ACC Halfway Review

Since State has reached the half-way point of its ACC season, I thought we would take another look around the ACC and summarize where everyone is. Here are the ACC standings, RPI rankings, and performance versus RPI Top-50 after Wednesday’s games.

Bubble definitions justified here.

If you went back and compared these standings to those just before the ACC season started, you would see that VT and FSU swapped places and not much else has changed. For today’s closer look, the bottom half of the conference isn’t worth discussing and I don’t want to talk about the Blues, so that leaves four teams to discuss:

FSU

With just a quick look at the various schedules, FSU looks like it is in the running for the toughest ACC schedule this year. Even if I’m wrong, they have quite the remaining schedule: Duke, UVA (2x), UM (2x), and NCSU…which means that FSU only has three games against the bottom half of the ACC over their last nine ACC games.

If you ignore FSU’s (ie Leonard Hamilton’s) history, then you would conclude that FSU had a chance to really pump up their RPI since most of their remaining schedule is against good, but not great teams. Time will tell how well they do, but with wins over UNC and Duke they should be in a position that they could coast into the NCAAT.

UVA

Their ACC schedule ranks among the easiest to date and their OOC schedule was no great shakes since they have only played two games so far against RPI Top 50 teams. Their win against Michigan in the ACC/B10 challenge is really nice, but it’s starting to get a little lonely.

Finishing up the year, UVA plays UNC and FSU twice. They could lose all four and still have a pretty good ACC record….but they wouldn’t like where that would land them.

Miami

Based on past experience, I keep expecting Miami to wither away. They don’t have any Top 50 wins, but they have played a reasonably good schedule and the loss to State is their worst so far. So how good (or how bad) Miami does is completely up to them.

I believe that for the vast majority of teams, you are who you record says you are. Their remaining games @ Duke, @FSU, and UNC will pretty much define who they are.

State

You would need a mighty precise micrometer to tell the difference between State and Miami at this point in the season. State has the head-to-head win over UM, but that means exactly nothing when it comes to Selection Sunday. The three game stretch against UNC, FSU, and Duke will pretty much define who State is this year.

State’s position with respect to the NCAAT Bubble has gotten a lot of discussion going on both the main blog and in the forums. I’ve been pleasantly surprised at the vast majority of the comments showing that most posters here are basing their comments on reality as opposed to the delusional rants that so often appear on the internet. My guess is that a regular season win against one of the top three teams and then an ACCT win on Friday against either FSU or UVA (along with plenty of wins against the bottom half of the ACC) would be the minimum resume to feel good about Selection Sunday.

Overall, I have been pleased by the obvious improvement over the last several years. The real problem is how much room there is between “improved over last year” and “good”. I don’t expect State to make the NCAAT, but I would certainly welcome the opportunity to eat some crow.

Conclusion

There are enough potential wins available for the ACC to put six teams into the NCAAT…but four bids are far more likely. In fact, I would say that the odds of putting only three into the NCAAT are better than putting six in (ie I’m not all that impressed with UVA). In any case, if the real world maintains just the normal amount of hassle (as opposed to the hell of the last week), we’ll take one more look at the bubble before the ACCT starts.

About VaWolf82

Engineer living in Central Va. and senior curmudgeon amongst SFN authors One wife, two kids, one dog, four vehicles on insurance, and four phones on cell plan...looking forward to empty nest status. Graduated 1982

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36 Responses to ACC Halfway Review

  1. WeAreCured 02/03/2012 at 12:27 AM #

    That’s how I see it too. Hopefully, State can pull out a W against UNC or FSU at home. I don’t see them having much of a realistic chance in Derm. I also hope that Miami keeps winning and pulls off an upset of Duke or FSU so that they’re a top 50 team when me meet them again in Raleigh. That would be a big boost. Let’s hope for the best for our guys, Stanford, Indiana, Vanderbilt, Texas, and Miami (until we play them, of course), and the worst for Virginia. In the past 3 games, I haven’t seen much from State that makes me think they’re an NCAA Tournament team, but I’m pleased overall.

    Thanks for the graphic.

  2. wufpup76 02/03/2012 at 12:53 AM #

    Thanks so much for putting all of this together. Always exciting each season, doubly so this season since State is at least ‘around’ the bubble.

    If we could find a way to get to 10-6 with at least one good win (FSU, UNx, Duke) and complete the sweep of Miami we would stand a chance going into the ACC tournament. Win on Thursday (if necessary) and a must win on Friday, and we’re right there. 10-6 would also mean that we would have at least 4 conference road victories … Quite an improvement for this team/program.

    An interesting number to me from the table above is that we have had as many games to this point against the RPI Top 25 as have FSU and UNx. Of course we are 0-4 whereas FSU and UNx are each 2-2. I like the way our schedule has shaken out this season … Very encouraged on this front under Coach Gott.

  3. Dogbreath 02/03/2012 at 6:02 AM #

    We’d be 2-6 right now with Lowe, so anything we get from here on is gravy.

  4. hball57 02/03/2012 at 6:27 AM #

    Of the three big games left, I think the best chance of victory is Duke, contrary to the prevailing opinion. Obviously the UNC match up is difficult, and FSU is tough if they are going to score. Regardless of Duke RPI, they are the most flawed team above us. They don’t have great athleticism, not consistent PG play, and inconsistent outside shooting. We also have a week to prepare.

  5. tuckerdorm1983 02/03/2012 at 6:59 AM #

    last year we won 5 conference games, we beat Wake twice, beat GT, Miami and Clemson. We won only 1 road game in the conference against Wake, the weakest team in the ACC went 5-11 and 15-16 overall and didn’t even make the NIT

    lets see we are 5-3 in the conference winning 3 conference games on the road and we are 16-7 overall. We are already qualified or almost qualified for the NIT. I give this coach and staff and team an A plus if you compare it to where they were. If we make that much progress next year we will be in the sweet 16

  6. MattN 02/03/2012 at 7:08 AM #

    General note: for whatever reason, I am able to edit everyone’s comments. So unless you made me a moderator for some reason, I’m pretty sure I shouldn’t be able to click and edit wufpups(and everyone elses) comments. I’m pretty ethical, so I’ll resist that temptation. (I can edit too tuckerdorm1983)

    As for your assessment of our chances, I am in 100% agreement. Our RPI is hovering ~60 and you don’t improve it much by beating teams with a worse RPI than yours. If we want to get into the 40s and have a shot, we absolutely MUST beat Duke or UNC or FSU. That’s the only way we move up. And of course it goes without saying we cannot lose a single game to the 4 below us (2 Techs, Wake, Clemson). The Tech home was was completely devestating to our chances. We don’t have a real GOOD win, but we do have a real BAD loss. The Texas win is not helping us anymore. They are 13-9 and are ranked below us. If it ended right now, Texas would not make the tourney.

    Must do: Win the 5 we should (Wake, Clemson, GTech, VTech, Miami) and one we shouldn’t (UNC, Duke, FSU)

    Must NOT Do: lose one we shouldn’t. All of our slack was gone after the Tech loss. That loss will be held against us on Selection Sunday.

    We could have 21 wins and not go to the NCAA. THAT’S how crappy the ACC is this year….

  7. Wufpacker 02/03/2012 at 7:18 AM #

    I agree with VaWolf that if remaining games play out “the way they should”, the ACC is a four bid league. Essentially that means we need to do something to distinguish ourselves from UVa. We already put ourselves in a hole losing to them at home (not to mention GT), but it is still possible.

    And that’s assuming Miami doesn’t suddenly gel and put us both in their rearview mirror.

  8. 1.21 Jigawatts 02/03/2012 at 7:37 AM #

    If State doesn’t improve their play on the court (the last 3 games have been AWFUL) and get their mojo back then I just don’t see this team finishing anything other than 8-8 (+/- a win). If the team that’s been showing up over the last week keeps coming back we won’t beat the top 3 and I see dropping 2 more against the bottom.

    We look tired physically.
    We look tired mentally.

    One thing I am glad about during the last 2 games is as horrible as we are on offense and dribbling the ball and passing the ball and….forget it….it hasn’t effected our Defense which appears to have stepped up in intensity. I still have reservations though on what’s going on between the ears with most of these players.

  9. Texpack 02/03/2012 at 7:39 AM #

    9-7 is a more likely conference record than 10-6 with both Techs and Clempson on the road. I do have a feeling that it will all come down to a signature win. I see signs that this team is running out of gas which concerns me as well. The GT and UVa games are going to haunt us if we don’t get in, but this team has shown more grit than any State team it the last ten years. That is an excellent start to building a program.

  10. CaptainCraptacular 02/03/2012 at 7:39 AM #

    I don’t think we’re playing well enough right now to sweep the final 3 block: @Clemson, Miami, @VT.

    Expect an egg to be laid in one of those 3. Despite their record, VT has shown flashes. And Miami is very capable of beating us. Watch us beat FSU or Duke, then lose to both Miami and VT.

    I’ll stick with my vote in the poll, which was for 9-7

  11. CaptainCraptacular 02/03/2012 at 7:41 AM #

    All 3 of us posted essentially the same thing there. Gmta.

  12. tuckerdorm1983 02/03/2012 at 8:12 AM #

    change the edit function, I too can edit everyone’s posts.

    Signature win: Beat Duke or UNC

    Don’t lay an egg: I can’t say we won’t, but after the BC game I am alot more worried

    IF Win 5 of the next 8 and IF we come in 4th in the ACC and IF UVA stumbles then we are in BUT IF lose to anybody BUT Duke and UNC then

    If “If and buts were candy and nut oh what a wonderful christmas we would have”. Of maybe “Wish in one hand and *&(* in the other and see which one fills up first”.

  13. VaWolf82 02/03/2012 at 8:52 AM #

    Most of the authors here (including myself) have trouble spelling HTML, so fixing underlying problems has to wait on the real experts. I sent out a call to those experts and I’m sure that they will get to it soon. Thanks to everyone who alerted us to the problem.

  14. Prowling Woofie 02/03/2012 at 8:55 AM #

    If this team can escape until the week break before the Duke game, I’ll feel better about our chances of making a run. The team just looks gassed, especially on offense. They need a day or two of rest.

    I would be thrilled with winning the five we ‘should’, even if it means dropping the three we ‘shouldn’t’. 10-6 after what we’ve lived through recently would be a phenominal turn of events, even if we miss the NCAAT.

    Hang in there, guys. Keep fighting !

  15. howlie 02/03/2012 at 8:58 AM #

    I LIKE moderator power!

    Why don’t we all try this for a week … a ‘new’ kind of board where everyone gets to ‘polish’ everyone else’s replies.
    THE NEW WAVE OF INTERNET!

    Wow! – What Awesome Power this is!

  16. Wulfpack 02/03/2012 at 9:09 AM #

    I haven’t been “impressed” with UVA either, however, I think they will do enough to get in. They are the king at just hanging around – they haven’t been blown out all year – as they play very sound defense and possession offense. They shorten the game because they are short on playmakers (kind of like BC, but UVA actually has guys that can fill the basket). Scott is the All ACC difference maker that can take over a game down the stretch. I think the Cavs will finish with 10 conference wins, which should be enough. So I think we’re going to be that 5th team on the outside looking in, and will need a very solid ACC Tourney performance. I also agree with others that we are trending downwards and need to pick it up fast. A three game sweep to Duke, FSU and UNC could knock us out.

  17. JT 02/03/2012 at 9:09 AM #

    I’m very happy with where the team is at this point. This has all the makings of a successful foundational season. I think the current doldrums will pass, and I see Lo and company finishing strong- we have to remember that they are just now learning how not to suck as a team on this level. I also have to, as always, touch on the general aesthetics of the game- so much better to watch than under previous coaches. State is turning the corner, indubitably.

  18. PackisRolling 02/03/2012 at 9:10 AM #

    I care much more about the games against WF, GT, Clemson, Miami, VT than the FSU, Duke, UNC ones. If we win the ones we should I’m OK with losing to the top 3. What I hate is stumbling against the GTs.

    I think we end up with 9 wins…and one MIGHT be against Duke or FSU. I have a hard time seeing us winning 10 or 11. hope i’m wrong

    me

  19. JEOH2 02/03/2012 at 9:14 AM #

    They are tired…they’ve played a tough schedule OOC…and usually by this time of year they are coasting under the previous regime (and not playing at as high a pace)…mentally, they’ve been through so many highs and lows throughout the season it has got to be tough on them especially when in the past they had NO expectations but have a ton now…I honestly think that this all has been Lo Brown’s problem lately…

    I worry about these last two games before Duke…Wake isn’t good but on a hot night they have the type of players who could put a team on their back and GT knows they can beat us so they’ll at least be confident at “home”

    I’d love for us to get in but, 9-7 looks very probable though with us clearly out at the beginning of ACCT play needing to get to Sat to get back on the bubble and Sun to get in…

  20. Tau837 02/03/2012 at 9:43 AM #

    So who is the All ACC 1st team at the halfway point?

    If the team was chosen today, IMO there are three locks: Scott, Zeller, and Kadji (6th in scoring, 10th in rebounding, 3rd in FGP, 5th in blocks). I don’t think anyone from Duke or State would make it. I’d probably choose Henson (DPOY, 16th in scoring, 7th in FGP) and Stoglin (23.3 ppg) for the final two spots.

    That said, I’m sure things will change over the second half. I expect Scott and Zeller will remain locks, barring injury. I have my doubts that Stoglin can maintain his scoring pace, and I expect he’ll drop out of 1st team contention.

    What is the highest a State player might finish, and who?

  21. UnclePen 02/03/2012 at 10:01 AM #

    I hope that BC game wasn’t indicative of the trend of this team. I agree with Dogbreath that we would be 2-6 under Lowe, but other than a fat man whistling on the court we looked a lot like a Lowe team against the worst team in the conference. So before we look ahead, Wake Forest and GT have an advantage over the team I saw the other night.

    HWSNBN at Arizona State (7-15, 3-7) would be still su%^ing. They got their a#$ beat by Stanford 68-44 last night

  22. BJD95 02/03/2012 at 10:25 AM #

    I would be totally satisfied with this season and staff even with 8 or 9 ACC wins.

    FSU is a bad matchup, we only beat them if they beat themselves. Good news is that they’re eminently capable of that. They won’t be up for us like Carolina will.

    And I continue to believe that Duke is a good matchup for us. As I said before the first Hole game, I would like the odds (given the big payoff) of the following parlay bet – Carolina sweeps State, Duke sweeps Carolina, State beats Duke in Cameron. It’s all about the matchups.

    But like someone said upstream, it’s all moot unless we get over the wall we’ve hit lately. Especially Lo, our one indispenable player.

  23. coach13 02/03/2012 at 10:38 AM #

    How about 9-7 and 2 tournament wins putting the over the top???

  24. PackMan97 02/03/2012 at 10:45 AM #

    Gottfried nailed it when he said it would take 11 wins. Everyone is running the scenarios and still comes up with 11 wins (because we need no more bad losses and we need a marquee victory). I think 10-6 is possible, but it’s on the bubbliest of bubbles.

    As for the team hitting the wall…just a thought here, it seems like we’ve hit that “Freshman” wall that most first year players have to deal with. Could it perhaps be because this is the first year in which our guys have had to push themselves physically in the weight room and on the court? While it’s not fun to watch, it will pay dividends down the road.

  25. PackMan97 02/03/2012 at 10:47 AM #

    coach13, I’m not sure about that. The issue with that is it means we either got to 9-7 with another bad loss and no good wins, or two bad losses and a good win. In the ACC we’d only get one win against a bad team and a good win. I’m not sure that’s enough to offset the extra bad losses.

    10-6 and two wins in the ACC would get us in, I think.

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