Karl Hess tosses NC State legends out of the game [4:50 pm Update]


In another slap in the face to NC State, one of the “top” ACC officials decided to throw Tom Gugliotta and Chris Corchiani out of the basketball game.

Welcome to another example of how awful the Atlantic Coast Conference has become and little league officials value NC State and our heritage and history.

Can you ever imagine Michael Jordan being kicked out of a game at the Dean Dome? Or Christian Laettner getting kicked out of a game at Cameron?

Today Karl Hess took his insanity one step further and joined the NC State officiating Hall of Fame alongside legends like Rick Hartzell, Larry Rose, Roger Ayers, Lou Bello, John Clougherty (at Maryland in 2000) and many, many others when he chose to eject NC State legends Tom Gugliotta and Chris Corchiani from the RBC Center in front of 16,000 fans and a regional television audience. Pack Pride is reporting that Hess apparently asked security to eject a student a few plays earlier for saying “You Suck,” but was told that isn’t enough of a reason.

In my opinion, the first amendment of the US Constitution provides that there is almost there NOTHING that a fan can say at a game that should warrant an ejection by an official – absent credible threats of physical violence or attempts at starting violence. Since the game ended, Corchiani and Gugliotta have stated that they did not even utter an ounce of profanity.

[4:20pm Update] As I was writing that^ exact paragraph, the national blog, Deadspin was agreeing with me and posted the following comments in this entry.

Retired NBA star Tom Gugliotta was ejected by referee Karl Hess in the second half of of North Carolina State’s home loss to Florida State today.

We don’t know yet what it was Googs said to get the thumb, but CBS’s Matt Norlander reports the former Wolfpack star (along with another former NBA player and NCSU alum Chris Corchiani) was ejected by Hess.

RBC Center is owned by a public corporation, and North Carolina State is a public school. Thus, free speech rules apply. Unless Gugliotta was threatening to commit a crime or engaging in speech that could injure others (i.e. “Fire!”) he has the right to sit there and say anything he wants. It’s protected speech. [ACC Network]

Since the game ended, Corchiani tweeted the following from his account @Chris_Corchiani:

Karl”rabbit ears” Hess didn’t like the fact Googs and I told him he was having a bad day, inconsistent, and telling the truth. #horribleness

..and, since all of this has been written…we ran across the following comments from “SeaBarrister” on Pack Pride’s message forums:

I believe there may be 1st Amendment issue here… (I’ve been thinking about this ever since the Presby fan was thrown out of the Dean Dome.)

Googs and Corch were removed by an RPD police officer who was exercising the police power of the state (due either to the fact that he was executing duties in his role as a law enforcement officer, or as an agent of the state contracting to a state institution – NC State). The RBC (or PNC) Center is at least a limited public forum for speech (the state even provides “cheer” leaders). Throwing out a patron based on what was said, is a content based restriction of speech (at best) or a viewpoint non-neutral restriction at worst. (is it all commentary on officiating, or just negative commentary that will get you tossed). As such the restriction must survive a strict scrutiny analysis to be valid (threats, “fire” in a crowded building, etc.. would pass such scrutiny, “Karl Hess, you ******* suck” would not.)

Certainly the offending behavior is not about the colorful language, else Coach K would never make it to the first TV timeout – neither would most players for that matter.

The only remaining question is whether or not a patron waives his first amendment rights by utilizing the “seat license.” I’m certain that the school officials believe that he does, but I’m not so sure. First, the freedom of speech is a fundamental right and may not be waivable at all. Second, if there is an ability to waive these rights, it seems that such a waiver must be expressly granted. I’m sure that you wont find a signed document from Corch or Googs (or the Presby Fan) that indicates their agreement not to tell Karl Hess what a ******-nozzle he is.

If I were @Mark_Gottfried and Debbie Yow, the following steps would be taken

(1) @Chris_Corchiani and Googs would have their asses in those EXACT SEATS for the last two games of the season if not all of next season.

(2) A review of free speech policies and security responsibilities of the RBC Staff and Raleigh Police Department will be had.

(3) Karl Hess would never be allowed to officiate another NC State basketball game. Period. Ever. Anywhere. We simply DO NOT take the court if Hess is assigned to the court. If John Swofford doesn’t like it, then we will force the issue.

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About Rick

1992 and 2002 graduate from NCSU. Born and raised an NCSU fan. I remember the good ol' days and they weren't in the last 20 years.

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184 Responses to Karl Hess tosses NC State legends out of the game [4:50 pm Update]

  1. robzucc 02/18/2012 at 5:23 PM #

    I sent Debbie Yow an email just a few minutes ago. Here it is:

    Debbie,

    I have been in the Wolfpack family for over 40 years and I have this feeling, as I’m sure you do, that we are being singled out in every manner possible–whether on the court or in the stands. I believe in you and I believed in your sister, and I know you will do the right thing.

    It is pretty sad that I even have to write this email. I hope you can make whoever is in charge understand that we are no red-headed stepchild to anyone in this conference.

    Thank you,

  2. Ed89 02/18/2012 at 5:23 PM #

    Anyone got a clip on the assault on Lo?

  3. Hungwolf 02/18/2012 at 5:24 PM #

    Everyone in my section at the game was shocked. I saw Norm Sloan take the microphone and have someone removed but never seen an officail have someone removed for no legit reason. Normally people are removed if they throw something on the floor or something like that. The Duke crowd yells curse words the whole game. This is inexcusable. The action taken by Hess validated how bad a ref he is and clearly that the ACC Officials are aware of the fact that ACC fans at NCSU and other schools outside of Chapel Hill are clearly aware of their bias.

    Yow should move every former player, and school admin to courtside seats for every game the rest of the season. We need to make a statement. Students should wear ref shirts with huge glasses to games. We need to make a statement as fans!!!!

  4. nycfan 02/18/2012 at 5:27 PM #

    Hess appears to have been out of line but don’t thnk this is a first amendment issue. A ticket is a revocable license to attend the game and as a general rule can be revoked by the issuer at will.

    Nonetheless, a head-scratcher, at best, and could result in an otherwise unearned upside from a non-effort against FSU, as the carry-over from attention to this could result in some apologetic home cooking calls against UNC.

  5. tjfoose1 02/18/2012 at 5:31 PM #

    ” A ticket is a revocable license to attend the game and as a general rule can be revoked by the issuer at will.”

    Karl Hess is not the issuer.

    He is working as an agent of the conference, to govern and enforce rules on the court between the game participants and staff.

    Hi’s authority does not extend to the stands and concourse.

    If Yow, Gott, or another NCSU official had requested a fan be removed, you might have an argument, but not in this case.

  6. StateFans 02/18/2012 at 5:33 PM #

    KARL HESS DID NOT ISSUE THE TICKET.

    And, if he has the right to summarily impact the decisions of the issuer then we have more issues.

  7. tjfoose1 02/18/2012 at 5:34 PM #

    ESPN:

    http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7589697/tom-gugliotta-chris-corchiani-ejected-stands-nc-state-florida-state-game

    The media will press Swofford’s office for an explanation. SI and ESPN are already all over it. Andy Katz is already pressing ACC associate commissioner Karl Hicks on the issue. With Gott’s relationship, I’m thinking ESPN won’t let this one go.

    Hess is probably starting to realize he really stepped in it this time. He’s keeping his mouth shut and running from the media vs his normal SOP of primping and preening for TV time.

  8. wolfy85 02/18/2012 at 5:34 PM #

    What’s the best way to send Swofford an email? Can someone send me a link or provide some help. After thursday and today i feel it’s necessary.

  9. Old MacDonald 02/18/2012 at 5:34 PM #

    From Andy Katz Twitter:

    Karl Hess ejects NC State alumni Tom Gugliotta,Chris Corchiani from crowd. ACC declines comment. Hess needs to answer why. Weak he won’t.

  10. Wulfpack 02/18/2012 at 5:37 PM #

    The police officer asked Googs and Corch to leave after Hess ordered it. Not sure how that factors in. This is going to be a huge story (already is). Hopefully our guys can rally around it.

  11. StandUpAndHowl 02/18/2012 at 5:38 PM #

    “You aren’t seriously comparing them to Jordan are you?”

    Why not compare Corch and Googs to Jordan? Corch and Googs are *our* legends, Jordan is someone else’s legend.

  12. TLeo 02/18/2012 at 5:39 PM #

    I think tj just hit it….I can’t see how a ref’s authority extends to the stands and seems to me that indeed only a agent or rep of RBC or the school would have the power to eject any fans.
    Yow and MG should also puiblicly and loudly denounce these clowns masquerading as referees and the head clown, Swofford. Then when the league tries to fine either, the Universityushould tell them to stick their fine up their A** and refuse to pay it and refuse to play any games being officiated by Hess or the clown who shoved Brown.

  13. tjfoose1 02/18/2012 at 5:40 PM #

    “The police officer asked Googs and Corch to leave after Hess ordered it.”

    Yep, that’s what happened. So now Hess is assuming state police powers?

    Did Hess just direct a State police officer to remove a free citizen from a public arena? Someone explain to me how an NCAA basketball official has that right? From where did he get this authority?

    The “issuer of the ticket” and representatives of the arena have the authority to direct safety and security personnel, not a participant of the event on the court… and that’s all Hess is (in spite of his allusions of grandeur), merely a participant of the event on the court.

  14. tuckerdorm1983 02/18/2012 at 5:47 PM #

    look at the video. There is a woman with a a small child next to Googs and two little kids up and behind him that must be 5 to 7 years old. Two young girls with glasses sitting next to Corch. Do you really think they would use that kind of language around those kids. I doubt it. Neither are like that. I would love to talk to one of the three men sitting directly behind them. Does anyone know them or any of these people??

    Can anyone read lips and tell me what Googs said as he exited?

  15. Wulfpack 02/18/2012 at 5:50 PM #

    TJ, perhaps you misunderstood. I am not saying Hess has that power – just filling in the gaps with the facts as they develop as this fact was missing from the discussion/analysis. I see it has been added into the entry as an update. I doubt it was the officer that ordered it – looks as if it were Hess. The officer just complied, as did Googs and Corch. Such a strange situation.

  16. tuckerdorm1983 02/18/2012 at 5:51 PM #

    I think it is Corch’s two daughters and wife beside him. Her picture is on facebook.

  17. LRM 02/18/2012 at 5:52 PM #

    Whenever Hess officiates, you hear his name about as often as the two coaches or the leading scorers. There’s something inherently wrong with that.

  18. 74wolf 02/18/2012 at 5:54 PM #

    To me, there are two questions…
    1. What did Googs and Corch actually say? If obscene or profane, security should have escorted them out after a complaint from nearby fans. (anybody with young kids with them does not appreciate obscene or profane language in a public venue with kids present)
    2. By what authority does a referee force the removal of any fan in any venue? Seems to me Hess should have consulted with MG and requested his intervention, if indeed it was all that bad…

  19. djackson1125 02/18/2012 at 5:54 PM #

    This is NCSU. We get pushed around and nobody ever does anything about it… ever! Things like this happen to us a lot because WE LET THEM HAPPEN! Let’s get angry SFN!

  20. IamGumbyDammit 02/18/2012 at 5:55 PM #

    Here is how I think NC State should address the matter. Next time Karl Hess shows up to work a game, right before they throw the opening toss, NC State officials should have him ejected from the building.

  21. Old MacDonald 02/18/2012 at 5:55 PM #

    Eyewitness account from a PP poster:

    I don’t know what Corch and Googs did, of course.  I do know that during a timeout on the FSU possession before the ejection, Hess came over to a Raleigh police officer at the end of the FSU bench and talked to him for some time.  He pointed to midcourt while talking to the officer.  The officer did not seem to know what to do at that point.  Ultimately, an NCSU assistant AD that I recognize but whose name I do not know (tall, black man who always dresses impeccably), came over to the officer.  They spoke for a minute and the AAD went back toward midcourt.  The game restarted and I focused on that and did not see whether the AAD spoke to Corch and Googs.  Next possession, Hess threw them out.

  22. Staffinfection 02/18/2012 at 5:56 PM #

    As you may (or may not) be able to tell from my login name, I am at the RBC Center very frequently (not just for BB games). I know and interact with most of the people that sit at the scorers table and broadcast table. I talked to two of those folks after the game during the event changeover. Both stated they heard EVERY word from Chris and Googs. They also stated neither used a single word of profanity or anything threatening, or that should be considered truly inflammatory… other than basically “Ref, you suck!”

  23. TheCOWDOG 02/18/2012 at 5:56 PM #

    “The AD and Chancellor can. And must.”
    Absolutey correct, BJD.

    Even this jaded old jock got into the mix. CC’d both Yow and Woodson.

    I am personally affronted by the actions today.

  24. nycfan 02/18/2012 at 5:56 PM #

    I seem to recall beaeng some years ago in a game that fans wer throwing things on the court that the rf has the authority to toss spectators but the ACC should address the issue.

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