from the TV, I’ve audibly heard the “bullshit” chant in 12 of 12 ACC arenas. So…I think that most is highly inaccurate.

    Exactly, packpowerfan – threats or throwing things (neither of which any sane member of society should ever do) should be the only way to get tossed.

  19. Wulfpack 02/18/2012 at 6:21 PM #
  20. TheCOWDOG 02/18/2012 at 6:21 PM #

    Well, the email box over there is on auto pilot.

    Do you know how much I despise rabbit eared officials ?

    And to add grandstanding to the mix…just the absolute worst.

    BTW Hess can be and should be blackballed.

  21. tjfoose1 02/18/2012 at 6:22 PM #

    74wolf Says:
    February 18th, 2012 at 6:14 pm
    BJD95 Says:
    February 18th, 2012 at 6:09 pm In what dreamworld arena do fans not use profanity?

    Answer: MOST

    So… in your world, not a single utterance of profanity is ever spoken in MOST arenas?

    Wow, what planet is that? Sounds like a nice place to visit.

  22. tuckerdorm1983 02/18/2012 at 6:22 PM #

    I hear that coach k is a foul mouth coach and I never have seen him ejected. The players use foul language on the court. The other night the Duke Students were yelling “Bull S@#t”. I want to hear straight from the horses mouth from the two fellas whose jeresys hang in the rafters.

  23. 74wolf 02/18/2012 at 6:24 PM #

    I’m sure the BS chant usually originates in the student section. Expecting ADULTS to behave with a modicum of class is unrealistic?

  24. tjfoose1 02/18/2012 at 6:26 PM #

    Scott Wood with another zinger…

    Caulton Tudor @CaultonTudor Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
    NCS Scott Wood on ejections of Corchiana & Gugliotta: “They probably said ‘Go State!'”

  25. Staffinfection 02/18/2012 at 6:26 PM #

    I have been in the player hallway during SEVERAL of K’s meltdowns!!! It would make a drunkin’ sailor blush. (No offense to anyone)

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