Fouls will be the key — your State-Carolina predictions

Sportsbook.com currently has the line on tonight’s game as UNC -13. And Kendall Marshall said that it feels like UNC is the underdog!?! That’s gotta be classic UNC math skills at work!

What are your predictions for tonight’s game? Chime in here with your thoughts.

I am going to predict the following — State loses by 12 points.

Generally, Harrison Barnes or Reggie Bullock have an almost career night. Jon Henson & Tyler Zeller will mysteriously draw many more fouls against our big men than we are able to draw against them despite play that looks very similar.

On the court, I think people have underestimated how many points we’ve been getting from offensive rebounds this year and relatively how few points we’ve allowed from our defensive boards. Unfortunately for us, Carolina is THE BEST rebounding team in the country and that takes a big chunk out of our strengths. Of course, it is very easy to be aggressive on the boards and on defense when you are NEVER in any kind of foul trouble.

Don’t understand what I mean? Well, the following statistics were generated by a poster named ‘BackThePack7483’ on Pack Pride’s message boards:

Neither Jon Henson nor Tyler Zeller has EVER fouled out of a college basketball game.

Henson has only had 4 fouls twice in three years of playing, while Zeller has been whistled for 4 fouls in a game numerous times but has been able to play through it with no issue and has never been disqualified by receiving a 5th foul.

In fact, the only players on UNC’s roster to ever foul out of a game where: (1) Kendall Marshall who fouled out at the end of the Tar heels blowout loss at Florida State a week and a half ago, and (2) Dexter Strickland, who fouled out a single time last season.

By contrast, the following are the disqualifications of NC State players in their careers:

Scott Wood: 4 times
Calvin Leslie: 2 times
Richard Howell: 3 times
CJ Williams: 3 times
Zo Brown: 2 times
DeShawn Painter: 2 times

From the files of ‘great minds think alike’…as I was typing this entry the N&O’s Caulton Tudor was saying something similar in a more muted manner in this entry on ACCNow.com

The key stat in tonight’s N.C. State at UNC basketball game could be no more complicated than the foul count.

In four of the Wolfpack’s five losses thus far, at least one or two starters got into heavy foul trouble early. The exception was an 88-72 loss to Syracuse.

In the other four losses, here’s the breakdown on the foul front:
•In an 86-79 loss to Vanderbilt, C.J. Williams fouled out and Richard Howell had four.
•In an 86-75 loss to Indiana, Scott Wood fouled out and C.J. Leslie had four.
•In a 76-72 loss to Stanford, Wood and Lorenzo Brown fouled out. Howell and sixth-man DeShawn Painter each had four.
•In an 82-71 loss to Georgia Tech, Leslie fouled while Howell and Wood each had four.

State coach Mark Gottfried uses a seven-man rotation that hinges on a delicate playing time balance. When one player isn’t producing, the entire operation tends to malfunction. Fouls and injuries obviously do inordinate harm to a limited rotation.

“We had a long stretch where we weren’t getting into foul trouble,” Gottfried said earlier this week. “Rich has had some silly fouls, but he’s had some unlucky fouls, too. We just can’t afford a lot of foul trouble.”

With their depth, the Tar Heels feast on fouls.

That situation could change with the loss of Dexter Strickland (knee injury), but through 19 games, UNC has been charged with a modest 264 personals while drawing 416. The payoff is predictably huge _ UNC has gone to the foul line 498 times while its opponents have gone 220 times.

The Wolfpack has been hit for 339 fouls while drawing 355 – a virtual even swap. At the line, the Pack has outscored opponents 416-377 but that’s primarily the result of Wood going 48-48 and Williams 31-36.

State is shooting 75 percent and that’s with Leslie at 61 percent (47-77).

One reason for the seemingly inflated betting line _ UNC favored by 13 points _ is that bookmakers look very carefully at foul patterns. Entering tonight’s game, UNC has had only one player to foul out of a game _ playmaker Kendall Marshall against Florida State.

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11-12 Basketball

45 Responses to Fouls will be the key — your State-Carolina predictions

  1. drspaceman 01/26/2012 at 3:55 PM #

    to do a more nuanced look at this, we should really look at fouls called in the first 35 mins or so of a game. if a team is winning a lot of games, of course they are going to foul more frequently at the end.

  2. Rick 01/26/2012 at 3:56 PM #

    But maybe they just do not play very aggressive. That could account for why they are not called for fouls.

    In offensive rebounds UNC ranks 5th in the nation.
    In blocks they rank 35th.
    In steals they rank 126th.

    But apparently they can do all this without fouling anyone.

  3. Hungwolf 01/26/2012 at 4:16 PM #

    Against ranked teams Scott Wood has a problem getting open, Howell has not been up to the task frequently getting his shot blocked, and Leslie either has been cramping this year or didn’t play smart in the past.

    The outcome of tonights game will depend on Wood getting open, Leslie playing smart and playing the whole game, and maybe letting Painter play more than Howell as I think he matches up better vs UNC. Painter hitting some perimeter shots and opening the lane more for Leslie could be a good approach. Many UNC fans think UNC will struggle with Strickland out. Lets hope so.

    I say we lead with 5 minutes to play then get sloppy with the ball. Lose 75-71 and prove we still not quite ready for prime time. Yet we show we close then beat Va. on Saturday at home!

  4. GAWolf 01/26/2012 at 4:44 PM #

    I’ve been to the end of e Internet and back looking for ref assignments… I find it hard to believe in this day and time there’s no place to find that information before the game.

  5. tuckerdorm1983 01/26/2012 at 4:49 PM #

    SUNSPOTS MEAN WE WIN.

    I watched the 1987 ACC finals UNC-NCSU from the ACC VAULT where we beat those Bastards. There were problems with sun spots and broadcasting. Today and yesterday was massive sun spots. ITS A SURE THING. SUNSPOTS MEAN WE WIN. (I don’t think we have beaten them since then)

    NCSU
    Chucky brown NBA
    The Shack (mr. Amphibious) NBA limited sucess
    Bennie (Left handed) Bolton
    Kelsey (fast as greased lightening) Weems
    Vincent (Vinny) Del Negro NBA
    Quentin Jackson
    Mike Giomi
    Avi Lester
    Walker Lambiotte,
    Kenny Poston,
    Brian Howard
    Tevin Binns

    UNC (8 mcdonald all americans on that team)
    Kenny Smith NBA
    JR (I throw forearms) Reed NBA
    Dave Popson
    Jeff Lebo
    Ranzio Smith
    Joe Wolf
    Scott Williams NBA
    Steve Bucknall

  6. GAWolf 01/26/2012 at 4:51 PM #

    sUNSPOTS…..pure genius.

  7. primacyone 01/26/2012 at 4:53 PM #

    Leslie and Wood have Gott to be avialable to play the entire game.

  8. Texpack 01/26/2012 at 5:04 PM #

    I’ll re-post my 83-75 Hole win prediction here. This is strength vs. strength.

  9. tuckerdorm1983 01/26/2012 at 5:05 PM #

    If you don’t believe me about the sunspots then look at this. You can’t argue with science :

  10. bill.onthebeach 01/26/2012 at 5:05 PM #

    ^GaWolf — Referee names are normally published online about 1 hour before gametime .

    and Sunspots….hmmm…..you could be on to something there.

  11. drspaceman 01/26/2012 at 5:08 PM #

    @GAWolf:
    statsheet has ref assignment stats.

    eg:
    http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/north-carolina-state/referees

  12. bigbel27 01/26/2012 at 5:22 PM #

    Remember this guy, from espn.com college basketball blog

    Free Throw Focus — Julius Mays
    Mays went 19-20 from the free throw line in Wright State’s 69-63 win over UIC, setting a school record for free throws made in a game. It’s the second-most free throws made in a game this season behind 20 from Oregon State’s Jared Cunningham. Mays, a transfer from NC State, finished with a career-high 33 points.

  13. drspaceman 01/26/2012 at 5:23 PM #

    man. nc state has the dayton connection. archie miller in town. julius mays. me.

  14. newt 01/26/2012 at 5:44 PM #

    I broke down this fouls for/against UNC argument several years back using decades of data.

    The “style of play” or “playing with big leads” arguments are ridiculous. I always joke that one day some other coach will figure out that going inside and taking less threes gets you to the foul line more. Amazing other coaches haven’t caught on to that approach yet!

    Fact is that UNC has had that foul/free throw discrepancy for 40 years, every year without fail, through 4 coaches and even losing seasons. No other team has come close to that discrepancy, even Duke, Kentucky, Kansas (UNDER ROY WILLIAMS, THINK ABOUT THAT). etc. Nobody – even in championship seasons.

    Somebody should complain to the ACC office. Oh wait.

  15. mak4dpak 01/26/2012 at 6:12 PM #

    We have got to find a way to get inside, and get their bigs in trouble, with fouls, and we have to stay out of foul trouble, and play smart. If this happens, we just might beat those holes in the Hill. I think Gott will have the team prepared, and hope the team maintains it’s composure.

  16. Hungwolf 01/26/2012 at 6:24 PM #

    newt you are right. Rick barnes figured it out, ran for texas and won’t come back. Others have also. I think it has lots to do with why ACC schools have had a drop off in coaching talent in recent years.

  17. bill.onthebeach 01/26/2012 at 6:31 PM #

    SFN just tweeted tonight’s officials are:

    Karl Hess, Ray Natili and Doug Sermons (sp. Sirmons)
    Sirmons is an SEC official….not on Swofford’s regular payroll.

    These guys average about thirty four (34) fouls a game.

    Could be alot worse: Ayers and Luckie.

    GO PACK !!!

  18. patientwuf 01/26/2012 at 7:14 PM #

    Newt

    Great point. I have another observation to add.

    My wife drug me to the UNC/Miami game 2 weeks ago and it was very apparent that the every Tarheel player(not just bigs) has been coached to jump into their defender on every contested shot. They will always try to create contact and draw a foul.

    Interesting to see how this plays out tonight.

    KICK ASS PACK!!!

  19. pack76 01/26/2012 at 7:20 PM #

    Pack 75
    Holes 71

    GO PACK!!!!

  20. gtspack 01/26/2012 at 7:24 PM #

    I can’t wait to see what kind of motivator Gott is in a rival game. I hope he can work the magic against the holes like TOB can. The only prediction I’m making is S Wood will end his free throw streak tonight. SHOCK ME PACK!!!!

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