Re-Thinking the ACC Pecking Order

As the conference season began, most folks (myself included) thought the hated blues comprised a tier all of their own at the top, with BC, GT, and maybe Wake on the bottom. The vast middle consisted of teams that looked NIT-ish, with the likelihood that a few would do better, and a few do worse than that.

Now, I think somewhat differently. There are five “reasonably good” teams. Those five are UNC, Duke, Florida State, Virginia, and NC State. The remaining seven are all mediocre-to-bad, and although some will likely play in the NIT…nobody seems particularly worthy of even that. You can quibble over sub-pecking orders at the bottom (for example, BC and Wake have horrid athleticism, while GT “boasts” an appalling level of skill), but I wouldn’t be surprised at any result among the “Little Seven.” As we’ve seen, matchups – and simple “getting hot at the right time” – can make all the difference.

However, my eschewing of more typical “tiers” does not mean that the “Reasonably Good Five” are equals. Not at all. But rather than a clear power ranking order, they all have different problems:

Consistent, But Low-Medium Ceilings

Hello, NC State and Virginia. Not surprisingly, these teams just played a very close, but not particularly aesthetic or well-played, one point game (though quite oddly, Virginia played better at NC State’s pace, and vice versa). They take care of business against the bottom seven more than you would expect for their overall talent level – because they are consistent (a testament to their respective coaches). Although these teams could easily make the NCAAT field…nobody would be terrified to see either in their bracket. It would be shocking to see the Pack or Hoos make it past the first weekend.

High Ceilings, Inconsistent

UNC and Florida State reside here. When they are on, they can look incredibly good. But they are their own worst enemy – when they suck, they REALLY suck. And it’s hard to predict whether you will see Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. UNC has the ability to win the national title, and Florida State could make the Elite Eight. But it wouldn’t surprise any astute observer to see them go down in flames much earlier than that.

Extremely Matchup Vulnerable

The subtier of Duke, and Duke alone. The Devils are a highly skilled bunch on offense, with multiple, diverse scoring threats. But they aren’t particularly tough. If you play lockdown defense, you will disrupt their offensive flow. They have no Plan B to work around that, nor are they defensively adept enough to grind out many wins against a decent caliber opponent. Watch the game film against Temple (ugly loss), Florida State (home loss), and UVA (nearly a home loss) and sense a pattern. Duke needs to get extremely lucky with their draw (or for fortuitous results elsewhere in their bracket) to make another Final Four, despite being fairly consistent with their play.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

11-12 Basketball ACC

42 Responses to Re-Thinking the ACC Pecking Order

  1. btownwolfpack 01/30/2012 at 10:30 AM #

    Gott is still right, we make 11-5 and we’re in. Only way to get there is beat one of the top four. The best way in is to win the tourney, which always seems to get passed over. The regular season is PRACTICE, and we are practicing to get better every game! Like this team and the new coach.

  2. Wulfpack 01/30/2012 at 10:57 AM #

    Considering our lack of depth, relying on a 4 day run in the ACC Tourney is a bit optimistic. I’d much rather try to get to 9 or 10 wins and shoot for a 2 or 3 day run in the tourney. Much more reasonable, and certainly not out of question.

  3. ryebread 01/30/2012 at 11:42 AM #

    I agree with a lot of the original post. I think there’s a bit of distance between UNC and the rest of the league. They’re inconsistent, but when they are on they will not lose to anyone in the ACC. They’re clearly our best team.

    Duke IS vulnerable to match ups. Rivers isn’t that good. There’s no real point guard and they don’t play good perimeter defense. They’re a Sweet 16 type of squad.

    FSU is probably our 3rd team. The problem is that they can beat anyone (see UNC/Duke) and then get beaten by anyone (see Harvard/Princeton). They also can get mauled in a grind it out game (see Florida, Michigan State). This is a Sweet 16 team at best.

    NC State and UVA? They’re the other teams that could get in. UVa went a long way towards punch its ticket this past weekend. I think they will get in and will be better when Sene is back.

    NC State? We’re a bubble team and will probably break towards the NIT. We’re just not getting it done, defending the home court, etc.. These are the hallmarks of a classic NIT team. Harrow’s transfer hurt us more than many care to admit. With him, I think we’d be in. Without him? We just don’t have the guard play.

  4. VaWolf82 01/30/2012 at 12:15 PM #

    UVa went a long way towards punch its ticket this past weekend.
    .
    NC State? We’re a bubble team and will probably break towards the NIT.

    If State’s a bubble team (and they are), then UVA’s win did very little towards punching a ticket to the NCAAT unless State can get in the RPI Top-50.

  5. wolfie91 01/30/2012 at 12:47 PM #

    VaWolf82, I would argue that if the ACC gets at least 4 invites (which appears likely), then Virginia’s win over us helps them if for no other reason than it gives them a good shot at finishing 4th.

  6. wolfie91 01/30/2012 at 12:53 PM #

    I would also add that while we’re all anxious for a NCAAT tournament appearance, I do think that something like a 9-7 finish, one win in the ACCT and a high NIT seed shows progress in Gottfried’s first year. When you are tempted to overly critique our first year coach, take a look at what is happening this year with Villanova, Pitt, Zona and Texas. Those coveted coaches are having tough seasons too. Even BD had a couple of NIT teams following the two NC’s.

  7. 61Packer 01/30/2012 at 1:02 PM #

    5 to the NCAA: UNC, Duke, UVA and FSU, and the best from among us, Maryland, Clemson and Miami.

  8. MP 01/30/2012 at 1:36 PM #

    You are speaking of the same Clemson that currently has an RPI of 165?

    And the same Miami that has a mediocre (60-ish) RPI, but lost to us at HOME?

    And the same Maryland that (1) lost to us and (2) has an RPI>100?

    And us…

    The ACC isn’t going to get 5 teams in the NCAAT “just because”.

  9. ryebread 01/30/2012 at 2:50 PM #

    RPIs aside, I think 4 teams from the ACC go this year. When I look at the landscape of college basketball, the ACC looks like a 4 bid league.

    Barring something drastically changing in the second half, UNC and Duke are in. FSU by virtue of beating UNC and Duke has probably already done enough unless they stumble.

    If UVA continues on as a ranked team, then they’ll finish fourth and will be an absolute lock. There’s no way a ranked ACC team with 10+ conference wins doesn’t go, regardless of RPI.

    I think we’re on the outside looking in. We’ve just not had enough “good” wins to hang our hats on. We’ve played the games, but have just missed.

  10. BJD95 01/30/2012 at 3:47 PM #

    Barring a miraculous turnaround, none of the bottom seven has a chance in hell at a bid. Certainly not Maryland.

    Virginia has a reasonable RPI, a very good win (Michigan) and a very respectable road win (us). But they could still lose the bid, and I don’t think State is at all guaranteed to snap it up if that happens. This very well could be a 3 bid league, strange as that may seem.

    Again, in a normal year – State and UVA would barely be in the bubble conversation at all. Just not good enough (by the “eye test”). But the NCAAT will feature some blatant mediocrities, while some absolute monkey shit will end up in the NIT.

  11. tapinpar 01/30/2012 at 4:22 PM #

    Could someone explain one thing to me, because I haven’t been following it that closely?

    One thing I feel like I heard a lot last summer was how great college basketball was going to be this year because of all the great talent that came back due to the impending NBA lockout.

    So… where is all this great college basketball being played???

  12. 61Packer 01/30/2012 at 5:33 PM #

    5 ACC teams will go. The Big East is down this season, and so is the SEC. The Pac-12 is a wasteland. There will be many spots that will be up for grabs. If we go .500 the rest of the season, I think we just might be in.

  13. MP 01/30/2012 at 6:17 PM #

    Well I hope you’re right, and I hope it’s us.

  14. haze 01/31/2012 at 8:53 AM #

    We entered the season with a new coach, a new PG, no consistent big-man threat, minimal perimeter scoring, no hustle, no IQ, no defense & no depth.

    While we’re far from perfect, that our list of outright horrors is now down to no depth and inadequate perimeter scoring is nearly amazing. That we now get to complain about too many fouls (Richard!) or that Deshawn Painter has too much confidence in his J is stunning. That we have anything like a shot at the NCAA’s is a blessing.

    Please, just STAY HEALTHY, KEEP LEARNING and KEEP HUSTLING. We’re not that far away.

  15. ryebread 01/31/2012 at 10:58 AM #

    61Packer: Sorry, but I don’t know if I agree with your assessment. I hope that you are right, but I’m not so sure. I don’t see how the ACC gets more than 4.

    The SEC is better than the ACC this year. Head to head they’ve beaten us up top, in the middle or down low. Just looking at RPI, the SEC has 6 top 40 teams — Kentucky (5), Florida (15), Vandy (26th), Mississippi St. (35), Alabama (36) and Ole Miss (40). Arkansas is lurking at around 60 as well, eerily similar to NC State. I expect the SEC to get at least 5 in.

    The Big 10 is going to gobble up bids this year as well. I think they’re a 7 bid league (now that they have 12 teams), but they currently have 8 teams sitting in the top 50 of RPI. Again, they’ve beaten us head to head pretty soundly.

    The Big East will get more in than we do based solely on the number of number of teams in their league. They currently have 7 teams in the top 35 of the RPI. Notre Dame is floating around at 60, but they have some impressive wins (Syracuse and UConn). Notre Dame will get in before NC State does.

    The Big 12 is down on numbers, but they look like a 4 bid league to me — Baylor, Kansas, Mizzou and K-State. Iowa State and Texas are in about the same spot as we are. Texas as a “name” will get the benefit of the doubt over NC State I’m afraid as they are a big revenue generator.

    Then you’ve got the mid-majors. I see the Mountain West, A10, WCC, the Missouri Valley and Conference USA as multiple bid leagues.

    There’s just not that many bids to go around. I don’t think the ACC has really earned 5 bids.

  16. wolfmanmat 01/31/2012 at 8:05 PM #

    The only way the ACC is getting 5 is if a outside shot wins the ACC tourney. The reason is this(besides having only 4 worthy teams and being fairly weak otherwise): normal low bid conferences have TONS of teams in the top 25. Those “take” spots when say, Murray State/Creighton/SDSU/etc lose in their conference tourney and someone on the outside gets an automatic bid. State at RPI 50 is way out right now and only has 1 quality win all season(Texas). There isn’t a chance unless State beats either Duke/UNC and FSU. Wins vs GT/Miami/BC/Wake ain’t getting you in.

  17. stillapackfan 02/01/2012 at 12:24 AM #

    No one but a State fan would call us a respectable win.

Leave a Reply