Karl Hess tosses NC State legends out of the game [4:50 pm Update]


In another slap in the face to NC State, one of the “top” ACC officials decided to throw Tom Gugliotta and Chris Corchiani out of the basketball game.

Welcome to another example of how awful the Atlantic Coast Conference has become and little league officials value NC State and our heritage and history.

Can you ever imagine Michael Jordan being kicked out of a game at the Dean Dome? Or Christian Laettner getting kicked out of a game at Cameron?

Today Karl Hess took his insanity one step further and joined the NC State officiating Hall of Fame alongside legends like Rick Hartzell, Larry Rose, Roger Ayers, Lou Bello, John Clougherty (at Maryland in 2000) and many, many others when he chose to eject NC State legends Tom Gugliotta and Chris Corchiani from the RBC Center in front of 16,000 fans and a regional television audience. Pack Pride is reporting that Hess apparently asked security to eject a student a few plays earlier for saying “You Suck,” but was told that isn’t enough of a reason.

In my opinion, the first amendment of the US Constitution provides that there is almost there NOTHING that a fan can say at a game that should warrant an ejection by an official – absent credible threats of physical violence or attempts at starting violence. Since the game ended, Corchiani and Gugliotta have stated that they did not even utter an ounce of profanity.

[4:20pm Update] As I was writing that^ exact paragraph, the national blog, Deadspin was agreeing with me and posted the following comments in this entry.

Retired NBA star Tom Gugliotta was ejected by referee Karl Hess in the second half of of North Carolina State’s home loss to Florida State today.

We don’t know yet what it was Googs said to get the thumb, but CBS’s Matt Norlander reports the former Wolfpack star (along with another former NBA player and NCSU alum Chris Corchiani) was ejected by Hess.

RBC Center is owned by a public corporation, and North Carolina State is a public school. Thus, free speech rules apply. Unless Gugliotta was threatening to commit a crime or engaging in speech that could injure others (i.e. “Fire!”) he has the right to sit there and say anything he wants. It’s protected speech. [ACC Network]

Since the game ended, Corchiani tweeted the following from his account @Chris_Corchiani:

Karl”rabbit ears” Hess didn’t like the fact Googs and I told him he was having a bad day, inconsistent, and telling the truth. #horribleness

..and, since all of this has been written…we ran across the following comments from “SeaBarrister” on Pack Pride’s message forums:

I believe there may be 1st Amendment issue here… (I’ve been thinking about this ever since the Presby fan was thrown out of the Dean Dome.)

Googs and Corch were removed by an RPD police officer who was exercising the police power of the state (due either to the fact that he was executing duties in his role as a law enforcement officer, or as an agent of the state contracting to a state institution – NC State). The RBC (or PNC) Center is at least a limited public forum for speech (the state even provides “cheer” leaders). Throwing out a patron based on what was said, is a content based restriction of speech (at best) or a viewpoint non-neutral restriction at worst. (is it all commentary on officiating, or just negative commentary that will get you tossed). As such the restriction must survive a strict scrutiny analysis to be valid (threats, “fire” in a crowded building, etc.. would pass such scrutiny, “Karl Hess, you ******* suck” would not.)

Certainly the offending behavior is not about the colorful language, else Coach K would never make it to the first TV timeout – neither would most players for that matter.

The only remaining question is whether or not a patron waives his first amendment rights by utilizing the “seat license.” I’m certain that the school officials believe that he does, but I’m not so sure. First, the freedom of speech is a fundamental right and may not be waivable at all. Second, if there is an ability to waive these rights, it seems that such a waiver must be expressly granted. I’m sure that you wont find a signed document from Corch or Googs (or the Presby Fan) that indicates their agreement not to tell Karl Hess what a ******-nozzle he is.

If I were @Mark_Gottfried and Debbie Yow, the following steps would be taken

(1) @Chris_Corchiani and Googs would have their asses in those EXACT SEATS for the last two games of the season if not all of next season.

(2) A review of free speech policies and security responsibilities of the RBC Staff and Raleigh Police Department will be had.

(3) Karl Hess would never be allowed to officiate another NC State basketball game. Period. Ever. Anywhere. We simply DO NOT take the court if Hess is assigned to the court. If John Swofford doesn’t like it, then we will force the issue.

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About Rick

1992 and 2002 graduate from NCSU. Born and raised an NCSU fan. I remember the good ol' days and they weren't in the last 20 years.

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184 Responses to Karl Hess tosses NC State legends out of the game [4:50 pm Update]

  1. Rick 02/18/2012 at 4:37 PM #

    “You aren’t seriously comparing them to Jordan are you?”

    How is the comparison not valid? I am not saying they are the same athletically but that they mean similar things to the fan bases.

  2. wolfy85 02/18/2012 at 4:37 PM #

    Was at the game and was absolutely shocked when Googs and Corch were escorted out. That had to have been one of the weirdest things i’ve ever seen. I turned to my wife and immediately said how the earth would stop turning, the sun stop shining, hell would freeze over, and Jesus would return before any well known former player at UNC or Dook would ever get booted. NO RESPECT at all for our University.

    Can someone post the Lo Brown incident, couldn’t see well at the game.

    Go Pack! Let’s find a new home.

  3. millionbubbles 02/18/2012 at 4:42 PM #

    Was there a bad call just prior to this? Any speculation as to what caused this?

  4. Ed89 02/18/2012 at 4:42 PM #

    If you have a problem with saying Jordan…how about throwing out both James Worthy and Sam Perkins at the same time. Can you EFFING imagine. Damn, some effing heads better roll…I have witnessed Hess’s bullshit for years. I distinctly remember him “challenging” one of our player in the RBC after he’d called a foul…literally ran over to him and dared him to say a word. I think it was Sid’s first or second year.

    He should never, EVER, do an NC State game again. PERIOD. If the ACC has any respectability, he will be IMMEDIATELY Suspended!

  5. packplantpath 02/18/2012 at 4:43 PM #

    “Was there a bad call prior to this”

    HA, that’s funny right there. Yep, it’s called the “first half”

    🙂

  6. Wufpacker 02/18/2012 at 4:45 PM #

    stillapackfan Says:
    You aren’t seriously comparing them to Jordan are you?

    Not sure of your point here. Perhaps we should save our disgust for when DT gets tossed?

  7. wolfy85 02/18/2012 at 4:46 PM #

    Scott Woo had been tackled while shooting a 3 for about the 5th time in the game and it was called for the first time by one of the Zebras. I was assuming something about that was said and about how they finally whistled it. RIght after that Hess went over and threw them out.

  8. tuckerdorm1983 02/18/2012 at 4:48 PM #

    look folks, we have a lot of problems on our team with respect to personnel. We are getting a lot of frustration fouls. We don’t have a center and no one that can play the post. All of our big men shoot facing the basket. Wood can’t get his own shot. Howell can rebound, but is too small and can’t jump high enough to put his shot pack in. Brown cannot hit the three. CJW is good player, but not consistently outstanding. No one doubles any of our players. Until the personnel come into the program to end that we will have defeats like this.

  9. Ed89 02/18/2012 at 4:49 PM #

    ^ Agreed. And so should every NC State fan everywhere. Karl Hess should be immediately suspended from EVERY ACC basketball game and should never be able to do ANOTHER NC State game EVER.

    Okay, let’s just say — for arguments sake it was James Worthy and Sam Perkins…that may be a little more accurate of an analogy…Can you imagine the backlash from that??

  10. EasternWakeWolf 02/18/2012 at 4:50 PM #

    tuckerdorm,
    I agree with you. But we shouldn’t have to play 8 on 5 every time we take the floor.

  11. wolfy85 02/18/2012 at 4:51 PM #

    “look folks, we have a lot of problems on our team with respect to personnel. We are getting a lot of frustration fouls. We don’t have a center and no one that can play the post. All of our big men shoot facing the basket. Wood can’t get his own shot. Howell can rebound, but is too small and can’t jump high enough to put his shot pack in. Brown cannot hit the three. CJW is good player, but not consistently outstanding. No one doubles any of our players. Until the personnel come into the program to end that we will have defeats like this.”

    We understand all of that, but the issue here is Respect for our school. It was made clear today by Hess that their is none. We didn’t play well enough to win and that disappointed me, but kicking out these legends was downright disgusting. What a B*tch of a thing to do.

  12. Ed89 02/18/2012 at 4:54 PM #

    I think the thread is about the A-hole Hess throwing out 2 NC State legends! Not what a shitty job he did. That is a given. He’s pitiful, and clearly does not like State. I mentioned earlier he ran and stared down one of our players about 3-4 years ago in the RBC. Can remember who, but it was the Carowhina game…

  13. tjfoose1 02/18/2012 at 4:58 PM #

    Emailed Yow immediately after game. Response:

    “Gathering facts.”

  14. StateFans 02/18/2012 at 5:02 PM #

    Comments with profanity get stuck in our spam filter…we are going to be loose with the approvals today.

  15. LifeLongWolf 02/18/2012 at 5:04 PM #

    Most importantly, is there video or eyewitness accounts of EXACTLY what was said to Hess? If so, I will repeat that to him every time I am at a game he refs.

  16. tjfoose1 02/18/2012 at 5:05 PM #

    Google Hess. His actions are decried by coaches, fanbases, journalists, and TV commentators across the nation. Why is he allowed to continue to officiate college basketball games?

  17. Ed89 02/18/2012 at 5:06 PM #

    How about Swofford and Clougherty? Have they responded? They need to be barraged. This should come down on them, not Yow. Don’t barrage her inbox as much as theirs. This needs to “hurt” the ACC.

  18. tjfoose1 02/18/2012 at 5:08 PM #

    I doubt anything Corch and Googs said could be any worse than coach K’s normal game ‘dialog’, and coach K is under the direct authority of the officials (not a fan in the stands). When was the last time he was ejected?

  19. BJD95 02/18/2012 at 5:09 PM #

    A fan can’t impact the head of officiating or the ACC commish. The AD and Chancellor can. And must.

  20. Howler 02/18/2012 at 5:12 PM #

    Need to find out exactly what the offending words were, and compare to all of K’s outbursts, to show the level of hypocrisy. The more I reflect on this, the more I realize that this is a HUGE deal.

  21. tjfoose1 02/18/2012 at 5:13 PM #

    Part of me wishes the tossing of Corch and Googs would have been the tipping point for Gott, and he would have just taken the team off the court for “safety reasons”. Make two points with one action.

    We could use Roy to defend the move, as the league’s lack of action against unx’s early exit at FSU set the precedent, while simultaneously directing the national spotlight and focus on ACC officiating and Karl Hess.

  22. ncsustash 02/18/2012 at 5:14 PM #

    I am not sure free speech applies. The rbc is not public property. There is a code of conduct for the rbc center much like Carter Finley. By entering the venue you give up some rights (you get searched). As a former NCAA soccer ref, I have seen spectators thrown out but it took a lot (cussing around kids).

  23. Howler 02/18/2012 at 5:17 PM #

    I hope DY will encourage Corch and Googs to sit in those exact seats against UNC

  24. BJD95 02/18/2012 at 5:18 PM #

    The assault on Lo…never seen anything like that.

  25. Wulfpack 02/18/2012 at 5:22 PM #

    Never heard of fans being kicked out of an arena unless they were a threat to others (for exampled, throwing objects or fighting in the stands).

    I didn’t think much of the shove as the game happened, then saw the blog a few minutes ago. Lo didn’t seem to respond to it, but it was wrong. Not sure what is going on. We have a lot of catching up to do, if you know what I mean. I’d rather just start in the SEC, tired of this BS.

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